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Dave A

Super MWM

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That image is with the peaks already taken out with EQ.  Granted.....that system to me sounded better than the jubes.

Everything has a compromise.  I would wager Dave may have deeper dips.  That doesnt mean it will sound bad.  It is what it is.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, jwc said:

That image is with the peaks already taken out with EQ.  Granted.....that system to me sounded better than the jubes.

Everything has a compromise.  I would wager Dave may have deeper dips.  That doesnt mean it will sound bad.  It is what it is.

 

 

I have no argument with that. You are right, the curves will be what they will be, but in a real big room, and not in an anechoic chamber, like the curves Roy did. We were all impressed with the double MWMs in THAT ROOM, and many of us ended up with those in our homes shortly thereafter for a reason!

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

K 43's are 4 ohm

 

1 hour ago, jwc said:

Those K43's should be cast frame.....  but Since you have a more recent model MWM in your possession,   The impedance of those drivers might be different.

 

May not be worth the cost to swap out.

 

I will certainly check them when I have them in my possession, but the literature from Klipsch indicates the K-43 woofers are 8 ohm. which is why they are wired in parallel on the dual bins to give a 4 ohm load.

 

Thanks guys.

 

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4 hours ago, jwc said:

Dave, you gonna be able to run a curve on these?  I'm sure they will go low.  However, I'd like to see if any big dips after 100Hz..... as that long horn has no vertical expansion.

I am just now entering the world of measurements and DSP and active crossovers so if someone wants to instruct me over the phone on what to do I will give it a shot. Things are kind of on hold right now since I need to get internet to the shop to be able to email screen captures to tutors. Going past simple crossovers with no one here to walk me through this one has been frustrating.

 Hmmm, are you saying I need to make one that does?

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You have a pm

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48 minutes ago, jwc said:

You have a pm

No I don't.

 

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@DaveA - do you plan to build two of the SMWMs for each side for a stack, like I see many of the folk here have with the standard MWMs? Or does this design mean that is not necessary? I talked to Bob Crites some time ago and he suggested a K402 really needed a pair of MWMs sitting under it, hence why ask. Thanks.

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4 hours ago, Ziggurat said:

@DaveA - do you plan to build two of the SMWMs for each side for a stack, like I see many of the folk here have with the standard MWMs? Or does this design mean that is not necessary? I talked to Bob Crites some time ago and he suggested a K402 really needed a pair of MWMs sitting under it, hence why ask. Thanks.

Building 2 more of these monsters just to raise up a horn would be ridiculous in this case. Nice comment from the "back seat."

 

I don't necessarily agree with Bob's comment. It entirely depends on whether you will be sitting or standing while listening, or whether or not you have a tweeter above the K-402 (3 way vs. 2-way). So the answer is "it depends." When I designed and built my MWM-derived Quarter Pie Horn (built worldwide), it was the same height as a single MWMs bin (of which I had double stacked, but went to a single pair because 4 were not needed in a home). So in a 3-way system, having a double stack might put the tweeter way too high.

 

In the case of the Super MWM, which I co-designed with DaveA, it's about 5 inches taller than a regular single factory MWMs (for optimum material usage). So it's a pretty good compromise in his case because the tweeter IS the midrange too and still has pretty darn good dispersion at 8 Khz. in the K-402. As long as the stereo image on cymbals sounds "normal" height, whether sitting or standing, there would be no need to have 2 of these MONSTERS per side. It would be a waste of money just to have a K-402 SPACER, which can be done with spare lumber without having to built another pair just for the height, if deemed necessary.

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I wondered whether the stated need for two had to do with height or balancing output.  Output made no sense to me even if going passive (with shaping elements) unless one want to avoid resistors.  Thanks for clearing that up for me a bit.

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5 hours ago, Ziggurat said:

@DaveA - do you plan to build two of the SMWMs for each side for a stack, like I see many of the folk here have with the standard MWMs? Or does this design mean that is not necessary? I talked to Bob Crites some time ago and he suggested a K402 really needed a pair of MWMs sitting under it, hence why ask. Thanks.

In addition it is sitting on a pallet so I can move it around it I have to so add 4 more inches. When you sit in a standard roll around office chair the center of the 402 is almost the same height as my ears are sitting in that chair so nothing further needed. I found with the double MWM bin I had to tilt the 402 forward a bit because it was too tall.

 

  Hey with FOUR bins I could do earthquake simulations though so there is that.

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26 minutes ago, glens said:

I wondered whether the stated need for two had to do with height or balancing output.  Output made no sense to me even if going passive (with shaping elements) unless one want to avoid resistors.  Thanks for clearing that up for me a bit.

Well balancing output will be done with soon with a xilica so that does not enter into the picture at all. Running off a set of AA crossovers and then doing room EQ through a DBX driverack also seems to work pretty good at taming any imbalance.

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Yeah.  There's more than one way to scale that fish mountain.

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4 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Building 2 more of these monsters just to raise up a horn would be ridiculous in this case. Nice comment from the "back seat."

 

 

Obviously, Claude.

 

Bob and I were discussing crossovers at the time. His comments, as I recall, were more around matching the (high) output of Faital HF200 / K402 combo with the bass bin section. He seemed to imply it would be be difficult to build a passive xo that would take care of this with a single MWM per side, but I may have misunderstood.

 

I certainly am in the 'back seat' as you say.  My interest in these projects (that I would love to duplicate) is hampered by massive gaps in my understanding, and trying to work out which is the best way forward when importing costly gear.

 

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5 hours ago, Dave A said:

Well balancing output will be done with soon with a xilica so that does not enter into the picture at all. Running off a set of AA crossovers and then doing room EQ through a DBX driverack also seems to work pretty good at taming any imbalance.

With Bi Amping, you can just change the relative gains.

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1 hour ago, Ziggurat said:

 

Obviously, Claude.

 

Bob and I were discussing crossovers at the time. His comments, as I recall, were more around matching the (high) output of Faital HF200 / K402 combo with the bass bin section. He seemed to imply it would be be difficult to build a passive xo that would take care of this with a single MWM per side, but I may have misunderstood.

 

I certainly am in the 'back seat' as you say.  My interest in these projects (that I would love to duplicate) is hampered by massive gaps in my understanding, and trying to work out which is the best way forward when importing costly gear.

 

If you just wait for the "End of the Story," which is still unfolding, you will have an easy recipe to follow, just like my Quarter Pie horn of Super Heresy 1 and 2.0

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Dave is dangerous now............he is fast becoming a Xilica guru.  The man is a natural at programming.  He's got 'em playing.

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I imagine that one who works with CAD programs and able to program the machining of those aluminum tweeter horns might find the xilica a breeze.

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5 hours ago, mark1101 said:

Dave is dangerous now............he is fast becoming a Xilica guru.  The man is a natural at programming.  He's got 'em playing.

How do you know?

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1 hour ago, Marvel said:

I imagine that one who works with CAD programs and able to program the machining of those aluminum tweeter horns might find the xilica a breeze.

The problem with Xilica is the terrible documentation. Once you have someone walk you through it then you can figure it out from there since there is logic to where you will find what you need.

 

1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

How do you know?

He helped me set up the Xilica today with inputs and outputs with the entries needed to at least get going. I still have to get internet out there so we can look at doing REW but for now I can finally get to that point.

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4 hours ago, Dave A said:

I still have to get internet out there

 

How far from your router to "out there" and what's in between?

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