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Allhartfidelity

Belle questions (new to me)

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New to me set of Belle. Sold my Lascala last year, and been sorry I did so. Saw a set of Belle on local Craig's and jumped. Matching veneer, type AA xover...question:  It looks strange... square caps, 2 sets of protection instead of the 1 I'm used to seeing. Anyone know if these are stock? Nothing like them online that I can see. Paperwork with these is dated 1971. Serial 306 and 307. 

   Also, when I had the lascala, I bought xovers from Alk, and mid lense fastrac lascala from Fastlane. Is it ok to run the xovers and lense in these Belle? Providing I can fit it in there..

 Any opinions appriciated.

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Those capacitors look like Russian Paper In Oil - But I could be wrong 

If they are PIO they display a laid back sound - So if you don’t like that sound signature, you should first experiment with replacement caps before swapping out the entire crossovers 

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

They sure are purdy............:)

 

Shakey

Yes they are.

 

Bill

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Exact same crossover that was in my 1972 K-Horns. I not sure what you mean by 2 protection circuits...the diodes are to protect the tweeter. They are all stock looks like to me. You can rebuild them to type AA or type A. I rebuilt mine to Bobs type A-4500 with GE oil caps not sure if he has the oil caps anymore though.  The type A-4500 requires a tweeter change though. But they do look really pretty.  I used the old transformer changed everything else though. 

IMAG0407.jpg

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That is the first year the Belle was introduced if I am not mistaken.  That is just an old pair of AA networks and yes the ALK Universals will work in the Belle.  I don't think Al is building the universal anymore but DeanG can make a really nice set of AA's or for you that will make those Belle's come alive.  Very nice finish condition for their age they were obviously well cared for.

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7 hours ago, Full Range said:

Those capacitors look like Russian Paper In Oil - But I could be wrong 

If they are PIO they display a laid back sound - So if you don’t like that sound signature, you should first experiment with replacement caps before swapping out the entire crossovers 

 

 

 

They are much more laid back than the lascalas were. I thought it due to the downsized mid horn lense. May just stick the other Alk xovers from my old lascala in there then? They are the ap12 500 and the es5800. Though this horn is xover st  400 I think.  Just wanting to confirm it wont hurt anything..k77 tweeter and k55v mid. Though I do have a JBL mid to stick in there.

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3 hours ago, Frzninvt said:

That is the first year the Belle was introduced if I am not mistaken.  That is just an old pair of AA networks and yes the ALK Universals will work in the Belle.  I don't think Al is building the universal anymore but DeanG can make a really nice set of AA's or for you that will make those Belle's come alive.  Very nice finish condition for their age they were obviously well cared for.

I have the ap12 500 and es5800. The 500 may be my only issue? No matter I suppose if i switch to the Fastrac Lascala horn lense (if it fits)

  Thank you for the info, it seems you are right. Further research does indicate first year of production as 1971. Seems I have low serial numbers then. Both cabinets are identical, as veneer used must have been sequential. Though I see no mention of bookmatched veneer in the literature, clearly it was standard?

 Hmm..

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5 hours ago, ricktate said:

klipsch_aa.jpgThis is what you have now....See the 2 diodes 1N3996.

Oh, I do see the diodes. Thank you . Guess the square caps on mine is an optical illusion. The stacks on the left look like 2 caps in each stack for a total of 5 caps. Maybe they are in parallel with one another or are actually single. I see 3 caps on the schematic so what looks to be 5 in my xover three me. Maybe its 3 after all. Thanks a bunch for the schematic

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6 hours ago, ricktate said:

Exact same crossover that was in my 1972 K-Horns. I not sure what you mean by 2 protection circuits...the diodes are to protect the tweeter. They are all stock looks like to me. You can rebuild them to type AA or type A. I rebuilt mine to Bobs type A-4500 with GE oil caps not sure if he has the oil caps anymore though.  The type A-4500 requires a tweeter change though. But they do look really pretty.  I used the old transformer changed everything else though. 

IMAG0407.jpg

Exact same as in, 5 square Cornell Dublier caps with 4 ran in series (or parallel)  like this?

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20180404_080734-2160x1215.jpg

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1 hour ago, Allhartfidelity said:

They are much more laid back than the lascalas were. I thought it due to the downsized mid horn lense. May just stick the other Alk xovers from my old lascala in there then? They are the ap12 500 and the es5800. Though this horn is xover st  400 I think.  Just wanting to confirm it wont hurt anything..k77 tweeter and k55v mid. Though I do have a JBL mid to stick in there.

 

"Laid Back" is the normal symptom of old capacitors no longer performing properly.  Belles should not sound much different from La Scalas.  The Belle Klipsch has a K-500 horn designed for a 500 Hz crossover.  Your AP12 500 crosses at 500 Hz.  They should be a good match.  Al has Belles and most of his crossover development has been done on them.  You're good to go. 

 

The K-55-V (Atlas PD5-VH) driver is designed to be used down to 110 Hz.  The K-77 (E-V T-35) driver is designed to be used down to 3500 Hz with a steep crossover slope. 

 

There are mods for the Belle Klipsch upper section to incorporate Fastrac horns, but I'm not sure whether yours is one that readily works in a Belle Klipsch. 

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For the first year of production, those speakers look great and definitely not their age; at least in pictures.  Congrats on a great find!

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18 minutes ago, JohnA said:

 

"Laid Back" is the normal symptom of old capacitors no longer performing properly.  Belles should not sound much different from La Scalas.  The Belle Klipsch has a K-500 horn designed for a 500 Hz crossover.  Your AP12 500 crosses at 500 Hz.  They should be a good match.  Al has Belles and most of his crossover development has been done on them.  You're good to go. 

 

The K-55-V (Atlas PD5-VH) driver is designed to be used down to 110 Hz.  The K-77 (E-V T-35) driver is designed to be used down to 3500 Hz with a steep crossover slope. 

 

There are mods for the Belle Klipsch upper section to incorporate Fastrac horns, but I'm not sure whether yours is one that readily works in a Belle Klipsch. 

Right it seems on all counts. The fastrac lascala lense I have fits, but does not allow for the tweeter. On my lascala, I set a ev t350 on top, but likely just stick with the k500 lense, and my jbl 2426 driver. They seem ok, and preserve the k55v. 

  I put one xover set (seen in pic) in one side. Sounds nice, like I recall, and does bring to mind actually how well the orig xover does still perform. The es5800 is a fairly steep xover I think. I like the ability to attenuate both mid and tweet with this setup, or even go to a 2 way set if I choose. I appriciate your input, thank you. The Belle seems to be everything I missed about my Lascala, as well as have the attributes i wished the lascala had. More narrow to fit against my wall, and beautified . I have missed this sound terribly!

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I have the Volti wood horn replacement in my Belles as well as the crites ct125 tweeter, xo over, and new mid horn.  I love them. Sound phenom.  Good find. 

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