Bass response on KLF-30's?

[avguytx]

I'm still trying to get "used to" them but kind of find the bass lacking at lower volumes (65 to 70db with 80db peaks). Kind of surprising figuring there are (4) 12" woofers in ported cabinets. I do take into consideration I have hardwood floors, etc., but no matter what amp I've ran, they're kind of uneventful. I'm even running with the loudness on my preamp (40Hz boost tight Q) and a little boost on the bass. Yes, they are bone stock...no work has been done to them and all woofers are in phase. I'm deliberating on bi-amping them to see what change there is but my Polk SDA SRS 2's had better bass response than these. Hmmm... Trying to decide how I like them in comparison to the CF-3's. Right now they are about 4" from the wall which is about where Klipsch mentioned in the owners manual. Still playing around with that too.

Years ago, I owned two different sets of Altec Lancing Valencia's. I wanted to like them but hated their lack of high frequency response and the bass wasn't that great either. And people swear by them somehow. But I had two pairs of Dynaco A25's that I did the inverted "stacked" setup for poops and grins agains the Altecs. Totally killed the Altecs, too. For those not familiar with the A25's, just a simple 10" 2-way in a smallish cabinet and aperiodic membrane and produce very good sound for what they are. Sold both sets of Altecs and still own the Dynaco's. Might have to try that comparison again.

But for stock polymer diaphragms, they sound pretty darn good to me. Maybe that's because having tinitus and some missing upper HF hearing, I need that extra bit of edge.

[jjptkd]

I'd pull them about 8"-12" from the back and side walls in the corners toed in, should be plenty of bass out of those speakers.

[avguytx]

Problem is, the left side is about 5 feet from the corner and right side has no corner; it's about a foot or less from a doorway to other bedrooms. Plus bringing them out that far would bring them that much closer to the main listening position. And throw in wife acceptance factor in them coming out that far, too. I'm kind of limited in this house at this point so I may have to come up with another plan or live with it.

My last house in Texas sounded better in the living room; carpeted floors, bigger, less null points. But I didn't have any 90 degree corners in it, either. I had a pair of '78 Klipschorns for a short time and couldn't use them in the living room so they ended up in my office in the house. I ultimately sold them as they just didn't work.

Edited February 9, 2015 by avguytx

[wvu80]

Years ago, I owned two different sets of Altec Lancing Valencia's. I wanted to like them but hated their lack of high frequency response and the bass wasn't that great either. And people swear by them somehow. But I had two pairs of Dynaco A25's that I did the inverted "stacked" setup for poops and grins agains the Altecs. Totally killed the Altecs, too. For those not familiar with the A25's, just a simple 10" 2-way in a smallish cabinet and aperiodic membrane and produce very good sound for what they are. Sold both sets of Altecs and still own the Dynaco's. Might have to try that comparison again.

 

 

Those Danish-made A-25's are a treasure and a best kept secret.  Those "simple" 2-way speakers feature a Seas tweeter! 

Edited February 9, 2015 by wvu80

[avguytx]

Yep. They are great sounding and scary amazing how much power they can actually take. I may have to try them this next weekend. I've not heard them in this house...just my last one. Both pairs are here, though, so easy enough to do. Just need some stands.

[BusaDude]

Owning a pair of KLF-20s, and having listened to the 30's (a long time ago), I don't think I would ever say they lack bass response (at any volume).

I had my 20's centered on the long wall of a 19'x16' room. About 10'-11' apart which put them a little more than 4' from each corner. And I generally kept them about 12" from the back wall and toed-in a bit towards the listening position.

If there was any type of bass in the music, they were more than capable of reproducing it. They're a great rock/metal/EDM speaker but do really well with all types of music.

Maybe your particular room or setup is causing some issues, room nodes or cancellations?

I'll also say that I used a Carver 6250 Receiver and a McIntosh MC7270 at various times to power them. They really seemed to respond well to stout solid state amplification.

[derrickdj1]

In my limited experience with the 20' compared to the 30's, I liked the 20's better because I felt the bass was more punchy.  I thought the bass was there with the 30's but of a softer nature.  You can always add a small sub and it will function like a mid bass module.  That will give tight punchy bass and not take up a lot of floor space and can be hid for WAF.

[avguytx]

Owning a pair of KLF-20s, and having listened to the 30's (a long time ago), I don't think I would ever say they lack bass response (at any volume).

I had my 20's centered on the long wall of a 19'x16' room. About 10'-11' apart which put them a little more than 4' from each corner. And I generally kept them about 12" from the back wall and toed-in a bit towards the listening position.

If there was any type of bass in the music, they were more than capable of reproducing it. They're a great rock/metal/EDM speaker but do really well with all types of music.

Maybe your particular room or setup is causing some issues, room nodes or cancellations?

I'll also say that I used a Carver 6250 Receiver and a McIntosh MC7270 at various times to power them. They really seemed to respond well to stout solid state amplification.

 

And that's the thing...they do have some bass and, of course, it's material dependent as to how much.  Currently I run either a completely upgraded Carver M-1.0t MkII Opt 002 that benches at over 400wpc or a rebuilt Carver M200t around 140wpc.  I don't think there's a lack of power from the M-1.0t for sure.

 

I know the room has it's own problems with nulls and nodes and I hate that about it.  Seems like my Norman Lab Model 9's had better bass than the 30's, too.  (three 10" woofers per cabinet...2 front fire, 1 rear (switchable))  All speakers perform different in different settings so it's going to be a matter of finding what works in that room (which I hate).  I also have a pair of Celestion Ditton 44 Series 2's I'm going to try and see what happens.  I'm sure it's the bass wavelength in the room that's different between the various speakers.  Bigger isn't always better.

Edited February 9, 2015 by avguytx

[rockhound]

Mooray should be chiming in he has a lot of good ideas for the KLf's. I had a set of 20's and read how great they were at bass, I love bass! They never went as low as I wanted and like you I was surprised they didn't, I think it was my listening room just to small to let them loose. I've finally come to the conclusion that the bass I crave can only be satisfied by an external sub. I've never owned a pair of 30's sure would like to.

[ChuckAb3]

We have 30's anchoring our HT system and they dig deep. With a sub, the system sounds great. 20's would do the trick as well.

[vnzbd]

I've owned the 10's, 20's and 30's. In my experience the 20's and 30's do need to be pushed a little to get the bass going. At lower levels the mids are far more present than the bass. The 10's have more bass and punchier bass at lower levels and stay balanced as they get louder. Of course they don't have the mid as they are a two way.

 

Make sure that you do not have a loose front or back as that will effect the bass output as well.

[Fish]

I think a lot of these results are room dependent. I have my recently acquired 30s in a kinda  difficult room but not bad. I have had five different avr's/amps/pres and rf5, rf82II, rf83, klf20, klf30 and Cerwin 38re's. Needless to say the Cerwins had NO bass issue what so ever, as a matter of fact it was monster bass. I only moved em due to the rest of the set is Klipsch and I needed them in my Garage for parties.

 

 The KLF 20 did a good job with no complaint but when I sold my 7's I moved the 20's to that room. The 30's have taken things to the next level finally giving me all the bass I ever wanted in this room where bass has been an issue. The rf set's, even the 83 just did not git er done ,nothing bad just not enough bass. The 30's do drop off slightly about 60/70 hz, not much but I have two subs to fill in. I don't think any Klipsch towers have monster bass but the rest is really good. The 20's are great nothing bad about to my ears but the 30's just have a little bigger sound. I now am not looking for speakers in this room after 10 years.

 

I will note they have ti diaphrams which are less loud and maybe allows lows to come up at lower gain.

[SWL]

The 30's do drop off slightly about 60/70 hz

 

I don't doubt that it's room thing because my 30's have the most balls at around 40hz. I run subs with mine but never hi-pass the mains because of this. It would be a shame to rob them of this characteristic in my room.....so I don't...and it works good just running the subs 40hz and down, simply to 'accent' the 30's. Works good for me. BTW, I only use them for two-channel.

[Fish]

I agree, I think its the room too, best Klipsch bass Ive had in this room!

Edited February 9, 2015 by Fish

[Cantilope]

I've finally come to the conclusion that the bass I crave can only be satisfied by an external sub.

I love my KLF-30's have had them since new, however... try them with a 24" THT.

[avguytx]

I may have to confiscate my Sunfire sub that's been over at my buddy's house for the last 5 years and drop it in my system. I wanted to keep from doing that but I'd rather have the low end. I do have a couple of plate amplifiers from a pair of Audio Pro subwoofers (Scandanavian upper end speaker company) that I could use to build a pair of sub enclosures into an old Stromberg Carlson console (gutted) and fire the ports downward plus it's in the corner of the room. That would be fairly easy to try. They could be tuned pretty low plus I have the TS parameters for them, too.

Actually I have two of these. Rather obscure in the U.S. but a great company. The company I worked for a few years back was the North American distributor for them.

http://www.audiopro.com/sites/audiopro.com/files/expired_product_folders/SubFocus_115V_Manual.pdf

http://www.audiopro.com/sites/audiopro.com/files/expired_product_folders/SubFocus_productinfo_eng.pdf

Edited February 10, 2015 by avguytx

[rockhound]

I may have to confiscate my Sunfire sub that's been over at my buddy's house for the last 5 years and drop it in my system. I wanted to keep from doing that but I'd rather have the low end. I do have a couple of plate amplifiers from a pair of Audio Pro subwoofers (Scandanavian upper end speaker company) that I could use to build a pair of sub enclosures into an old Stromberg Carlson console (gutted) and fire the ports downward plus it's in the corner of the room. That would be fairly easy to try. They could be tuned pretty low plus I have the TS parameters for them, too.

Actually I have two of these. Rather obscure in the U.S. but a great company. The company I worked for a few years back was the North American distributor for them.

http://www.audiopro.com/sites/audiopro.com/files/expired_product_folders/SubFocus_115V_Manual.pdf

http://www.audiopro.com/sites/audiopro.com/files/expired_product_folders/SubFocus_productinfo_eng.pdf

I say give it a shot it can't hurt right.

[Fish]

Yeah...I think I'd repo my Sunfire.I had one many years ago and still remember how it pounded out the jams.

[avguytx]

I miss being the Sunfire rep. lol

[avguytx]

They definitely have better bass with the volume up. I'm giving them a listen before my Dr appointment this morning (nerve conductance test for carpul tunnel surgery in both arms coming up soon). They sure do sound good though even with stock diaphragms. Maybe I'll do the Ti tweeter replacements soon along with upgraded caps and bracing.