Throw out those needles

[Jim Naseum]

"The current surge in LP sales is partly being driven by younger consumers. Industry researcher MusicWatch reports half of vinyl record buyers are under 25, and men are more likely to buy LPs than are women.........Digital strips out the tangibility of music. It really is just a file, and a record is such a great tangible piece. It's something you can hold, something you can touch, something you can listen to in a way that just putting something on your computer doesn't [compare to]," Rutkowski said.

"I think a lot of younger kids are just discovering vinyl. They were yearning for something different, and it's sort of a badge of what they listen to." - http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/06/why-millennials-are-buying-more-vinyl-records.html

Again, they are recognizing this aspect of tangibility - something to hold, trust, treasure. A feeling that files don't seem to engender. I doubt that anyone would try to dissuade stamp collectors by telling them they can view super HD images on line that are more stupendous looking than these little stamps.

This is not a technical issue, it's a psychological issue about what people trust and value.

[Don Richard]

The current surge in LP sales is partly being driven by younger consumers. Industry researcher MusicWatch reports half of vinyl record buyers are under 25, and men are more likely to buy LPs than are women

 

Hipsters trying to be cool is all. Rebelling against dad's CDs?

[minermark]

 

The current surge in LP sales is partly being driven by younger consumers. Industry researcher MusicWatch reports half of vinyl record buyers are under 25, and men are more likely to buy LPs than are women

 

Hipsters trying to be cool is all. Rebelling against dad's CDs?

 

Hipsters are idiots, we know that, we all grew up with that, Inversely Proportional comes to mind.

I'll never buy another piece of vinyl, nor gift one either.

Gift card? maybe.

We all have our taste, mine is durability.

I can throw a CD across the parking lot and likey play it just fine for it's lifetime.

[twk123]

 

The current surge in LP sales is partly being driven by younger consumers. Industry researcher MusicWatch reports half of vinyl record buyers are under 25, and men are more likely to buy LPs than are women

 

Hipsters trying to be cool is all. Rebelling against dad's CDs?

 

 

Lol 70% of my LPs were my Dads and 25% were my Uncles. The only Vinyl I have bought was Slightly Stoopid, Tool Lateralus and Pretty Lights. I think the main factor for Vinyl for the youth is the Heritage of music and having the physical media. Especially for Classic Rock, there is just something about holding the actual Led Zeppelin IV album and hearing it in the manner it was originally released. As others have mentioned, its more of a social aspect as well due to the nature of Vinyl almost requiring a full listening session of an album. It becomes an event to go over to your buddy's place and listen to a record together and chill and hear the whole thing through. I remember when my friend is College got a vinyl press of Notorious BIG: Greatest hits and we waited all day until everyone could get together to throw it on. Especially also since its such as pain in the a** to have 5 kids surrounding a laptop at a party and arguing over what song to play next.

 

The physical aspect is also interesting as even when we had CDs, 90% of them were burned so there was no real connection anyway. If I go through my old CD collection only a few were actually bought and the rest were cheap CD-R's with sharpie written on them.

 

The other issue is most kids simply are using their laptop soundcards which sound like garbage so Vinyl sounds much better in comparison. The more quality DACs become more popular I can see Vinyl begin to fade. I know I have only listened to a couple of albums since I got my DAC simply because my digital setup sounds better and I have an almost infinite supply of material on Spotify (Fidelify with WASAPI connection actually.) 

[wvu80]

 

"The current surge in LP sales is partly being driven by younger consumers.

 

Industry researcher MusicWatch reports half of vinyl record buyers are under 25, and men are more likely to buy LPs than are women.........

 

 

I find their conclusions questionable.  I checked the link and all I saw was an unsubstantiated claim, no research.  No source, no time frame for the purchasing period, no information on the number of subjects in the study.

 

Think about it.  Who tracks statistics of exactly what age of person buys an album?  When was the last time you bought a record and you had to give your age?

 

That "research" as presented looks like   .

[Mighty Favog]

 

 

The current surge in LP sales is partly being driven by younger consumers. Industry researcher MusicWatch reports half of vinyl record buyers are under 25, and men are more likely to buy LPs than are women

 

Hipsters trying to be cool is all. Rebelling against dad's CDs?

 

 

We all have our taste, mine is durability.

I can throw a CD across the parking lot and likey play it just fine for it's lifetime.

 

LOL!! Back when I worked selling stereo equipment we were in the very early stages of CD's and players (83'-84'). As a demonstration I took one I was playing and whizzed it across the sound room (remember those?) and it shattered into 3-4 pieces.        (whoops )

[oldtimer]

If credit cards were used for the purchases you'd better believe they know all about the demographics.

 

How have you been

never mind we know how you've been...

Edited January 8, 2016 by oldtimer

[Mallette]

I can throw a CD across the parking lot and likey play it just fine for it's lifetime.

 

I can cart a 90 year old record all over the country that looks like it's been laying in a parking lot for years, put it on my turntable and MAGIC comes forth and I am in 1922 for 3 minutes listening to Kid Ory more close up and personal that through any other medium.

 

Dave

[oldtimer]

 

I can throw a CD across the parking lot and likey play it just fine for it's lifetime.

 

I can cart a 90 year old record all over the country that looks like it's been laying in a parking lot for years, put it on my turntable and MAGIC comes forth and I am in 1922 for 3 minutes listening to Kid Ory more close up and personal that through any other medium.

 

Dave

 

You're clearly just an old hipster.

[minermark]

 

I can throw a CD across the parking lot and likey play it just fine for it's lifetime.

 

I can cart a 90 year old record all over the country that looks like it's been laying in a parking lot for years, put it on my turntable and MAGIC comes forth and I am in 1922 for 3 minutes listening to Kid Ory more close up and personal that through any other medium.

 

Dave

 

And i can (AS well as anyone else) Rip with a push of a button the same tune with NO PoPs, Scratches, warps, out of center, in it's pure form and with another push of a button bounce it off a Satillite and send to my Pub in Ireland.

I love and USE Tech>  

 

And as a side note, in this hobby, only being ONE of mine, the dominate attitude always comes through in some, the SUTA Syndrom.

Well placed and every one has their reason(s) for feeling so. iv no problem with that, i just know it's widespread on this forum.

Comes with the hobby and the pocket book.

[JJkizak]

 

I can throw a CD across the parking lot and likey play it just fine for it's lifetime.

 

I can cart a 90 year old record all over the country that looks like it's been laying in a parking lot for years, put it on my turntable and MAGIC comes forth and I am in 1922 for 3 minutes listening to Kid Ory more close up and personal that through any other medium.

 

Dave

 

 

And I have 432 LP's in my computer room and the magic is that  I never have to play them forever.

JJK

[minermark]

 

 

I can throw a CD across the parking lot and likey play it just fine for it's lifetime.

 

I can cart a 90 year old record all over the country that looks like it's been laying in a parking lot for years, put it on my turntable and MAGIC comes forth and I am in 1922 for 3 minutes listening to Kid Ory more close up and personal that through any other medium.

 

Dave

 

 

And I have 432 LP's in my computer room and the magic is that  I never have to play them forever.

JJK

 

I have the utmost admiration for a man that uses the engineering of the day, be it spinning plastic or pushin a button, Tech is amazing.

[Mallette]

And i can (AS well as anyone else) Rip with a push of a button the same tune with NO PoPs, Scratches, warps, out of center, in it's pure form and with another push of a button bounce it off a Satillite and send to my Pub in Ireland. I love and USE Tech>

 

And I can listen to the music with NO PoPs, Scrtaches, warps (78's don't warp), out of center, in its pure form with the drop of a needle.  I hear none of those things when I listen to music.  Why would I want to? 

 

I've only heard a few transfers that were worth a dam.  Most try to "fix" what doesn't need fixing and the music is degraded. 

 

Same is true for LPs.  For the music lover, they don't need fixing, just playing.  For me, the medium is NOT the message.  The music is the message. 

 

Dave

[Jim Naseum]

The passions embraced by music lovers, collectors, HiFi buffs (never call them "audiophiles") are all patchworks of many elements that are mixed and matched by each individual. Clearly most of them will all say they "love music" but that's no hint at all regarding their individual practices and preferences. Back when "liner notes" with visible and readable on a record cover, often all that information, or reviews, tidbits, or pictures, was also part of the enjoyment of the record. And that doesn't yet cover "cover art" another angle in this business of appreciating things. I noticed the other day that a particular gatefold album and even had a certain smell, a hint at the paper and time.

 

I read an interesting discussion about "super stampers" the other day - superior particular stampings of an album version other stampings, and in it, was a discussion of what is the authentic event? Is it the sound of the album per se, or is it an attempt at somehow conjuring up the live event as would have been hear by say, the man in the control room? Many are hooked on the idea that what counts is the sound of the album. In other words, THAT is the medium, not a conjuring of another event. I rather like that idea that the album is it's own thing and that we play them intrinsically, not use them to imagine some other event. This also allows then for the enjoyment of say, less than perfect (the standard is always arbitrary anyhow) records. 

 

Amazon is one huge company, that is for sure. This past holiday season the #1 selling item in the photography department was Fuji Instamax pack film. I bought two boxes myself. it's a camera that produces one-off gems. It makes an artifact in real time of which there is just the one - no copies. When you take someone's picture with this, and they watch it develop in their hand, they instinctively understand that what they are holding is a one of a kind thing. And, it instantly takes on quite a high value. No one ever leaves them lying at the table at a party. This is what I think is the drive for authenticity and value that digital doesn't comprehend or serve. I find it quite related to the whole "analog movement". 

 

The value of music is approaching zero. That is, as more and more streaming services enter the market, the inherent value of any song approaches zero. When all 12 Billion songs are available on your phone, the value will be zero. And what I know about people is that they dispose of the valueless and hang on to the valuable. It's their nature to hold a gold coin over a paper bill. A few musicians have clearly understood the free-fall to zero value of their music. And they will have a difficult time restoring value. Meanwhile, collectors and enthusiasts will continue to collect those unique artifacts, like records, which represent still some intrinsic value. And, it's fun, as Mr. Mallette as amply described. There is a TON of interesting music on 78s for example that is being digitized to YouTube. But what better way to enjoy them - as a file, or having the record (first finding it - a whole other adventure) and a way to play it?

Edited January 8, 2016 by jo56steph74

[Jim Naseum]

The condition of old artifacts is simply part of their authenticity. For instance, if you find a rare old coin, and decide to polish and buff it up, you just ruined the value of the coin. Perhaps by as much as 90% or more. Likewise with photographs. I like to find old photographs in antique or junk shops. I wouldn't dream of taking the old photo, and retouching it with hand paints or fixitives trying to restore it look like new. it's value is the uniqueness, which includes it's condition and flaws. Oddly, or maybe even paradoxically, "old yellowed photo" is one of the most popular filters in instagram, and Photoshop. Making the new look more interesting and valuable by purposely making it look old. The popularity of Lomography is based on using plastic toy cameras to create errors and mistakes on film to make the picture look like they came our of a 1950 Brownie.  Funny, isn't it? The hunt for false authenticity, when the real thing is all around you. I think this demonstrates how this desire manifests itself in so many people. They take a high tech cell phone, shoot a picture, then try to make it look as old as possible and send it out for the approval of others. I am not chastising them. It's cool. But, I am using it to show the desire for authenticity. Something of value. 

 

Premise: The digital world works by devaluing and then distributing this devalued nothingness to every person on earth. 

[minermark]

Well, i go along with Mr Malletts description just fine. it's the music we are all after in the end.

 

And im quite happy with the fact no one i hope took bringing up the SUTA factor, in the wrong way.

No one wants to be in that class or thought of that way, preception is a hell of a thing, passion, pefered, or just the way it is implied. in the end, it's the tunes.

 

Quite frankly i go broke constantly buying every tune i get a tip from on this forum.

In that way alone i saved thousands.

[Mallette]

And im quite happy with the fact no one i hope took bringing up the SUTA factor, in the wrong way.

 

Not at all, Mark.  Great discussion, IMHO, and most Klipsch-like!  If we all were in perfect alignment we'd have nothing to discuss.

 

Dave

Edited January 8, 2016 by Mallette

[Mallette]

Premise: The digital world works by devaluing and then distributing this devalued nothingness to every person on earth.

 

You've written some brilliant stuff, some of the best I've read in my extensive association with you.

 

This concept should be published.  It's dead on, IMHO.

 

Dave

[twk123]

The condition of old artifacts is simply part of their authenticity. For instance, if you find a rare old coin, and decide to polish and buff it up, you just ruined the value of the coin. Perhaps by as much as 90% or more. Likewise with photographs. I like to find old photographs in antique or junk shops. I wouldn't dream of taking the old photo, and retouching it with hand paints or fixitives trying to restore it look like new. it's value is the uniqueness, which includes it's condition and flaws. Oddly, or maybe even paradoxically, "old yellowed photo" is one of the most popular filters in instagram, and Photoshop. Making the new look more interesting and valuable by purposely making it look old. The popularity of Lomography is based on using plastic toy cameras to create errors and mistakes on film to make the picture look like they came our of a 1950 Brownie.  Funny, isn't it? The hunt for false authenticity, when the real thing is all around you. I think this demonstrates how this desire manifests itself in so many people. They take a high tech cell phone, shoot a picture, then try to make it look as old as possible and send it out for the approval of others. I am not chastising them. It's cool. But, I am using it to show the desire for authenticity. Something of value. 

 

Premise: The digital world works by devaluing and then distributing this devalued nothingness to every person on earth. 

 

Very interesting. This reminds me of a comment by the famous photographer Jerry Ghionis who is a big advocate of printing photos. Anyway, he said, "If we are ever hit by an EMP and years later when aliens etc came to look at our planet, they would not even know the last 10 years existed because its all digital..."

 

Costco Printing is awesome by the way.

[thebes]

You know if they supplied a Soundforge click and scratch software streaming filter with that price some people might jump on it. What about the rumble, wow, pitch correction for off center holes, warps, high frequency noise, RIAA curves, optical error rates?

JJK

Bunkem

 

You want a mess go digital.  to quote myself (and who else would a Thebes quote?):

 

"It's certainly simpler, and technically can sound much better than vinyls except for one glaring problem.  Subliminal distortion.  I always want to turn up the sound when I'm playing a record, but I almost always end of lowering the sound a bit when I'm playing a cd.  To me that's distortion at play.  Cd's at concert levels make my skin crawl. And, yes, I have cd playback of a similar quality to my vinyls playback.

 

That's why, aside from my car radio, I play about 95% wax.

Or try ignoring the grit and sand tossed into my ear canal by a typical cd played through most even high-end playback systems. Add a soupcon of steel while you're at it. Oh and a so subtle electrical distortion that will have you starting off at a reasonable hearing level, only to quickly surrender to fatigue, and crank that sucker down low, where the grating on nerves begins to ease.

Let's face it, lots of lps are easier on the ears, provide better overall sound, soundstage and musicality. Me, I don't want to hear every friggin note on a recording, I want music. Now if you live in some mechanical, mathematical spatial universe inhabited by those whose clothes are neatly ironed at all times, then puleeze drown yourself in digitalis. Me, I'm not ascared of some pops an whistles as I slide down the rabbit hole of musical nirvana.

Oh yes, the digital realm is such a safe place to put important things.  Like a bank vault made of swiss cheese.

 

Whistle while ye may, because after your zeros and ones all disappear, you'll have to entertain yourself by whistling, whilst I spin a platter."