Shot Gorilla - ?What Sub-Moron designed.....

[Karsoncookie]

 

my favorite article on the topic..

 

http://www.scarymommy.com/justiceforharambe-gorilla-shot/

 

And, my favorite meme...

 

CjsQHxIWsAARdZs.jpg

 

 

Ya, poor guy wrong place wrong time..

 

Very unfortunate, to kill a part of amazing Creation, no matter who your "Creator" is.    Lars

[Karsoncookie]

Human life is generally considered more "valuable" than others..

 

Even though I definately basically agree (hierarchy wise), I still try to catch moths and some others in the house safely, and gently toss the cup outside.

 

Have you ever thought about, generally , usually speaking, the physically smaller the creature, the less "importance" is attached to it ??

 

Please read the above again.

 

 

Step on and crush the body of an Ant, nobody I know thinks twice.

 

Hit and drive over a Turtle, or Squirrel on the road, "some" level of guilt is typical.

 

How about a Domestic Dog, or, (YARRRRRRRR) even a Cat ??? (for you Cat people) 

 

I know I have been VERY upset for wrongfully ( albeit accidentally)stopping a Life 

 

I'm pretty confident thats how most feel.

 

We (including ME) gets upset when some silly guy in Africa "Trophy" hunting kills a known Lion (NO better or "higher" value than an un named one BTW)

 

And also, when a Gorilla is killed in Cincinnatti after a thought out decision (favoring the Boy's over the Gorrilla's life)

 

ALL Life is valuable.   Lars

[Karsoncookie]

Dang, somebody stop me.    Lars

[willland]

While I do agree many parties are responsible for what happened the other day, it happened and it was a tragedy.  The zoo could build better barriers, the parents could parent better, the gorilla should have cradled the child and stroked it gently on the forhead and not dragged it by the foot/leg like a rag doll through the moat, the response team should have reasoned with the gorilla and asked it nicely to release the boy.

 

We all second guess things but we were not there as far as I know.

 

Bill

[JJkizak]

Geez, and I thought the gorilla saved the kid from drowning.

JJK

[Thaddeus Smith]

This wasn't a result of bad parenting, get that notion out of your heads (and re-read my link once again)

[wvu80]

This wasn't a result of bad parenting, get that notion out of your heads (and re-read my link once again)

 

Here is your link from scareymommy.com under "justice for Harambe"

http://www.scarymommy.com/justiceforharambe-gorilla-shot/

 

This delves into the parental responsibility part of this discussion.

+++

 

The article makes the point that "what parent hasn't had a 4 yo child disappear into the clothes rack at the mall?"  And therefore having a 4 yo child dart into the gorilla pit at the zoo is no different. 

 

Well, it IS different and it IS "bad" parenting, even though I never use that term.  There is NO question the mother was irresponsible that day and it almost cost the life of her child.

 

I don't know the facts so I'll quote the blog in the link above.  It states: 

the mother Brittany Nicely, a witness at the zoo, told The New York Times that the whole thing happened so fast and the mother had not been neglectful.

 

“She had three other kids that she was with. She had a baby in her arms,” said Ms. Nicely. The boy was in the pen in “the blink of an eye,” she said.  (bolding mine)

 

 

I disagree with the witness.  A parent MUST be responsible for her children. 

 

If she took a total of 4 children to an environment with dangerous animals including a baby, she MUST be able to control those children at all times, no matter what.  It was her responsibility to know that 4 kids including an infant was too much for one person (no mention of another adult) at the zoo!  If it's too much for her to handle she must leave one or more of the children at home.

 

In her defense she relied to her detriment on the zoo to keep the animals safely separated from guests.  That is a valid point.  I still put the responsibility ultimately on the parent to control her children and keep them safe.  She failed to do that.

 

I see a law suit against the zoo coming.

 

What say you, Klipschite Forum lawyers?  Would you take the case, and would you win a big settlement for negligence on the part of the zoo?

Edited June 1, 2016 by wvu80

[CECAA850]

Dave, it's un-American to take responsibility for your own actions.  It's always someone else's fault.   Of course there'll be a lawsuit, dollar signs are dancing through heads like sugar plums on Christmas eve.

[CECAA850]

my favorite article on the topic..

 

http://www.scarymommy.com/justiceforharambe-gorilla-shot/

 

 

Because you can see this happening to your daughter?

[Mighty Favog]

Responsible parents keep an eye on their kids. Freeways are dangerous too.

 

Kids should have to wear a lease with harness attached to their parents with a harness.

 

 

Keith

 

Back when I used to work retail in a department store, parents would come in with their kids and just let them loose to "go play" wherever and do whatever they wanted.

 

Of course they would trash the shelved stock we just spent most of the day straightening and management would come in and say we never straightened it at all, etc.... Inevitably, these same kids would climb all over the exercise gear in my department: exercise bikes, ski-machines, weight benches, etc.  I would walk up them and ask "How many of those are you going to buy?" They answer sheepishly "None." To which I say "Then, why are you on it?"

 

Don't even get me going about the teenagers that would tear a basketball out of a its box and shoot hoops in the backboard displays in the isles....

Edited June 1, 2016 by Mighty Favog

[Mighty Favog]

 

This wasn't a result of bad parenting, get that notion out of your heads (and re-read my link once again)

 

Here is your link from scareymommy.com under "justice for Harambe"

http://www.scarymommy.com/justiceforharambe-gorilla-shot/

 

This delves into the parental responsibility part of this discussion.

+++

 

The article makes the point that "what parent hasn't had a 4 yo child disappear into the clothes rack at the mall?"  And therefore having a 4 yo child dart into the gorilla pit at the zoo is no different. 

 

Well, it IS different and it IS "bad" parenting, even though I never use that term.  There is NO question the mother was irresponsible that day and it almost cost the life of her child.

 

I don't know the facts so I'll quote the blog in the link above.  It states: 

the mother Brittany Nicely, a witness at the zoo, told The New York Times that the whole thing happened so fast and the mother had not been neglectful.

 

“She had three other kids that she was with. She had a baby in her arms,” said Ms. Nicely. The boy was in the pen in “the blink of an eye,” she said.  (bolding mine)

 

 

I disagree with the witness.  A parent MUST be responsible for her children. 

 

If she took a total of 4 children to an environment with dangerous animals including a baby, she MUST be able to control those children at all times, no matter what.  It was her responsibility to know that 4 kids including an infant was too much for one person (no mention of another adult) at the zoo!  If it's too much for her to handle she must leave one or more of the children at home.

 

In her defense she relied to her detriment on the zoo to keep the animals safely separated from guests.  That is a valid point.  I still put the responsibility ultimately on the parent to control her children and keep them safe.  She failed to do that.

 

I see a law suit against the zoo coming.

 

What say you, Klipschite Forum lawyers?  Would you take the case, and would you win a big settlement for negligence on the part of the zoo?

 

 

I'm not a lawyer but I do hear quite a few cases where I work (court reporting company). If it were up to me "contributory negligence" may be brought up as a finding.

 

But how that 4-year old fell 15-feet into the moat and not get seriously hurt is a miracle.

 

[CECAA850]

I see a law suit against the zoo coming.

 

 

How about this.  A counter lawsuit against the mother for negligence in properly supervising her child causing the death of the zoos asset.  Never happen but the best defense is always a good offense.

[Thaddeus Smith]

 

my favorite article on the topic..

 

http://www.scarymommy.com/justiceforharambe-gorilla-shot/

 

 

Because you can see this happening to your daughter?

 

 

Precisely so! I have a 4 year old, a super hyperactive one at that, and I watch her like a hawk - but she's smart and inquisitive, and in spite of my best efforts she gets away from me at times. Throw in the chaos of a Zoo environment (which we did just the day before going to Hope) and this incident is entirely within the realm of possibility for anyone to be in this situation. you mean, people aren't perfect? CRUCIFY, CRUCIFY, CRUCIFY!!!

 

All of you should be quite relieved you're not having to parent in The Age of Facebook.

[CECAA850]

and I watch her like a hawk - but she's smart and inquisitive, and in spite of my best efforts she gets away from me at times. 

 

Does you level of attention increase in areas that may be potentially dangerous to her?  Do you see her getting away from you at a busy intersection or at the beach?

[Paducah Home Theater]

Have you ever thought about, generally , usually speaking, the physically smaller the creature, the less "importance" is attached to it ??

 

Please read the above again.

 

 

Step on and crush the body of an Ant, nobody I know thinks twice.

 

Hit and drive over a Turtle, or Squirrel on the road, "some" level of guilt is typical.

 

How about a Domestic Dog, or, (YARRRRRRRR) even a Cat ??? (for you Cat people) 

 

I know I have been VERY upset for wrongfully ( albeit accidentally)stopping a Life 

 

I'm pretty confident thats how most feel.

 

We (including ME) gets upset when some silly guy in Africa "Trophy" hunting kills a known Lion (NO better or "higher" value than an un named one BTW)

 

And also, when a Gorilla is killed in Cincinnatti after a thought out decision (favoring the Boy's over the Gorrilla's life)

 

ALL Life is valuable.   Lars

 

It's way more complicated than that.  We tend to better value creatures that society deems to have a personality, are intelligent, not deemed a nuisance, are branded to be innocent, are good looking, and are at least somewhat endangered.  

 

For example a Labrador earns more points than a coyote even if it is the same size and about as biologically related and similar as you can get.  

 

A manatee earns more points than a shark even if it is the same size.  

 

A box turtle earns more points than a chicken even though they weigh about the same, and if anything the chicken looks way bigger.  

 

A cat usually earns more points than a possum even if it is the same size, at least in the US.  

 

Over in Europe, possums are viewed much differently and more people get upset over them, many places don't view them as a nuisance like we do.  

 

Interestingly, an eagle earns WAY more points than a buzzard.  But why?  Forget about eagles being endangered for a minute, buzzards are protected too.  Eagles will eat dead and bloated fish just as readily as a buzzard.  They can be the same size, about the same color, both are birds... one is viewed as being majestic, the other is virtually worthless and are only not shot or purposely hit with a vehicle because it's illegal but when it happens, nobody cares.  When somebody hits an eagle, people are ready to crucify the driver.  

 

Also interesting is that pigs are incredibly intelligent and make great pets, yet we don't think twice about turning them into bacon.  

 

What's fascinating is that all this can change in other countries.  They'll eat dogs, worship cows, coddle possums, all kinds of stuff that would seem weird over here.  

 

Also consider the movie "Blackfish".  Prior to this, nobody really cared about orcas, just a pretty small number of people in society.  Produce this movie that shows that they cried over their babies, suffered from depression, and exhibited other human emotions, and so many people boycott SeaWorld that they about go out of business.  

Edited June 1, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[muel]

Parents don't/can't control kids. Not from the day they are born... you don't control when they sleep or cry... the only kind of control you have is that you are physically bigger than they are.  They and we are all individuals with brains and independent thought.  We can offer consequences for wrong behavior and reward good behavior.  They are going to mess up sometimes.  Unfortunately, there was a bad outcome this time.   

[CECAA850]

A 4 year old does not know the consequences of their actions, that's the parents job.  Assess the level of danger and protect their child accordingly.

[CECAA850]

Playing devils advocate here.  If the mother was standing next to the child, told him no and he bolted, you really can't blame her.  I'd like to read the police report.

[paul79]

Ya, much as one would like to blame parents, I can't imagine whomever would, has children. This is taking this particular situation into consideration, of course, and is my opinion on this situation. Stuff happens, and unfortunately, this is one of the times the outcome was bad. It is what it is.

 

Like me, when I was around 2 years old, I unlocked and walked out the door at like 3 in the morning. Nobody was awake to be a "responsible parent". I was found walking down the street by a cop, and my responsible parents followed the cherries and there I was, sitting in the cop car. The cop completely understood, and nothing came of it. What would happen given this same situation in these modern times? Who knows.....

Edited June 1, 2016 by paul79

[Paducah Home Theater]

Like me, when I was around 2 years old, I unlocked and walked out the door at like 3 in the morning. Nobody was awake to be a "responsible parent". I was found walking down the street by a cop, and my responsible parents followed the cherries and there I was, sitting in the cop car. The cop completely understood, and nothing came of it. What would happen given this same situation in these modern times? Who knows.....

I used to be big into off-road vehicles about 15 years ago and was working on my jeep very late one night. I came inside to take a break and watched TV for awhile probably around midnight. I hear something faint, happened to look at the front door which had one of those lever style handles, and it was turning, very slowly, slow enough that I could sit there and think and reason about what was going on, and came to the conclusion that somebody was trying to break in. It seemed like a perfectly rational decision at the time, it was creepy as hell. I quietly retrieve my shotgun, went back to where I was, and sat there with the bead on the door, watching it slowly open after the door knob was turned all the way.

Lo and behold, in pops a 2-year old. We were renting a mobile home on the edge of my property to some people with a kid. Everybody was asleep but she woke up and simply decided she wanted to come play. She unlocked the front door of the mobile home, walked across the yard, and came in. Could have happened to anybody, and it could have ended up much worse. Nevermind about the shotgun, can you imagine a 2 year old bolting across the highway at midnight and getting hit? The parents probably would have went to prison nowadays had something happened.

Kids have no knowledge of and much less fear of situations that seem insane to adults, and you can't always stop them.

Edited June 1, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters