ClaudeJ1 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) In my case, it's ALL HORNS. Tweeter, Mid, Woofer, and Subs: 2.1. Frequency response from 15-15Khz. reasonably flat at the sweet spot, meaning fitting inside a +/- 5 db envelope in the entire range. A little rollup in the extreme bass with a little rolloff in the exreme treble. Being able to discern great recordings that take advantage of the full dynamic capabilities of the digital recording medium and to be able to reproduce all of it without strain, distortion, or clipping, at "realistic" levels. Meaning not too loud or soft. Acoustic Jazz being my favorite, since they produce better sound and anything in the "pop" genre, but I digress, since that is program material to be played on my reference system, which is still evolving. See my signature setup below. Edited February 13, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It could also be a system with all speakers from the Reference line. Seriously, I would think that a system that could produce sound accurately when it's compared to the live "reference" it was recorded from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I think the term "reference" when it comes to sound, is hyperbole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornman Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 For me "reference System" is the base line that I use to compare all my other systems against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 A reference system IMHO is one that can reproduce a SQ like at a live venue. In the home it is slightly different. The speakers should be relatively flat and approach reasonable listening levels with clarity, imaging and dynamics. This will vary with the type of music that one listen to and likes. It should be a system to grade other systems against. The amp and other gear should also be of high quality. Now the catch, at what price point is reference for an individual. Klipsch has a Reference line as well as the Heritage line and Palladium line. Are these lines made with the best parts where money, size or other constraints put aside? No, so the definition has to have some leadway in it. The term Reference is not easy to define when it comes to audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 No idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrown0678 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It will be intresting to see how this topic develope, will this be indivisual compolents or the result from the combine beign the reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 13, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I think it's kind of used like the term years ago, hi-fi ? To me hi-fi only meant an active attempt to have quality sound compared to just a generic or lower quality it's a radio kind of thing. Reference, I have no clue, never could figure that out, a guess would be the same just a new fancy name. Edited February 13, 2014 by dtel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 I think it's kind of used like the term years ago, hi-fi ? To me hi-fi only meant an active attempt to have quality sound compared to just a generic or lower quality it's a radio kind of thing. Reference, I have no clue, never could figure that out, a guess would be the same just a new fancy name. After owning/measuring/listening to about 12 different midrange horns, with different drivers, phenolic, aluminum, titanium, etc., and half as many tweeter horns/drivers. I'm quite confident in declaring the K402 as my REFERENCE midrange horn, since it's the best I have ever had since I was 12 years old. Female vocals, especially are spooky real, so I base my listening taste on THAT reference when I compare to other people's systems. Also imaging and other things creep in but that is a good start. Tweeters ad a bit of sheen to that. For bass I detest either thin or boomy bass. The best non-horn bass I have heard is my friend's Open Baffle woofer setup with the cheapest Eminence 15" Alpha woofers, although I think my new Quarter Pie Bass Horn with DTS-10 subs beats it, it's apples and oranges and not a fair comparison. I also am not likely to ever do without Audyssey Room correction in my reference system. Some people have LaScalas with Tuba HT subs as a reference, with and without digital delays. So, like the old Klipsch LaScala ad used to say: "Up your system." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) The word is a misnomer, kind of like "accurate". The word means a system that can be used to establish or validate the accuracy of reproduction of other systems. I'm getting old and tired, and I just want the sound to draw me in and take me away. Since I'm so stressed and don't usually feel all that well, I now use music to help me go to sleep -- I'm going to have a real hard time sending that little 3 wpc SEP amp back to Justin. There are a lot of "reference" kind of things that generate the complete antithesis of what I like. Edited February 14, 2014 by DeanG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I always related the word reference with the word flagship. In Klipsch, the Palladium is the flagship. I suppose the Palladium would be the audiophile, and the reference is the reference. Personally, I think the bar is pure horn loaded. One thing I have noticed is that modern hard rock and the mixing they do with it seems to be better on reflex. We all know modern mixing strategies is complete crap. Another thing we know is that LaScalas and their ilk amplify crap. That is a bit of a disadvantage of the horns. I would like to see what a crowd at a concert would do if they put in a CD of the music and played it on the soundsystem. They would probably leave. Edited February 14, 2014 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 For me personally, I agree with Cornman. In the broader context, "reference" seems to have become a marketing term used to tout a manufacturer's best stuff. Klipsch may be the exception since many prefer Heritage to Reference. Also Palladium (which I have not heard) is supposed to be top of the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 For me personally, I agree with Cornman. In the broader context, "reference" seems to have become a marketing term used to tout a manufacturer's best stuff. Klipsch may be the exception since many prefer Heritage to Reference. Also Palladium (which I have not heard) is supposed to be top of the line. Some words have different meanings ("cool" being one of many) in different contexts. Marketing usage of it is certainly the most popular. In my case, I have two "reference" systems that I hear. My own all-horn system, which is dynamic, detailed, and ridiculously low distortion and my best friend's system, which is all custom Open Baffle/3-wayPassive Xovers with choice electronics in a well designe sound room with all the absorbers and diffusers you can imagine. While they are "softer edged" in presentation, they have an absolutely and amazingly uncanny way of creating a 3D hologram of sound. The speakers simply dissappear. On some recordings, some of the sound is next to your or even behind you and defy the logic of just two speakers doing all this front to back work. Most of the time, the music seems to emnate from the wall that is 8 ft behind the speakers and instruments are from a width greater than the speaker spacing. I consider this vs. my horns as two EXTREMES of sonic presentation, but both serve as a REFERENCE for those extremes. BTW, if you discount the custom nature of relative "unavailability" of the 2-way Jubilee with the K402 horn and TAD 4002 drivers along with the Grand 4 T theater speakers, I consider those two to be ABOVE the Palladium in terms of sonic nirvana. I have heard the Palladium on 2 occasions and it was designed to compete with offerings from B&W in the same "arena." The Palladium is an absolutely gorgeous looking speaker and it sound good. It represents a sonic refinement on the part of Klipsch also. But for those who can tolerate the "BIG UGLY STUFF" in their homes, there is simply no comparison to an all horn system that you can get for 1/2 the price of the "pretty ones." Your opinions may vary. The good news is, they are all made by Klipsch in Hope, Arkansas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I always related the word reference with the word flagship. In Klipsch, the Palladium is the flagship. I suppose the Palladium would be the audiophile, and the reference is the reference. Personally, I think the bar is pure horn loaded. One thing I have noticed is that modern hard rock and the mixing they do with it seems to be better on reflex. We all know modern mixing strategies is complete crap. Another thing we know is that LaScalas and their ilk amplify crap. That is a bit of a disadvantage of the horns. I would like to see what a crowd at a concert would do if they put in a CD of the music and played it on the soundsystem. They would probably leave. As my all horn systems have evolved, they have become more and more revealing of good AND bad recordings, which helps make them more "reference" as to how good or bad the recording engineers day was. Both to my joy and chagrin. But that is how a reference system should be. Have no mercy and take no prisoners!! Otherwise, the bad stuff I only listen to in my car since it is masked by road noise instead of revealed in my listening room. Edited February 14, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I don't think there is any such thing as a reference system. Just by nature of the word, if there were a reference system, there would only be 1. In my opinion it's nothing more than a marketing term that someone uses to point to what they consider to be their flagship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) I think it's kind of used like the term years ago, hi-fi ? To me hi-fi only meant an active attempt to have quality sound compared to just a generic or lower quality it's a radio kind of thing. Reference, I have no clue, never could figure that out, a guess would be the same just a new fancy name. After owning/measuring/listening to about 12 different midrange horns, with different drivers, phenolic, aluminum, titanium, etc., and half as many tweeter horns/drivers. I'm quite confident in declaring the K402 as my REFERENCE midrange horn, since it's the best I have ever had since I was 12 years old. Female vocals, especially are spooky real, so I base my listening taste on THAT reference when I compare to other people's systems. Also imaging and other things creep in but that is a good start. Tweeters ad a bit of sheen to that. For bass I detest either thin or boomy bass. The best non-horn bass I have heard is my friend's Open Baffle woofer setup with the cheapest Eminence 15" Alpha woofers, although I think my new Quarter Pie Bass Horn with DTS-10 subs beats it, it's apples and oranges and not a fair comparison. I also am not likely to ever do without Audyssey Room correction in my reference system. Some people have LaScalas with Tuba HT subs as a reference, with and without digital delays. So, like the old Klipsch LaScala ad used to say: "Up your system." Interesting I see this thread yet again. Last night googling many DAC units, I just happened to come across this exact subject, It was in an Audio engineers forum, do not know the address of it but it was best explained there, in their "cult" and it was in the recording end of things. I really need to start bookmarking things as I find them, there sure is a big world of knowledge out there. Edited February 14, 2014 by minermark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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