Why so many NJ teachers are retiring......

[Gilbert]

LOL - Let me know when you find 10,000 regular citizens willing to cut grapes 12 hours a day in 100F weather. Or change filthy sheets in the 5,000 room hotels in Las Vegas for piecework. Or pick strawberries on their hands and knees while being sprayed from overhead by insecticides. Or, paint lacquer in the furniture factories with no safety equipment. Or, scrub out chemical containers like human sponges, or do roofing work. You must be kidding,

 

 

Workers being sprayed with pesticides?,  Changing not just dirty sheets, but filthy sheets in 5000 room hotels? Man, I've been to quite a few places, and I've never seen or even heard of a 5000 room hotel; you sure do get around Mark. 

 

And scrubbing-out chemical containers while unprotected, like human sponges? Shoot, for the past 6 years I've done a lot of work in the O & G industry. Countless chemical tanks I've seen decontaminated, just so that they could be legally removed from the site, 100's, literally 100's of them, and right here in South Texas, where's there no shortage of illegals. And not on any project have I ever seen one of these so-called human sponges. Every company has to provide proof of EPA compliance, every project had to be discussed in detail with owner before anyone is even allowed on the property. Every worker has to wear full body hazmat suits, all equipment used to clean out the containers has to be handled with strict adherence to the EPA regs. They don't allow them to hose off the equipment, it all has to be wiped clean with special pre-soaked cloths. Yet you claim it's not at all like this; not as I have seen, witnessed, or lived.

 

Weeeeeell, I dunno Mark, this sure sounds like another one of your hollywood like over-dramatizations, but then again, I think that's how you Califa boyz handle this kind of shyt. As Jeff once put it, it's the ole Human Shield concept.

[Gilbert]

Mine is only $75.

 

How long does it take, and how many workers?

Edited April 28, 2015 by Gilbert

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

 

Don't know about how you guys in Califa are dealing with the influx of illegals,

 

The same way we always have. They are absolutely critical to our economy, and appreciated by half the population, and despised by the other half, who are clueless about how the economy works in today's world. Our schools are not suffering because of immigrants, they are suffering because very powerful reactionary forces that want to corporatize education. (See the Corinthian College fiasco.)

 

 

To a large degree, we are also seeing a shift in labor due to immigration in a significant way.  Illegals bring down the price of unskilled labor.  Therefore, rather than citizens doing unskilled labor, we see many more illegals doing it.  As a result, the demand for citizen-provided unskilled labor has waned dramatically, except for those citizens who are willing to be paid the lowest of wages.  Would you include this as "corporatization?"  The network between supply and demand for labor is very complex, and I don't know that you can claim it's all one-sided.  

 

As you say, let's finish with the greatest irony of all:  Corporations want to exploit labor, and in doing so, they encourage immigration, which in turn, lifts the standards of immigrating families to where they can have 2400 calories on less than an hour's wages.

 

Wow! Amazing!  This is occurring in one of the most Christian nations on earth.  Yet, the citizens complain about how they are having to suffer because of this.  Apparently, 2400 calories isn't enough.  Gives you pause, doesn't it?

 

 

LOL - Let me know when you find 10,000 regular citizens willing to cut grapes 12 hours a day in 100F weather. Or change filthy sheets in the 5,000 room hotels in Las Vegas for piecework. Or pick strawberries on their hands and knees while being sprayed from overhead by insecticides. Or, paint lacquer in the furniture factories with no safety equipment. Or, scrub out chemical containers like human sponges, or do roofing work. You must be kidding, Jeff. Sure, you can anecdotally find a few, but the tens and tens of thousands needed in the 5th largest economy in the world aren't going to be filled by natural born citizens.

 

Corporations are expected to, and designed to exploit labor, so no irony there at all. 

(edit: nevermind)

 

 

LOL!  Mark, your response supports mine.  It's ironic, isn't it, that the citizens are complaining that illegals are taking jobs they don't want?  Or perhaps the citizens wanted those jobs for themselves at higher pay, but those awful illegals came in and agreed to accept a lower pay so that they could immigrate here, where you can get your 2,400 calories for an hour's pay.

 

So, what's the "Christian" thing to do?  Accept the illegals, despite their competition and depression of wages?  Or pay citizens more so they can compete with the illegals and discourage immigration?

 

This is a winners/losers scenario, and I'd like to hear the "Christian" choice.

[oldtimer]

Well if you don't know then you are not a Christian.  Not that the answer is supported by Christians, which I think is Mark's point.

[oldtimer]

Although Mark is wrong about this being a Christian nation.  The whole point of the clause in the constitution refutes that.

[Jeff Matthews]

Well if you don't know then you are not a Christian.  Not that the answer is supported by Christians, which I think is Mark's point.

 

As I understand the politics of religion, there is even dissent among Christians.  "Only the Christians know what is 'Christian.'" is really sort-of absurd on its face.

[oldtimer]

It was rhetorical.  If all you got out of it was absurd on a prima facie basis then you are behind the curve.

[Jeff Matthews]

It was rhetorical.  If all you got out of it was absurd on a prima facie basis then you are behind the curve.

 

I am behind the curve.  I would ask "Rhetorical to show what?," but then, I guess you weren't showing anything.

[oldtimer]

Showing the conundrum that mark points out.  It is the conflict between the Christian response versus the economic political response.  You guessed wrongly.  

Edit:  rereading who posted what you both agree.  My response was to your question.  Which appears to be rhetorical in itself.  If not then carry on. 

Edited April 28, 2015 by oldtimer

[oldtimer]

This is a winners/losers scenario, and I'd like to hear the "Christian" choice.

 

Yes but the Christian thing to do is accept them and then organize them into a revolutionary force.  Let's take back our country!  Who becomes a winner and who a loser is then up for grabs.

[oldtimer]

Good god almighty there is no choice.  Dill pickles!  otherwise the flavor profile is ruined.

[oldtimer]

Yes there is.  Children who never learn.

[mungkiman]

 

 

 

 

 

Don't know about how you guys in Califa are dealing with the influx of illegals,

 

The same way we always have. They are absolutely critical to our economy, and appreciated by half the population, and despised by the other half, who are clueless about how the economy works in today's world. Our schools are not suffering because of immigrants, they are suffering because very powerful reactionary forces that want to corporatize education. (See the Corinthian College fiasco.)

 

 

To a large degree, we are also seeing a shift in labor due to immigration in a significant way.  Illegals bring down the price of unskilled labor.  Therefore, rather than citizens doing unskilled labor, we see many more illegals doing it.  As a result, the demand for citizen-provided unskilled labor has waned dramatically, except for those citizens who are willing to be paid the lowest of wages.  Would you include this as "corporatization?"  The network between supply and demand for labor is very complex, and I don't know that you can claim it's all one-sided.  

 

As you say, let's finish with the greatest irony of all:  Corporations want to exploit labor, and in doing so, they encourage immigration, which in turn, lifts the standards of immigrating families to where they can have 2400 calories on less than an hour's wages.

 

Wow! Amazing!  This is occurring in one of the most Christian nations on earth.  Yet, the citizens complain about how they are having to suffer because of this.  Apparently, 2400 calories isn't enough.  Gives you pause, doesn't it?

 

 

LOL - Let me know when you find 10,000 regular citizens willing to cut grapes 12 hours a day in 100F weather. Or change filthy sheets in the 5,000 room hotels in Las Vegas for piecework. Or pick strawberries on their hands and knees while being sprayed from overhead by insecticides. Or, paint lacquer in the furniture factories with no safety equipment. Or, scrub out chemical containers like human sponges, or do roofing work. You must be kidding, Jeff. Sure, you can anecdotally find a few, but the tens and tens of thousands needed in the 5th largest economy in the world aren't going to be filled by natural born citizens.

 

Corporations are expected to, and designed to exploit labor, so no irony there at all. 

(edit: nevermind)

 

 

LOL!  Mark, your response supports mine.  It's ironic, isn't it, that the citizens are complaining that illegals are taking jobs they don't want?  Or perhaps the citizens wanted those jobs for themselves at higher pay, but those awful illegals came in and agreed to accept a lower pay so that they could immigrate here, where you can get your 2,400 calories for an hour's pay.

 

So, what's the "Christian" thing to do?  Accept the illegals, despite their competition and depression of wages?  Or pay citizens more so they can compete with the illegals and discourage immigration?

 

This is a winners/losers scenario, and I'd like to hear the "Christian" choice.

 

 

According to Carl, I'm not allowed to use any religious terms. I guess you can, but I can't.

 

Let's get to the really, REALLY important stuff: Dill or sweet pickles with your BBQ cheeseburgers, whiskey and cigars?

 

 

Have you tried a pickleback with your whiskey?

[CECAA850]

According to Carl, I'm not allowed to use any religious terms. I guess you can, but I can't.

 

It might seem like I'm on here 24/7 but I'm not.  I can't read every post in every thread.   

[BigStewMan]

I can't read every post in every thread

That’s nothing to be ashamed of Carl. But i wouldn’t admit that publicly … oops you just did     

Years ago, attending parent/teacher conferences, i told my daughter’s teacher that i couldn’t help her with her homework (i was meaning that i’m of impatient type). The teacher said very sympathetically, “oh, you can’t read?" 

[Jeff Matthews]

 

According to Carl, I'm not allowed to use any religious terms. I guess you can, but I can't.

 

It might seem like I'm on here 24/7 but I'm not.  I can't read every post in every thread.   

 

Lies!  All lies!

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

 

 

 

Don't know about how you guys in Califa are dealing with the influx of illegals,

 

The same way we always have. They are absolutely critical to our economy, and appreciated by half the population, and despised by the other half, who are clueless about how the economy works in today's world. Our schools are not suffering because of immigrants, they are suffering because very powerful reactionary forces that want to corporatize education. (See the Corinthian College fiasco.)

 

 

To a large degree, we are also seeing a shift in labor due to immigration in a significant way.  Illegals bring down the price of unskilled labor.  Therefore, rather than citizens doing unskilled labor, we see many more illegals doing it.  As a result, the demand for citizen-provided unskilled labor has waned dramatically, except for those citizens who are willing to be paid the lowest of wages.  Would you include this as "corporatization?"  The network between supply and demand for labor is very complex, and I don't know that you can claim it's all one-sided.  

 

As you say, let's finish with the greatest irony of all:  Corporations want to exploit labor, and in doing so, they encourage immigration, which in turn, lifts the standards of immigrating families to where they can have 2400 calories on less than an hour's wages.

 

Wow! Amazing!  This is occurring in one of the most Christian nations on earth.  Yet, the citizens complain about how they are having to suffer because of this.  Apparently, 2400 calories isn't enough.  Gives you pause, doesn't it?

 

 

LOL - Let me know when you find 10,000 regular citizens willing to cut grapes 12 hours a day in 100F weather. Or change filthy sheets in the 5,000 room hotels in Las Vegas for piecework. Or pick strawberries on their hands and knees while being sprayed from overhead by insecticides. Or, paint lacquer in the furniture factories with no safety equipment. Or, scrub out chemical containers like human sponges, or do roofing work. You must be kidding, Jeff. Sure, you can anecdotally find a few, but the tens and tens of thousands needed in the 5th largest economy in the world aren't going to be filled by natural born citizens.

 

Corporations are expected to, and designed to exploit labor, so no irony there at all. 

(edit: nevermind)

 

 

LOL!  Mark, your response supports mine.  It's ironic, isn't it, that the citizens are complaining that illegals are taking jobs they don't want?  Or perhaps the citizens wanted those jobs for themselves at higher pay, but those awful illegals came in and agreed to accept a lower pay so that they could immigrate here, where you can get your 2,400 calories for an hour's pay.

 

So, what's the "Christian" thing to do?  Accept the illegals, despite their competition and depression of wages?  Or pay citizens more so they can compete with the illegals and discourage immigration?

 

This is a winners/losers scenario, and I'd like to hear the "Christian" choice.

 

 

According to Carl, I'm not allowed to use any religious terms. I guess you can, but I can't.

 

Let's get to the really, REALLY important stuff: Dill or sweet pickles with your BBQ cheeseburgers, whiskey and cigars?

 

Stop your whining! 

 

Dill is for BBQ.  Sweet for potato salad.  Every respectable Southerner knows this.

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jeff Matthews

[Travis In Austin]

The Venetian and MGM are 7K room hotels. LV has about 10 hotels that are in the 4K room class. Mexican nationals will not clean hotels, they consider it beneath them, or at least it was that way when I lived there. They are more established there and can do better. Hotel maids there are primairly from El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, etc.

They are, for the most part, documented. They are, for the most part, unionized. They start at 10 an hour with full benefits, and go up to 16 an hour, that is 32K a year. Paid vacation, matching 401K.

[mangofirst]

The foundation the argument is broader than any fairy tale traditions. Educators are correct that parenting and the home life do impact how well a child does in school and parents would rather reserve the right to determine how they raise their families, feed their families and establish family values. And we have this tug-of-war between the entities. Educational systems perceive themselves as social support structures collaterally focused on education and feel that they should set minimum guidelines for functions historically set in the home. They now feed and counsel and direct many aspects of the students life they insist are requisite to learning. IF they were actually succeeding with this concept it would be one thing. But generally speaking it does not work. If conflicts. As in this instance. IMHO educational systems do not have the time, nor the resources nor the skill sets to be both parent and teacher. And when they try to do both they succeed at neither.

As unfortunate as it is social stratification exists and systems should learn to do their best at specific chores despite them. Not every household will be the best for every student. Those which are criminally bad get referred to the social workers or the justice systems. But schools need to return to honing the basics of education and stop trying to be a social support network for all of humanity under the age of 18.

While I personally am not always trying "to be a social support network" for my students, teachers do, especially elementary ones, see their students for more hours each week than their parents. You try spending 25-30 (or even 5 like me, the high school teacher) hours a week with human beings under the age of 18 -- keeping them engaged in their learning, keeping them from killing each other -- and get back to me on how we should not bother with including character education and as many "teachable moments" as possible in our daily lessons.

What if my having a one-on-one with a kid and telling him why I think he's a great person, or that he is really a bright student when he is focused on his thinking...what if that made a difference? What if nobody had ever told them they were worth a damn, and I did, and they ended up being an integral part of our society rather than the scum of the earth?

Edited April 30, 2015 by mangofirst

[mangofirst]

Now, as for the Common Core (because I'm sure that will come up if it hasn't already), it's just the newest in a long line of trying to stick a bandaid on a gaping wound. Good teachers actually do stick to the basics. The same things that have been taught for hundreds of years. No set of standards will change the way I teach; I will continue to do what I do, only I will find the standard that fits what I was already doing to begin with. That is not to say that I don't learn new and better methods every time I teach a lesson or attend a good professional development workshop (though those are rare indeed). If a teacher can't figure out how to use the standards in that way, they ought not be teaching. Of course, I haven't seen the CC math standards, so I'm only speaking about English and history.