Shiva Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Im all for safe and sane solutions, but I am also for the more wild and deliberate solutions mentioned as well. What I don't like is the skewed notion that there is some eye in the sky and the all powerful game wardens are somehow always watching and one should be very afraid of getting in trouble. They will see whatever you do, even under trees, in your own backyard and you will pay for it. Its like the thinking that there police are at every corner and if one drives 10 miles over the speed limit, you will get a ticket, so harbor fear instead of joyfully hitting the gas now and then. They are in fact not everywhere and promoting fear is not the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Im all for safe and sane solutions, but I am also for the more wild and deliberate solutions mentioned as well. What I don't like is the skewed notion that there is some eye in the sky and the all powerful game wardens are somehow always watching and one should be very afraid of getting in trouble. They will see whatever you do, even under trees, in your own backyard and you will pay for it. Its like the thinking that there police are at every corner and if one drives 10 miles over the speed limit, you will get a ticket, so harbor fear instead of joyfully hitting the gas now and then. They are in fact not everywhere and promoting fear is not the way. Make sure you have a cell phone jammer so your neighbors won't photograph you. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Researched these for my own chickens and the general consensus among chicken forums is that they don't work. My in-laws used their owl statue trying to keep the huge black crows out of the gigantic garden they had. Didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 (edited) I dunno...The funny thing about Laws are you need folks to enforce them and how effective is having laws if anyone of us can choose to break the ones we don't like? Btw, I am not being judgemental and have done my share of going over the speed limit, but shooting/killing a bird that is protected isn't something I would do unless at the moment of attack.... Fwiw, I like the umbrella idea. Edited June 27, 2016 by Zen Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniper Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I would just keep them off balance if you are worried, get a rcv of your choice and confuse them, then get into your car.......Depending on the type it might be considered harassment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted June 28, 2016 Would the search warrant be searching for a stuffed hawk? Im confused what they would look for. For starters computers and cell phones which they would sieze and do fornsic searchs for photos of crime, emails admitting the crime, or, believe it or not, facebook or other public forum entries discussing, planning or information about how to commit the crime or how to avoid detection of the crime. They would look for any internet searchs for hawks, killing hawks, etc. Then on to guns, and on and on. In order to get the arrest/search warrant they have to have probable cause, which they get from the rat fink little old lady who lives next door with nothing better to do then spy on you and volunteer twice a week at the Audubon Society answering phones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted June 28, 2016 Im all for safe and sane solutions, but I am also for the more wild and deliberate solutions mentioned as well. What I don't like is the skewed notion that there is some eye in the sky and the all powerful game wardens are somehow always watching and one should be very afraid of getting in trouble. They will see whatever you do, even under trees, in your own backyard and you will pay for it. Its like the thinking that there police are at every corner and if one drives 10 miles over the speed limit, you will get a ticket, so harbor fear instead of joyfully hitting the gas now and then. They are in fact not everywhere and promoting fear is not the way. Hmmmm, equating a speeding ticket with a federal crime, those are two entirely different worlds. The game wardens dont ever witness the shooting of the bird, or practically never. That's not how any crime typically goes down where people get caught. The way it typically goes down is that people can't keep quiet about things and shoot their mouth off about it. As luck would have it you only wound the bird and it flys off and dies in front yard of neighbor's house and traumatizes her kids and she calls police. Some do-gooder offers 10,000 reward for info leading to arrest. Your wife never really liked you that much and turns you in for the 10K but has to split reward with your best friend who also turned you in. That's how it works in the real world. People are stupid and think "well they can't be watching everywhere all the time" Which ignors the other issue, there may be a 1% chance of getting caught, no neighbors, etc. The statute of limitations is 5 years. Every time you seena cop coming down the street, in your rear view mirror you are for at least a split second going to think "must be that bird thing." Ten miles over the speed limit, wow, "danger" must be your middle name. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted June 28, 2016 You just really can't make this stuff up. Golf pro drives over to golf course to make instructional video, while heading over there he drives 10 to 15 mph over speed limit. During the making of video hawks starts squawking at him, golf pro loses it, starts whacking balls in hawk's direction, and on 10th attempt ball hits hawk and kills it. Golf pro is surprised feds found out he killed hawk (with film crew filming and capturing whole thing on video). Golf pro is surprised there was a media reaction and public outcry. The hawk was slowing production down, really, really bad. Not reported, golf course cut tree down so pubic wouldn't leave any more tributes to hawk at the location. http://news.cybergolf.com/golf_news/isenhour_sentenced_in_bird_killing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Im all for safe and sane solutions, but I am also for the more wild and deliberate solutions mentioned as well. What I don't like is the skewed notion that there is some eye in the sky and the all powerful game wardens are somehow always watching and one should be very afraid of getting in trouble. They will see whatever you do, even under trees, in your own backyard and you will pay for it. Its like the thinking that there police are at every corner and if one drives 10 miles over the speed limit, you will get a ticket, so harbor fear instead of joyfully hitting the gas now and then. They are in fact not everywhere and promoting fear is not the way. Hmmmm, equating a speeding ticket with a federal crime, those are two entirely different worlds. The game wardens dont ever witness the shooting of the bird, or practically never. That's not how any crime typically goes down where people get caught. The way it typically goes down is that people can't keep quiet about things and shoot their mouth off about it. As luck would have it you only wound the bird and it flys off and dies in front yard of neighbor's house and traumatizes her kids and she calls police. Some do-gooder offers 10,000 reward for info leading to arrest. Your wife never really liked you that much and turns you in for the 10K but has to split reward with your best friend who also turned you in. That's how it works in the real world. People are stupid and think "well they can't be watching everywhere all the time" Which ignors the other issue, there may be a 1% chance of getting caught, no neighbors, etc. The statute of limitations is 5 years. Every time you seena cop coming down the street, in your rear view mirror you are for at least a split second going to think "must be that bird thing." Ten miles over the speed limit, wow, "danger" must be your middle name. Pretty much this. The hawks dont even swoop on us anymore. In any case for all the online bravado its not worth risking a felony over a bird. Much less having to kill one or two and knowing you just wrecked a family in front of your wife or if the chick is still alive hear it cry until the end. That stuff is not cool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) Would the search warrant be searching for a stuffed hawk? Im confused what they would look for.For starters computers and cell phones which they would sieze and do fornsic searchs for photos of crime, emails admitting the crime, or, believe it or not, facebook or other public forum entries discussing, planning or information about how to commit the crime or how to avoid detection of the crime. They would look for any internet searchs for hawks, killing hawks, etc.Then on to guns, and on and on. In order to get the arrest/search warrant they have to have probable cause, which they get from the rat fink little old lady who lives next door with nothing better to do then spy on you and volunteer twice a week at the Audubon Society answering phones. Don't the forget the 8"X10" color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one, explaining what each one was, to be used as evidence against us..... Edited June 28, 2016 by Mighty Favog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiva Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Hmmmm, equating a speeding ticket with a federal crime, those are two entirely different worlds. This story of the swooping hawk drew my attention because of some of the fear responses that were posted. The "don't do anything, you will get in trouble." replies. Which are all an attempt to instill ones own or societal fears into another and to make one more afraid of living freely. The responses I did like, whether they were ever acted upon or not, were "do what you need to do, just be smart and be discrete." Those are not fear based responses, just an awareness of the world we live in, the nature of other human beings and to be intelligent about what you do. The similarities between a speeding ticket and this federal crime, is fear. Whether one is afraid to hit the gas or afraid of taking out a couple of birds, the commonality is the fear of getting caught. As well, both laws mentioned are similar in that they were all just invented in a room of old men, saying Ok, lets make this a law, a gavel is banged, some scribe scribbles it down on paper and its then added to some book sitting on a shelf and now we have a new law. Whether state or federal, they are both just ink print in a book. In the Vastness of Time, they are all just Dust in the Wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Would playing a couple of very loud speakers aimed at the nest force them to move? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ok so they Cold War with the Hawk continues. We had a truce for a few days and then a few minutes ago I was going to bring the trash in from the street and was bout 100 yards from my house walking away and was swooped on unprovoked from behind. I made a determination not to be bested by the creature so I watched him perch as I came back to my house. Then I had to go out again to throw a trash bag away and I knew exactly what direction he would be coming from and the only vector of attack he could make. Sure enough he thought he was sneaking up on me and I turned around and threw my arms up and yelled at him which made it hit the brakes and drift back away. He then circled around as we eyed each other. Today was a sound morale victory against the hawk who was beaten at his own hawkish game. He was outwitted and he knows it. I am going to try to get some photos of it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted June 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ok so they Cold War with the Hawk continues. We had a truce for a few days and then a few minutes ago I was going to bring the trash in from the street and was bout 100 yards from my house walking away and was swooped on unprovoked from behind. I made a determination not to be bested by the creature so I watched him perch as I came back to my house. Then I had to go out again to throw a trash bag away and I knew exactly what direction he would be coming from and the only vector of attack he could make. Sure enough he thought he was sneaking up on me and I turned around and threw my arms up and yelled at him which made it hit the brakes and drift back away. He then circled around as we eyed each other. Today was a sound morale victory against the hawk who was beaten at his own hawkish game. He was outwitted and he knows it. I am going to try to get some photos of it soon. Now that was a brave move. I don't know as I would have trusted that waiving arms would be enough to deter a swoop/attack, but I am glad it did. Now is when it would be nice to have a helmet with a Go-Pro mounted on it. I wouldn think a drone could capture this all pretty good. Does it appear that your property is the only one he is dive bombing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ok so they Cold War with the Hawk continues. We had a truce for a few days and then a few minutes ago I was going to bring the trash in from the street and was bout 100 yards from my house walking away and was swooped on unprovoked from behind. I made a determination not to be bested by the creature so I watched him perch as I came back to my house. Then I had to go out again to throw a trash bag away and I knew exactly what direction he would be coming from and the only vector of attack he could make. Sure enough he thought he was sneaking up on me and I turned around and threw my arms up and yelled at him which made it hit the brakes and drift back away. He then circled around as we eyed each other. Today was a sound morale victory against the hawk who was beaten at his own hawkish game. He was outwitted and he knows it. I am going to try to get some photos of it soon. Now that was a brave move. I don't know as I would have trusted that waiving arms would be enough to deter a swoop/attack, but I am glad it did. Now is when it would be nice to have a helmet with a Go-Pro mounted on it. I wouldn think a drone could capture this all pretty good. Does it appear that your property is the only one he is dive bombing? I have a 'straw' wide brimmed sun hat made out of plastic I always wear now with sunglasses so if anything my head and eyes are protected. I also have cats so I think I am kind of conditioned to not be afraid of claws etc. So far he will only swoop if he has the element of surprise and if he knows I am watching him he wont make his move. The thing is the nest is in a giant tree directly over our house. I honestly think he has targeted me exclusively as he has not swooped my wife yet and I have not heard anything about the neighbors getting harassed. I dont even go out of my way to bother it either, it just goes after me. He has had the chance to actually strike me a few times too but he only swoops low by my head so hopefully he keeps to that. I have my telephoto on my 7D ready and will try to snap some shots if he circles around again. I figured out he needs a straight line of attack past me for a proper swoop so as long as I hug a wall or car etc he cant come directly at me either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 It's just a warning/chase off/stay away maneuver. Knowing that does not make it any less unnerving, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Ok, here are some older hawk photos so you can actually see what it looks like. They really are pretty majestic birds: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 What's their wingspan ? Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twk123 Posted June 29, 2016 Author Share Posted June 29, 2016 What's their wingspan ? Lars I think about 4'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) Ok, here are some older hawk photos so you can actually see what it looks like. They really are pretty majestic birds: A not-so-majestic old bird: Edited June 29, 2016 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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