New hardware

[jwc]

"""I don't like parts rubbing into each other when handled"""

 

I thought we were talking about crossovers?

[jimjimbo]

Nice to know that someone has a coherent business model, and follows through on commitments.  Nice work.

[muel]

 

I am curious about that material John, does it solidify somewhat, like rubber?

 

Dear God man it's just RTV (Dow Corning 732) Black

(Christ, next time I'll use Grey).

 

Hey, they've got clear too!  This is the good stuff... very sticky and seals well.  I knew I had some tubes of this but figured they were a little old.  Yeah, they were old... try over 20 years old and completely cured inside the tubes.   I imagine this is better than hot glue.

[minermark]

 

 

I am curious about that material John, does it solidify somewhat, like rubber?

 

Dear God man it's just RTV (Dow Corning 732) Black

(Christ, next time I'll use Grey).

 

Hey, they've got clear too!  This is the good stuff... very sticky and seals well.  I knew I had some tubes of this but figured they were a little old.  Yeah, they were old... try over 20 years old and completely cured inside the tubes.   I imagine this is better than hot glue.

 

One of my supplys i stay low stock on is RTV, it's the ONLY thing in my Supply Cabinet that can be re-freshed for as little as 5Bucks for a small tube. 10Mo max is my rule.

[minermark]

Nice to have yet another place for "New" parts, i like this, will bookmark Warren for future reference.

[Deang]

I worry less about the vibration issue when the network isn't sitting inside of the loudspeaker. On the heavier networks that sit outside, I'll sometimes wedge pieces of foam between the parts before I ship. Never thought about using RTV for those tight places.

I couldn't help but notice the Thetas. Alex Crespi is back, and has the rights to the MusiCap. The Theta is a great film and foil, but I've never been the biggest fan of the lead material. The last set I built for myself were with the Musicaps, and I was fairly impressed.

[Guest thesloth]

That bandwidth graph of the autoformer is what I would expect to see from the bifilar winding. I am thinking the less leakage inductance the higher the frequency response. Since leakage inductance is down resonances will be mitigated and no need for that shunt resistor is my  guess. Great job!

[Deang]

We now have three different ways of upgrading the top section of a Heritage Loudspeaker. I understand that John's is specific to the Klipschorn, but still ... If I were a complete novice, it would be difficult for me to examine these various solutions and make an informed choice, since the vendors haven't done anything to help me understand what the differences are, why they matter, and why one should be chosen over another. Just an observation.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Deang

[IB Slammin]

I am curious about that material John, does it solidify somewhat, like rubber?

 

Dear God man it's just RTV (Dow Corning 732) Black

(Christ, next time I'll use Grey).

 

 

I'm of the less technical here so bear with me.  Is this structural, to reduce vibration or have some other purpose?

[IB Slammin]

I am curious about that material John, does it solidify somewhat, like rubber?

 

Dear God man it's just RTV (Dow Corning 732) Black

(Christ, next time I'll use Grey).

 

 

I'm of the less technical here so bear with me.  Is this structural, to reduce vibration or have some other purpose?

[/q

[quote name="CECAA850" post="1930127" timestamp="1444165I am curious about that material John, does it solidify somewhat, like rubber?

Is the vib in boards a big thing ?????

tc

 

Dear God man it's just RTV (Dow Corning 732) Black

(Christ, next time I'll use Grey).

I'm of the less technical here so bear with me.  Is this structural, to reduce vibration or have some other purpose?

[Guest David H]

We now have three different ways of upgrading the top section of a Heritage Loudspeaker. I understand that John's is specific to the Klipschorn, but still ... If I were a complete novice, it would be difficult for me to examine these various solutions and make an informed choice, since the vendors haven't done anything to help me understand what the differences are, why they matter, and why one should be chosen over another. Just an observation.

 

I see your point Dean.

 

However, it is very difficult to point out differences, deficiencies, or points of interest, without attacking each others products.

 

Dave

[muel]

Buy one of each and decide for yourselves.

 

I'm being facetious but there is a lot you just won't know until you get it in YOUR system.  Hard to do a roadshow with those heavy horns.  The shipping cost would be a little high to borrow equipment for a week or two.   

[Guest David H]

Let me tell you what I like about John's set up.

 

I love that you are recommending the use of the DCM-50, absolutely fantastic driver. I recommend this driver to my customers regularly.

 

I really like that you designed a crossover that is not a direct copy of other vendors. Bravo.....

 

John is a passionate Klipsch guy. I have followed John's builds, projects and posts on this forum for a long time.

 

 

John, good luck in your endeavors.

 

Dave...............I need a vacation.

[Guest David H]

Buy one of each and decide for yourselves.

 

This is not going to help me get a vacation.

[John Warren]

 

We now have three different ways of upgrading the top section of a Heritage Loudspeaker. I understand that John's is specific to the Klipschorn, but still ... If I were a complete novice, it would be difficult for me to examine these various solutions and make an informed choice, since the vendors haven't done anything to help me understand what the differences are, why they matter, and why one should be chosen over another. Just an observation.

 

I see your point Dean.

 

However, it is very difficult to point out differences, deficiencies, or points of interest, without attacking each others products.

 

Dave

 

[John Warren]

Thank you Dave, your setting the example.

 

The B&C driver is awesome.  I have both it and the BMS unit here (the BMS is about 2X the cost).  The B&C unit is, hands down, the winner.  It's just sounds better. 

 

I interpreted Dean's comment as a challenge to better educate the customer as to why a particular feature is important.  For example "why" is a 2" throat in a horn an advantage over the 0.7 inch throat of the stock unit. Perhaps delve a bit deeper into why these things matter to the sound the system and how the product a supplier provides gets it there.  I didn't interpret as a comparison of one supplier to another nor would I go down that path.

[Guest David H]

The B&C driver is awesome. I have both it and the BMS unit here (the BMS is about 2X the cost). The B&C unit is, hands down, the winner. It's just sounds better.

 

I think its the treated paper diaphragm that makes DCM-50 so sweet, but I have no proof.

 

 

I interpreted Dean's comment as a challenge to better educate the customer as to why a particular feature is important. For example "why" is a 2" throat in a horn an advantage over the 0.7 inch throat of the stock unit.

 

I also interpreted Dean's suggestion to be constructive, however I may have misinterpreted the exact meaning.

 

Dave

[Deang]

I should have said "four different" alternative solutions.

As I read the information on John's site, I was struck by the similarity to the other available solutions. All boast use of a larger mid-driver, a larger horn, a different tweeter, and custom or advanced network design. While I understood much of what I read, I found myself struggling with some of it, I also found myself thinking, "Imagine trying to get through this with nothing underneath you."

So, there is that, and Dave is correct, I was alluding to that very thing, how does one explain and set apart their work or solution as being the most desirable -- and doing it in such a way that is both comprehensible and not irreverent to what the others are doing.

The average person is not an expert on any of these things, and in spite of knowing this in advance, we still speak to them as if they are.

Like I said, it was just an observation. Wading through some of the information is challenging, and then after navigating through it all, one must make what is supposed to be an "informed decision".

I'm curious about the autotransformer; it seems that all you have done is to reduce the number of output taps. This is just a guess, but I suppose restricting the choices in attenuation eliminates the possibility of choosing a setting that grossly impacts the crossover point. Unless I'm missing something (usually), it doesn't seem to be any different than the others. This allows you to skirt the use of the swamping resistor, but many of us have been doing that for years.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Deang

[Arkytype]

John,

 

I and some other forum members have no objection to using this venue to "hawk your wares". Having said that, the one hawking their wares is fair game for praise or criticism.

 

I won't start by criticizing your numerous grammar or spelling errors in your forum post and web site; instead let's start with how your "top-section baffle insert" is going to sound based upon your published data.

 

There are two frequency response graphs posted under KLIPSCHORN MIDRANGE, TWEETER AND NETWORK SOLUTIONS on your web site. They are annotated as 8-23-2015 11.34.23 AM and 8-23-2015 11.40.50 AM.

 

Both response curves show a 6-7 dB droop in the measured response between 2 kHz and 4 kHz. What gives?

 

The B&C data sheet for the DCM-50 shows no such droop; instead, the amplitude is seen rising starting at about 2 kHz and has a 4 dB or so peak just below 3 kHz. Granted, the B&C DCM-50 was tested with a 320 Hz exponential horn. So, either the Selenium horn or your network is causing an unacceptable dulling of vocals where our hearing is most sensitive.  

 

Lee

 

 

[Al Klappenberger]