kenratboy Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 What does this have to do with Klipsch? NOTHING!!! This is the general area of the forum, so here we are. Forrest2, it's always a plesure having you here. I agree with an above post, it's about what the government should and should not do, not about this one event. Remember, its not today, its next year, 10, 20, 30, ... years from now which I am thinking about. I am young and I have a lot of living to do, I just want to live they way I chose (professional that pays taxes and only speeds as a crime in my tuned Audi...) and keep the government away. The Democrats want to think for us, I want to think for myself. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 "What does this have to do with Klipsch? NOTHING!!! This is the general area of the forum, so here we are." I suggest that you look at the question above regarding your original post. Considering the thousands of leftist/rightist/Christian/Muslim/Buddist/whatever web forums you could expound your ideas on: I do not presume to speak for Klipsch or my fellow Forum Members - I speak for myself when I say - If you wish to play SD Games - Do it on the websites that are intended for SD. This website as near as I am able to determine is intended for the discussion of Klipsch products and related issues. If it aint reasonbly close to being related to audio --- It doesn't belong here --although there are any number of forums where it may be legitimately discussed. defecate in your own sandbox!! - I would have said **** but ...... Murphy has a Dickshunairy!! This message has been edited by lynnm on 06-27-2002 at 11:34 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
force95 Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 lynm didn't you just blow your own post out of the water by even replying!!!! Go forrest!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 quote: Originally posted by forresthump2: And Fini is right. Sometimes I think Horny is speaking in Ewok or something too. Or its like he applies Spanish to English when writing. He Takes 50 words for what can be conveyed in 10. LOL Uh, I was referring to you, fh. fini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 quote: Originally posted by lynnm: Please edit the subject line or delete this thread. we can not delete threads or change subject lines. this can not be done unfortunately. ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Force95 I must assume that you think that I was responding to Forresthump. Actually I was responding to Kenratboy but I suppose it is possible that Kenratboy might have been quoting FH. In any event my opinion stands and you are welcome to your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 28, 2002 Author Share Posted June 28, 2002 I have posted this topic on this forum because most all of the people here qare smart or smart+ and have somthing good to say. The fact that there is over 100 replies here is enough evidence to say this topic is just fine here. End. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 "Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of Mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian."f>s> -- 1892 Supreme Court ruling in Church of the Holy Trinity vs. U.S. (citing 87 precedents)f>s> "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happinessthese firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, "where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice?" And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule indeed extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?f>s> -- From George Washington's Farewell addressf>s> Yes, we from the "Christian Right" are just a bunch of idiots who want to shove our faith down everyone's throat. That's O.K. -- we're in good company. It's NOT what anyone THINKS the Framers meant -- it's about WHAT THEY SAID THEY MEANT. It is almost completely impossible to find one historical document or letter written by any of these men without some reference to God. This country was clearly founded on Christian principles and precepts. These principles were so entrenched in the minds of the Framers, that any attempt to explain or interpret verbiage employed by them in a way deviating from that mindset -- is completely idiotic. One cannot sift out America's Christian Heritage without tearing at the very fabric of what America was based on. If you are an American and are not a Christian, that is clearly your right. If you are an American and do not embrace Christian prinicples, that is also your right. However, don't expect me to sit around and do NOTHING while you advance your agenda of convincing others that religion and Christianity have no place in government. The "Christian Right" did NOTHING for 40 years, and what we got for it was a present day generation of sociopaths. Go, ahead. Keep telling yourself there is no relationship between America thumbing its nose at God and the millions of whacked out, dysfunctional people you're surrounded with. We've been teaching people for 100 years that there is no God, that they came from a pool of Sh!t, and evolved from monkeys -- and we can't figure out why people are offing themselves left and right. Sorry, but I won't be crawling back into my hole anytime soon. Glory be to God in the Highest!f>s> ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> This message has been edited by deang on 06-28-2002 at 12:55 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Fin well then you should learn to write English better. MUHAHAHA I knew from your past smart aleck behavior and worship of Horny. Keveina, Maybe the Folgers (porn star Viagra) is affecting my communications skill but you said exactly what I been trying to say. It will be ruled Secular and not religion though there's nothing in the constitution seperating church and state and that's where the libby judicials are trying to write it in. The Only that have a rights abuse case are the atheists and they just have to learn to adapt. If they think they're God then they can believe One Nation, Under Me when they say it. Athiests are more individualistic anyway. LOL Just as with Christmas, the courts just show that its no longer a religious holiday. Just a cultural event engrained in our history like "In God we Trust". Don't forget Willy Clinton's saying "well if the constitution inhibits the operations of the Government then we must find ways to inhibit the power of the constitution". This is the mindset of too many liberal activists these days like many of the libby judges. They see the Constitution as vague and easily manipulated to rewrite the laws to fit their goals of government running our lives. We cant let them get away with it. ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 The Overview: Mr. HornEd expresses himself with thoughtful intelligence. Certain afflicted individuals not possessing the ability to comprehend him resort to labelling him "liberal". Ergo: "liberal" is another word for thoughtful intelligence. But what is the root of this American subculture which so disdains thoughtful intelligence? It is, I believe, frustration and resentment. The said afflicted individuals have not yet found a way to transcend their family heritage which causes and perpetuates the frustrating impairment of their own intellects. Unfortunately there are so many of these individuals out there now that they have become brazen in the flaunting of their stupidity and close-minded antagonism to actually educating themselves. Because they have grown to such proportions they needed to find a label for themselves and this label is nothing more than a brand burned into their forehead which reads "we hate liberals" which translates as "we cannot think so we hate those who can" (and everything they stand for). They use the word "God" as a bludgeon proving to themselves that hitting someone over the head is superior to the human intellect, they are just that frustrated with their stubbornly impaired intelligence and their inability or fear of transcending the family heritage. By wasting all that energy perpetuating their ignorance they forego most opportunities to learn how to think, which would theoretically be possible, although fairly unlikely after the age of 11. Capitalism eats this up because these individuals ravenously consume junk food along with junk ideas (right wing radio crapola) and put that much more money in the hands of those who know how to profitably manipulate them or use them as convenient and willing cannon fodder. Creative thought is feared almost as much or more than general thoughtful intelligence. The preponderance of creativity in California makes the State a target for their misdirected hate. Again this is nothing more than frustration because their own creativity has been thwarted along with their impaired intelligence. Collecting technological consumer goods is mistakenly thought to be a substitute for the missing intellect. You could train monkeys to buy this stuff and plug the wires together. The point being that this here gathering place is not any kind of predictor of intelligence or creativity. That one sometimes finds it here is just the luck of the draw, eg. a random occurrence from a random sampling of the random cross-section of consumers. Clearly there is no substantial cultural commonality in this forum, which as stated before, is presumably a group of consumers with a brand loyalty. It could just as easily be a group a Jello lovers exchanging recipes. Couldn't help myself.....it is living in this earthquake country .... it's not my fault...... -seismo logic "I've already stated that my God is in the Head of my Unit" Good one FH, it has a nice ring to it. Here is some really perfect stuff, couldn't be any better: The "Christian Right" did NOTHING for 40 years, and what we got for it was a present day generation of sociopaths. Go, ahead. Keep telling yourself there is no relationship between America thumbing its nose at God and the millions of whacked out, dysfunctional people you're surrounded with. We've been teaching people for 100 years that there is no God, that they came from a pool of Sh!t, and evolved from monkeys -- and we can't figure out why people are offing themselves left and right. Sorry, but I won't be crawling back into my hole anytime soon. ...................... {couldn't if you wanted to, way too many monkeys in there already). you have given new meaning to the phrase "monkeys flying out of your butt"..... This message has been edited by Clipped and Shorn on 06-28-2002 at 02:38 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Dean, You are correct. There is certainly a strong historical argument for the use of "God" in the pledge. As you said, this country was clearly founded on Christian principles and precepts. But consideration must be given to the fact that in 2002 America is much more religiously diverse than it was in the 1700's. If one were to accept the logic of your argument, then one must also agree that slavery is ok because there is a historical basis for it. The framers were as much slaveowner as they were christian. Does religion have a place in government? I believe that constitutionally it does not. Congress cannot make a law establishing a religion. The term God is absent from the constitution. Does religion have a place in your life? Yes. And that is great. But Dean..."Yes, we from the "Christian Right" are just a bunch of idiots who want to shove our faith down everyone's throat. That's O.K. -- we're in good company." Come on. Is that the pricipal of "tolerance" and "religious freedom" that this country was also founded on? ------------------ Two Channel System: Klipsch Fortes (1988) Jolida 202a Rega Planet Denon DP 3000 tt (Stax tonearm; Grado Gold cart.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Hey..what do you say......lets beat this topic to death!!!! This has reached the point of rediculous..................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 rediculous?....Hmmm, do I hear someone calling me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Yesterday I had my TV on most of the day just listening to it rather than actually watching it just to keep up on the days headline events while I was busy with some things I needed to do at home. I thought I heard or did not hear something strange but I dismissed it as part of my hearing loss from listening and playing music at very high volumes for so many decades. What I thought I heard was confirmed early this morning on a national TV news recap of yesterdays events and also pointed out by the person reporting on what I was watching. QUESTION : How many people out there can recite the following without reading it ? I pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all. It would not surprise me if most of you can. What does surprise me is that apparently ,ladies and gentlemen, we have put people in the United States Congress who can't ! Unbelievable ! No I take that back. Its scary. Very, very scary. Why ? Because it IS believable and true. These are the people that represent us who are arguing about two words in a pledge that contains thirty-one words that they dont even remember ! Perhaps its just my opinion , which I will not apologize for, but I find this simply amazing ! ------------------ tHe wORLDs werst TYPesT> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripod Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I.... can't.... stop.... posting here! I've tried, I just can't stop. Nice post Clipped&Shorn, lots of big words, but I made my way through it and even laughed out loud at one point. Forrest, let me translate it for you. He called you stupid and said your mad at everyone else because there's nothing you can do about it. Eagerly awaiting your next post to further prove him correct. This message has been edited by tripod on 06-28-2002 at 08:26 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 quote: Originally posted by kenratboy: Whats next, public Christmas celebrations (giant X-mas trees, parades, etc.) will be canceled due to religious problems? Just think about that, thats what scares me, not just the pledge. That's happened here in Cincinnati already. On Fountain Square (the center of town and a sort of 'town square') a few years ago the KKK wanted to put up a cross representing their beliefs. Seeing there was already a Christmas tree on the square and a Jewish Menorah, and has been for years every year, the KKK was calling this "equal time". The first few years this controversy went on the media was on it like hair on a gorilla. People would knock over the KKK's cross at night and sometimes by day. But it was re-erected in short time. Now to put something like that on public property one must get a permit from the city. The permit for the Menorah and the Christmas tree were issued months earlier. The application for the KKK cross would come in just under the wire, so the city got an idea. The city knew exactly who was going to put up a display on the square each year. So the city only issues made available that many permits.....minus one! The KKK's. So when their application would come in the city could respond by saying "Sorry, there are no more application available. That lasted about two years. So the KKK sent their app. in a lot earlier and someone else got denied. The city retaliated by putting the KKK's display in a very inconspicuous place on the square where hardly anyone would notice it. The local media barely even covers it as a news story anymore because it's gotten so old. ------------------ Tom's Money Pit This message has been edited by tblasing on 06-28-2002 at 08:35 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Amen Dean! Greg ------------------ HK AVR20 II Toshiba DVD 32" Toshiba TV Odyssey Stratos 1976 LaScala's Front L&R KV-1 Center KG 1.5 Rear L&R KSW-12 Sub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric D Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 FH2: The incisiveness of your jabs says to me that you have a quick and active mind. So I patiently add bits of information or explain reasoning in the hope that a few seeds may land and over grow time (next year, 10, 20, 30, ... years from now) in what appears to be very fertile ground. (Im sure that someone will associate PWKs yellow button with your choice of soil conditioner, but I meant that sincerely). Audio Flynn: Let us hope and pray for more statesmen and less politicians. In reply to your statement, I do not trust people who believe in no deities, multiple deities, or that their deity tells them my rights are lesser because you do not believe in their deity, I say feel free not to trust them. But might you consider that your rights become lesser if you make their rights lesser. And I guess that my version of your statement would be I would rather associate with a moral person who happens to be an Atheist than an amoral person who labels themselves a Christian. I make that statement guardedly because I do NOT intend it to refer to anyone posting here who has identified themselves as Christian. As example, replace amoral with pedophile, and I think you-all will get my gist. kboy: Re, The Democrats want to think for us, I want to think for myself. I agree that there are Democrats that feel that way, but I also refer back to my earlier notes re what I feel is the co-opting of conservatism by those who want to force their opinions down the throats of others. But stop and consider which side of this argument is the one trying to force a thought down someones throat (maybe just not yours this time). deang: I do think of our founders, what they said, they meant. I, for one, wholeheartedly want our law and institutions to be based on and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of Mankind. But I dont want them to *be* our law and institutions, nor did the early Supreme Court select those words. Re the sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian. Im sure well end up disagreeing on this part, but I dont read that as saying we will have Christian churches only or that they will control the others. Unfortunately, I cant say that Im not interpreting the words (what I THINK they meant) as I cant ask them to clarify it, But neither can you. We are both interpreting. And finally, we look to what words they said (and meant?!?) in the first amendment. Of all their writings, these are the ones they selected to control the form of our government. I think Ive stated before an agreement that religion and Christianity have place in government. I hope that our statesmen (let us hope for statesmen) would inform their decisions based on their religion, and believe in invocations prior to working on legislation. The sticky problem is how to ensure all religions have a place in Government. But back to the Pledge: I agree that under God is not for God or some other more strongly worded requirement. I just want to make an active step to be inclusive of my Muslim, Buddhist, Sufi, Hindi, Wiccan, Atheist, etc, brothers and sisters, as long as they are moral people. Its that damn liberty and justice for all at the end, ya know. Anyway, Ive got other problems with the phrasing anyway. Pledging allegiance to a flag seems a little bit like idolatry. Anyone think they would consider a complete rewrite? I pledge allegiance to the United States of America, and to the values for which it stands. One country, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And I freely add, So help me God! Eric This message has been edited by Eric D on 06-28-2002 at 12:20 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lne937s Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Wow- never thought I'd see this here HornEd- while I may disagree with you in surround choices, you are on target. I will try not to repeat what you have said, but to ad to it. Firstly- the rumors of unified Christian fundamentalism in the founding fathers is greatly exagerated. To my recollection Jefferson, Frankiln and others were Unitarians. For those not familiar, Unitarians promote a very loose interpretation of the bible. The Unitarian church where I went to college had pro-choice organization meetings and gay marriages. Secondly- From a historical standpoint, the combination of church and state has led to the greatest atrocities in history- Spanish inquisition, crusades, numerous wars in uk/ireland, the Nazi holocaust, terrorist bombings, Iran vs. Iraq, mass suicides, etc. While it may give some sense of morality- the combination also brings too much power and the blind allegance of too many people. Thirdly- All this talk about liberal courts is bull. Who appointed them? Look at the numbers. The "liberals" in the supreme court are to a large extent Nixon and Ford appointees. The naive conclusions of political allegance based on amateur interpretations of complex legal documents must end. The addition should have never have been put in place. It has caused an aversion to the country because of an imposition of religious language. Here in NY, you realize that this country is becomming much more diverse due to immigration. There are many legitimate points of view that I was not exposed to growing up in MO. In this case I support the court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 28, 2002 Author Share Posted June 28, 2002 Another thing. At school, after September 11th, when we said the pledge, everyone said it louder and said it with more pride. That lasted right up to the end of the year, not just that week. My school, which is in a wealthy part of town, is mostly middle-upper-$$$ class, and there is a lot of patroism at the school. No one here complains about the pledge, as for one, its recognised as a symbol, two, why not? Its not harming anyone (unless you are a little wuss times 10) I think thats a good thing, reguardless. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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