Some basic questions

[edc]

I am about to buy a 65 or 70 inch TV and setup some decent sound to go with it.  I now have a home stereo system that is excellent but about 30 yrs old.  For speakers I have two Klipsch floor standing Forte models (Forte-WO) is on the labels along with serial numbers.  I bought them new about 30 yrs ago and they have been excellent for me.  I have some questions for my move from this stereo system to the surround sound system.

 

1)  Can I use my two Forte speakers as the left and right front speakers in a surround sound system?  The sensitivity of these speakers is supposedly 94db.

 

2) I noticed on the Crutchfield website that Klipsch makes a speaker designed to be the center speaker in surround configs.  I was looking at the RC52 II.  It had 96db sensitivity I think.  Would this speaker work with my existing speakers in surround config?  I assume I can then add some rear speakers and buy a surround sound amp and setup my new audio world.

 

3) I do not watch a lot of action movies but most movies or reg TV shows I watch have dialogue that is difficult for me to understand due to hearing issues.  Will this Klipsch center speaker (RC52) help to improve dialogue/voice sound from the TV?

 

4) Or should I move on from these old speakers and just get a sound bar (also offered by Klipsch)  which is easier to do but maybe not as good of a result.

 

I guess I asked a lot, any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thank You,  Ed Calkins

 

[jimjimbo]

Welcome to the forum!!

 

A few of my opinions below:

 

I am about to buy a 65 or 70 inch TV and setup some decent sound to go with it.  I now have a home stereo system that is excellent but about 30 yrs old.  For speakers I have two Klipsch floor standing Forte models (Forte-WO) is on the labels along with serial numbers.  I bought them new about 30 yrs ago and they have been excellent for me.  I have some questions for my move from this stereo system to the surround sound system.

 

Are you also upgrading your receiver/audio video processor?

 

1)  Can I use my two Forte speakers as the left and right front speakers in a surround sound system?  The sensitivity of these speakers is supposedly 94db.

 

Most definitely, yes you can.

 

2) I noticed on the Crutchfield website that Klipsch makes a speaker designed to be the center speaker in surround configs.  I was looking at the RC52 II.  It had 96db sensitivity I think.  Would this speaker work with my existing speakers in surround config?  I assume I can then add some rear speakers and buy a surround sound amp and setup my new audio world.

 

3) I do not watch a lot of action movies but most movies or reg TV shows I watch have dialogue that is difficult for me to understand due to hearing issues.  Will this Klipsch center speaker (RC52) help to improve dialogue/voice sound from the TV?

 

Yes, a center will improve the dialogue from the source material

 

4) Or should I move on from these old speakers and just get a sound bar (also offered by Klipsch)  which is easier to do but maybe not as good of a result.

 

IMHO, I would not move away from the Forte's and a center to a soundbar.  Major downgrade.

 

I guess I asked a lot, any opinions or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thank You,  Ed Calkins

 

No problem, that's what this forum is all about.

[The History Kid]

My only recommendation would be to utilize the RC-62 II instead of the RC-52 II.  Majority of the members that have heard the two prefer the 62 and indicate it's worth it.  I have not personally heard the 62, but I have both a 3 II and a 35...and the difference between the 5.25" woofers and the 6.5" woofers along with the horn is definitely noticeable.  The center is arguably the most important speaker in the configuration, so I'd go with the 62 if at all possible.

[John Chi-town]

Ed;

 

Welcome to the forum.  Your forte are excellent speakers.  I own forte II in my system.  Yes keep as mains the forte and forte II are among the most balanced speakers Klipsch ever made.  A real jewel of a speaker.

 

Not to be sarcastic, but 2 ears, 2 speakers does it for me.  With a good amp, why do you see the need for multi-channel?  No "Real" need for a sub, forte dig deep.  I would integrate the new tv to your existing platform.

 

Best regards,

John

[wvu80]

Welcome, Ed. Good questions, all.

 

I agree with everybody above.  Keep the Forte's for L/R.  I'm sure you are moving to an AVR for 5.1 sound.  Any modern AVR will be able to level match your speakers, even if different.

 

I upgraded a year ago to 5.1 sound about a year ago because I couldn't hear dialog through the stock TV stereo speakers when the sound was being broadcast in 5.1 surround sound.  I think you will find it was not your bad hearing but the technology as why you can't hear dialog clearly. 

 

There are differing theories about "timbre-matching" L/C/R, but I did what you are proposing, and I am completely satisfied with my mis-matched L/R and center.  I have a decent center that is an MTM with a dome tweeter and 7" woofs, and dialog is crystal clear, even at lower listening levels.  We don't have to turn the volume up loud for TV listening, and my wife likes the calmness of not having to blast the speakers to hear what people are saying.

 

I agree with Mr. Flame who recommended you upgrade to the RC-62 II.  Go for the best center you can find as I think it is the most important of all your speakers, even more than your L/R.  Depending on where you live you might be able to stay within your budget and find the RC-62 II on the used market since Klipsch seems to pop up on Craigslist all the time. 

Edited January 2, 2015 by wvu80

[Scrappydue]

Another vote for the rc-62. Much better center. Can be had all over the place for 400$ brand new. And if your going to surround sound I don't care how big your mains are a subwoofer is 100% necessary.

[Youthman]

Welcome to the forums Ed.  The Forte will make great main speakers.  I agree with the others that the RC-62 is a much better speaker than the RC-52 and would be worth the extra money.  For movies, the center speaker and subwoofer are the two most important components.  Make sure you get the best you can afford in these two speakers.  Surrounds aren't nearly as important.

[edc]

Wow, thank you all for your time and information.  You have helped me tremendously.  I was asked if I planned to replace my amp.  I believe that is the plan as I assume the new amps for surround sound have the channels needed to utilize the center etc. speakers.  Another option is to just keep the amp and speakers that I have and hook my new tv up in a stereo sound configuration.  That is what I am experimenting with now and other than one area it sounds good to us.  The one area is the dialogue that I am struggling with (my wife does not have the problem).  So my main goal is to improve the sound quality (if that makes sense) especially in the dialogue area if I go to the trouble and expense of upgrading my audio system. Based on your input, I will definitely go to the RC-62 center,  I don't do this frequently enough to try to save a few bucks on the speakers.  I will also get the best TV I can find (65 - 75"). 

 

I am undecided if I want a subwoofer for the room shaking thunder etc.  We don't really care about that effect and my Forte's have pretty good bass already.

 

I now have a Yamaha R9 (I think about 1985 vintage or so).  It works perfectly and is a great amp and connection point for all my stuff.  I especially like that it has three separate speaker outputs that allow using any or all at any time.  This works well with my main speakers and two sets of outside speakers that I have. I hope to find a similar function in a new amp.  I would prefer not to have a new amp and still use my old R9 just to power my outside speakers --- too much equipment in the cabinet.

 

I have never been interested in home theatre/surround sound/dolby 5.1/etc.  so I have a lot to learn (and I thought getting a new TV would be simple) and this forum has really helped.

 

Also I could not find out how to add a picture and data to my profile.  Not a big deal however.   Thanks again,  Ed

[Youthman]

I believe that is the plan as I assume the new amps for surround sound have the channels needed to utilize the center etc. speakers.

That is correct.  It sounds like you are not concerned with having the latest / greatest so a great option (and much cheaper) is to find an older 5.1 Receiver (5 speakers and the .1 is your subwoofer).  Look for Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon or Harman Kardon.  All do great for home theater.

 

I am undecided if I want a subwoofer for the room shaking thunder etc. We don't really care about that effect and my Forte's have pretty good bass already.

We all push the importance of subs here but honestly, if you do not want your house shaking, then a sub isn't necessary.  Good main speakers will provide bass, they just do not produce those really low frequencies and will not shake the room.  If you did decide to buy a subwoofer, you always have full control of how loud you set it with the volume knob on the subwoofer.  You would hear the low frequencies without it blowing you out of the room.

 

I now have a Yamaha R9 (I think about 1985 vintage or so). It works perfectly and is a great amp and connection point for all my stuff. I especially like that it has three separate speaker outputs that allow using any or all at any time. This works well with my main speakers and two sets of outside speakers that I have. I hope to find a similar function in a new amp.

Yes, many HT Receivers have what is called Zone B which is a set of outputs that you can use to power say a pair of patio speakers or speakers in another room. 

 

I have never been interested in home theatre/surround sound/dolby 5.1/etc. so I have a lot to learn

That's exactly what this forum is for.  There are plenty here that will help answer any questions you might have.  Don't worry about asking a dumb question....we've all asked them ourselves at one time.

 

Also I could not find out how to add a picture and data to my profile.

Ed, at the top right of the forum, click the down arrow next to your name and then choose My Profile.  Then at the top right, you will see a link that says "Edit Profile".  Then you will be able to add an "Avatar" for your profile photo.

[garyrc]

The Fortes are much better than most Home Theater speakers ... by far.

 

Don't use any of the electronics in your TV for audio (for movies, at least).  The better big flatscreen sets still have crappy audio, even if you bypass the speakers.  In our bedroom, we use the electronics up to "audio out" on our flatscreen, and it cuts out the deep bass, as well as having much worse general sound quality than our movie system in the same room, with the same speakers and the same power amp.

 

With an AVR, you can turn up the center channel a bit, which should clarify the audio.   

 

A subwoofer will let you hear the response and effects the filmmakers intended, or, at least get closer to their intention, than a system without a sub.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Garyrc

[Jim]

That is correct.  It sounds like you are not concerned with having the latest / greatest so a great option (and much cheaper) is to find an older 5.1 Receiver (5 speakers and the .1 is your subwoofer).  Look for Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon or Harman Kardon.  All do great for home theater

 

You can get a nice little 5.1 set up and it should be fine for everything. Most likely the only thing you won't get is the internet connection and online music. Yamaha has several in thE RX-V 4 series that should work for you. They will have between 80-90 watts per channel, and you'll be able to switch back and forth between 2 channel, 3 channel, and 5 channel listening. And if you get the receiver ahead of the speakers, you can always listen with a "phantom" center channel with the Forte.

 

Both Yamaha and Marantz have a nice "slim line" variation of their receivers, albeit less wattage, but they are going to be nice for what you are looking for.

[wvu80]

I agree with others get an AVR and run a 3.0 system. You may find you like that set up even better than the 5.1. You can always set up a 5.1 by adding surround speakers and a sub later.

[edc]

Thanks for all the good comments. I was looking at the receivers today (online) and was leaning towards a Yamaha based on the good reliability I

have experienced with their products. However I ran into one issue that is interesting (or maybe not worth considering). I am buying a 4K TV and want to be prepared for 4K content when it arrives. According to what I am learning, to utilize 4K content the receiver/amp has to have HDMI 2.0

and more specifically the chip set has to have HDCP 2.2 technology. Anything without the HDCP 2.2 will not be allowed to pass 4K content -- it is

intended to prevent illegal use of the content or something?? The only receivers I have found that currently have this are a couple of Onkyo

models. Not all TV's have these standards implemented either. Crutchfield has lots of info on this on their site.

[The History Kid]

If you go Yamaha way and are worried about compliance...I'd insist you utilize either the RX-A840 or later models.  Disregard the RX-V and HTR line, and any RX-A's below the 840.

[garyrc]

Thanks for all the good comments. I was looking at the receivers today (online) and was leaning towards a Yamaha based on the good reliability I

have experienced with their products. However I ran into one issue that is interesting (or maybe not worth considering). I am buying a 4K TV and want to be prepared for 4K content when it arrives. According to what I am learning, to utilize 4K content the receiver/amp has to have HDMI 2.0

and more specifically the chip set has to have HDCP 2.2 technology. Anything without the HDCP 2.2 will not be allowed to pass 4K content -- it is

intended to prevent illegal use of the content or something?? The only receivers I have found that currently have this are a couple of Onkyo

models. Not all TV's have these standards implemented either. Crutchfield has lots of info on this on their site.

 

Can you go around the AVR with 4K?  That is, run the video directly from the player to the projector via HDMI?  That's what my dealer advised for higher video quality with our less than 4K, and it works well (our audio goes to our pre-pro through another HDMI).   Any and all control of the picture is available in most projectors, so the AVR controls are not necessary (for video) at least with our set-up.  The main advantage of 4K would be for large projected images ... if, instead, you are getting a TV of any screen size I've seen, I don't think 4K would be an advantage, unless you sit very, very close, IMO.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Garyrc

[Scrappydue]

Man they are gonna make a killing on 4k. I think unless you are getting a 80"+ or projector 4k is a huge gimmick! Big fat waste of money if you ask me

[edc]

Thanks. This is from the specs for the Yamaha A-840 "This receiver is not HDCP 2.2-compliant and will not support copy-protected 4K video content". Possibly it is wise to just ignore the upcoming 4K content. I am buying a 65-75 inch TV so it is probably right on the line where 4K is useful anyway. I think the timing is bad to assume that whatever components you buy now will be compliant with this still evolving standard. I typically keep TVs etc for 10+ years so I try to buy the latest and greatest so they stay somewhat on the curve over time. Supposedly the newer TVs do some upgrading to utilize some of the 4K capability with lesser content. And some TVs are compliant with HDCP 2.2 but it is a real limiter on picking

a limitation on amp/receiver selection and being it is hardware it cannot be upgraded via software. Garyrc, your suggestion is interesting

but kind of defeats the simplicity of using the receiver as the collection point for content with one HDMI to the TV.

I need to rethink my plan that was coming together very nicely (and included buying more Klipsch speakers). Some options:

1) Leave 4K out of the plan, possibly even at the TV level. Proceed with everything else.

2) Stay with 4K, get whatever compliance I can now and hope for the best as this content evolves over the next couple of years.

3) Get a compliant 4k TV now, use my existing stereo sound system as TV sound, add my surround sound capability in a year or so when this

HDMI/HDCP stuff gets better defined and supported.

[Ski Bum]

Another option is to just keep the amp and speakers that I have and hook my new tv up in a stereo sound configuration.  That is what I am experimenting with now and other than one area it sounds good to us.

 

It's called a phantom center, and it actually works pretty well if you only need coverage for a couple seats.  You can expand and stabilize the image over a wider area by cross-firing the L and R speakers.

 

url=http://libinst.com/PublicArticles/Setup%20of%20WG%20Speakers.pdf

[Jim]

Thanks. This is from the specs for the Yamaha A-840 "This receiver is not HDCP 2.2-compliant and will not support copy-protected 4K video content". Possibly it is wise to just ignore the upcoming 4K content. I am buying a 65-75 inch TV so it is probably right on the line where 4K is useful anyway. I think the timing is bad to assume that whatever components you buy now will be compliant with this still evolving standard. I typically keep TVs etc for 10+ years so I try to buy the latest and greatest so they stay somewhat on the curve over time. Supposedly the newer TVs do some upgrading to utilize some of the 4K capability with lesser content. And some TVs are compliant with HDCP 2.2 but it is a real limiter on picking

a limitation on amp/receiver selection and being it is hardware it cannot be upgraded via software. Garyrc, your suggestion is interesting

but kind of defeats the simplicity of using the receiver as the collection point for content with one HDMI to the TV.

I need to rethink my plan that was coming together very nicely (and included buying more Klipsch speakers). Some options:

1) Leave 4K out of the plan, possibly even at the TV level. Proceed with everything else.

2) Stay with 4K, get whatever compliance I can now and hope for the best as this content evolves over the next couple of years.

3) Get a compliant 4k TV now, use my existing stereo sound system as TV sound, add my surround sound capability in a year or so when this

HDMI/HDCP stuff gets better defined and supported.

 

EDC,

 

I look at it this way, the 4K is going to most likely be obsolete in a few years as they already have another option for screen resolution. They don't have any real programming for it. So IMO you are getting caught up as I did, get the gear for something that isn't available and by the time it is, you'll need to upgrade again. I have all my receivers supposedly geared for 4K, but what good has it done me? There's no movies available, there's no TV through cable available, and what is there isn't viable. Same as HD right now, unless you have DIRECTV, you don't have many options with HD channels. I have in my area,every channel that my cable company offers, and for my HBO types there's 4 channels, and another 100 or so for local cable programming. But, I have 40 plus HBO type channels. 

 

IMO I'd stick with a regular TV,and just have it calibrated. If you are going to stick with Yamaha, I wouldn't do anything lower than the RX-A1**0 SERIES. It will give you the option to add the 4K if you decide to do it down the line and you'll be able to add on external amps. It also has a few toys you can play with and if you already like the sound from them,it has better guts than any of the RX-V  and lower RX-A models.

[Paducah Home Theater]

Man they are gonna make a killing on 4k. I think unless you are getting a 80"+ or projector 4k is a huge gimmick! Big fat waste of money if you ask me

I've seen a $26,000 4K projector in action on a 120" screen. No way I could ever justify it, you had to be at point blank range to appreciate it at all, and that was with a pure 4K source. Any distance at all and with a standard blu-ray and I feel like my JVC could hang just fine, plus would come with a free partially used Cadillac with what you'd save. If you are sitting very close to a TV for video games I could see it but otherwise 4K mainly just impresses people in the showroom who walk up and gawk from 3' away.

Edited January 3, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters