TubeHiFiNut Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 My opinion on the march? The right to peaceably assemble is a cornerstone of our Republic and is guaranteed by the 1st Amendment. The right of the citizens of these United States of America to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. I also assert that the Constitution and the rest of the Amendments are possible because of the 2nd Amendment. I urge those who are interested to read The Constitution in the context of The Federalist Papers to best understand why the Founders added the Amendments in the first place. Freedom of Speech is not the problem. Gun ownership is not the problem. The huge increase of babies born to single mothers certainly contributes. The lack of familial structure and support certainly contributes. Media outlets who peddle the garbage on TV and the Internet certainly contribute. The almost complete abdication of personal responsibility and accountability throughout our societal structures certainly contributes. The shootings are a symptom. Isn't it about time we started identifying and treating the underlying illnesses? Just my opinion....for what it's worth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 And good luck with that. 1 minute ago, TubeHiFiNut said: I urge those who are interested to read The Constitution in the context of The Federalist Papers to best understand why the Founders added the Amendments in the first place. Reading? Tons of luck with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 6 hours ago, JJkizak said: Good point there. Kids get their news from Facebook and Twitter and not the media. JJK Wait a minute. If you have been watching the news so have their parents. 7 hours ago, Max2 said: We have lots of laws on many things very similar to guns and they're worthless. You want Heroin, you get it. If you can physically ask for a gun on the street, you can get one, no matter age or mental fitness involved. Guns, Drugs and all the bad stuff will all be here no matter what laws you push for. 6 hours ago, CECAA850 said: We have rational gun laws. My opinion on both Max and CEC's comments are I think we need to take the glamor out of guns like we did cocaine, meth and cigarettes. Guns aren't "cool." they are used and developed to kill. For those that want to do more than hunt, join the military. They have become dangerous being accepted as an every day fact of life here in the USA and in the Twenty-first Century . Btw, I am not an extremist on this issue and still want shooting clubs and competitors to have sport weapons as well as all the folks that want to purchase weapons to keep at home. Quote We also have irrational people that really don't care about gun laws. If our gun deaths weren't making the news because of their prevalence to families and society most Americans wouldn't care about gun laws. Fwiw, there are irrational people on both sides of the issue but surely we can agree one with a gun is more so than one without. Quote We have laws on the books forbidding murder but that really doesn't stop the determined. No it won't but that is like saying "pass all the laws you want people are still going to get {Fill in the blank}". I contend getting back to your heroin analogy, make both guns and the former uncool/unimportant and that can change the dynamic. Quote Pass all the laws you want, it won't change anything. Prisons are full of people that have been convicted of breaking one law or another. I am not going to bet political but some folks feel that "law and order" can be accomplished and if you haven't been paying attention there are folks in office currently that are in jeopardy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, rebuy said: Now Look--We have to protect "The Children". So, I want to propose that no child should be able to watch any TV Show or Movie with a gun in it. Imo, if you think this is all about "The Children," then you are missing the bigger picture and that this discussion is about US...For the record, I don't want to be put in the position to put myself in between children and an AR-15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, oldtimer said: Why don't they include handguns? Because Glocks are used in more mass shootings than ony other one gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 6 hours ago, Tarheel said: Timothy McVeigh didn't have a problem killing 600+ with fertilizer. Rented Home Depot trucks are handy for running down pedestrians if that is your agenda. It's a people problem not a tool problem. 6 hours ago, mark1101 said: Yup. Agree 100%. Bombs, grenades, chemicals................the killing won't stop due to the weapons available or not. No doubt but in America wouldn't your weapon of choice be a gun? I mean it's simpler than going to the trouble of educating yourself on how to do the above including the danger of blowing yourself up like so many amateurs do, and let's face it, we are only talking about mass killings here and even this year it will be a small fraction of gun deaths in our country. Otoh, not to many bombing even considering what happened in Austin--That dude killed less people on several attempts than any of the top 20 shooters/killers so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Tony Whitlow said: Knives are not designed to kill. Guns are. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Excellent point! Btw, it would be idiotic to try and outlaw knives because they are extremely important in everyday life regardless if you own a gun and their PRIMARY use isn't to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, oldtimer said: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12037479/Mapped-Which-countries-have-the-highest-murder-rates.html That site might be missing several things as to why the rates are what they look to be. https://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, rebuy said: Fwiw, most gun deaths in this country are suicide and that is a reason to consider if your main concern is to protect your family. That said, if you live in a dangerous area the of course you need to weigh that as a consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 "That site might be missing several things as to why the rates are what they look to be." Saw that one too. They are all interesting, and show different ways of looking at things. The USA is not even in the top 25 for overall homicide per capita in the world, but others will point to comparisons that deal with strictly first world, top tier nations. Then there is homicide versus only gun deaths...the stats get massaged more than a sailor in Bangkok. Jamaica, for example, is in the tops for homicides per capita, regardless of their laws before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, EmilC said: Well that has to stop. Mandatory jail sentences for anyone in possession of an unlicensed gun Guns aren't licensed in my state. Permits are for carry... not concealed carry, just carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: Excellent point! Btw, it would be idiotic to try and outlaw knives because they are extremely important in everyday life regardless if you own a gun and their PRIMARY use isn't to kill. Some kind of are. Spec ops knives are combination survival/field/killing tools. But again, we digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeHiFiNut Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Saw that one too. They are all interesting, and show different ways of looking at things. The USA is not even in the top 25 for overall homicide per capita in the world, but others will point to comparisons that deal with strictly first world, top tier nations. Then there is homicide versus only gun deaths...the stats get massaged more than a sailor in Bangkok. Norway has the highest per capita death rate from mass shootings in the world. What's the saying? There's lies, damn lies and statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, oldtimer said: The answer to that is obvious. The answer to changing that society is not as obvious, nor so easy. This discussion is a lot more interesting than facebook but I think you have made the point above that I've tried to articulate several times. 3 hours ago, oldtimer said: or far right crazies out of hate or robbery to fund their little clubs. But if it makes you feel better to exonerate a group that really was and is not part of the discussion then good for you. Personally, I don't see the need. 3 hours ago, rebuy said: Usually if a person can go into a school or business and kill people--I'd call that being mental. If that is your only criteria then I suggest you consider "Pissed off," and "ideologically driven," to your list...I am ending my participation here for the evening but to bring what the Marches are about full circle--The answer to gun violence isn't putting more guns on the street (even to law abiding citizens) because they are more than likely to be used for suicide or in the heat of anger in most people's homes than defending their families, imo. Y'all have a good one an interesting discussion. Kudos to mods and participants for not shutting it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, oldtimer said: Some kind of are. Spec ops knives are combination survival/field/killing tools. But again, we digress. Sure. Those don't interest me and I have more chance of being shot. Hope things are going well and now I must relax with a Belhaven and listen to some INXS before settling down to dinner with my lovely wife. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Before liberals started taking God out of school and removing shame for bad moral behavior and blaming Christians for all evil kids around here in jr high and up used to bring guns to school and put them in their lockers. They would hunt on the way home and no one cared or worried. What has changed is the empowerment of evil people who have read Sun Tsu's Art Of War and use it against us. They use pedophile jihadi Muslims and socialist millenial dreamers and illegals who want the freebies to help destroy society and the usurpation of Biblical based society to create tyranny with themselves in charge. Sun Tzu says quite clearly that the best victory over your enemy is done by debasing their society. When enough trouble and chaos is created they will ask a strong man in to restore stability and then you end up like Russia or China or Venezuala. No guns first then no freedom of speech and then no freedom. Funny thing is that liberal idiots never read history to find out people like Stalin called them useful idiots and slaughtered them by the hundreds of thousand once their purpose was done. Atlas Shrugged and Orwells 1984 and Robert Conquests The Great Terror should be mandatory reading for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, TubeHiFiNut said: Norway has the highest per capita death rate from mass shootings in the world. Funny enough. (well not a funny subject). There is no time reference for the chart. And we should be proud of our number---133, which dwarfs even Germany's 6. Maybe per capita, we just aren't as good as we think we are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, oldtimer said: My point was it is not anyone in the mainstream calling for violence against those they disagree with. Nor is the NRA or law abiding gun owners, yet both are labled as wanting to kill babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Just now, Woofers and Tweeters said: Nor is the NRA or law abiding gun owners, yet both are labled as wanting to kill babies. That is what I am saying. Yet just because some idiots apply labels is irrelevant, unless one wishes to join the victim parade, and then sling labels back and perform a Pilate-like ritual to excuse or exonerate the clearly guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeHiFiNut Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Funny enough. (well not a funny subject). There is no time reference for the chart. And we should be proud of our number---133, which dwarfs even Germany's 6. Maybe per capita, we just aren't as good as we think we are. The USA as a country is a combination of population numbers, cultures, freedoms, traditions and a whole lot more. Comparisons to other countries that do not share these traits is truly like comparing stand mount British monitors to big horns (had to get at least one hi-fi reference into this discussion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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