joessportster Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Maybe I am obsessive / compulsive or something and need to just be more affable. I Expect that A very good description of the product, any defects be mentioned, A price be agreed upon, Payment be made reasonably quickly, Seller packs the product and ships according to agreement. Buyer receives product and quickly (within reason of course) inspects and tests product, buyer then communicate with seller I have always thought those Expectations were reasonable and have tried my best to adhere to the standard in every transaction I enter into. I am a cards on the table guy, I will not bull$%^t you and I dont want to be fed bull$^&t either. Just lay em out and act like an adult deal with anything that comes up Situation: Contacted a seller with Excellent feedback on A-Gon, Made an offer, he counters we reach an agreement he is paid immediately, its Saturday noonish, Agreement is also for priority mail shipping. Sunday I get an email from UPS My package has shipped, (what they really mean is a label was purchased) Im scratching my head a bit but I consider myself a reasonable human and I let the amended shipping go, Monday comes no movement ups still has no parcel, A gentle reminder sent to the seller that we had an agreement for priority shipping and that I understand saving a few $$$ or using an existing account to make things easier, but that I expected my package be delivered this week & I would be disappointed if it was not. Seller responds he dropped it off LATE Monday Tracking shows UPS received it Tuesday morning, No big deal................Package gets delivered. Open it up, ZERO padding under the product tape stuck to transformer, really what I would consider a rushed poor packing job, Various bits of used packing even folded printer paper. Set it up and find rust on the transformer, and the chassis is tweaked the front right is 3/16" off the platform. The product does work and I will likely keep it. I take Feedback more seriously than many, I feel like it is my Duty to fairly / truthfully relate the transaction facts so future buyers can make a better informed decision. What say the crowd ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I'm maybe not quite as anal as you, but quite close. I believe in true disclosure, good communication and following through with doing what you say you will (I have had a couple exceptions for specific reasons in almost 20 years). If you aren't happy with the item and the description doesn't match what the seller listed it as, contact the seller and inform him or her of your concerns. I have done exactly that a couple times and gotten a credit back from the seller. This is especially true if you paid top dollar or close to it for what the item should sell for. Most people in the audio community I have found throughout the years to be an excellent bunch of folks. Worst case scenario, you can always get Audiogon staff involved. A seller tried to screw me and steal money from me. I got Audiogon involved and posted multiple rants all over the internet about it. I was furious! I finally got every dollar back 6 months later. My advice? Always pay with PayPal using a credit card through PayPal. You get 2 to 3 layers of protection in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said: I'm maybe not quite as anal as you, but quite close. I believe in true disclosure, good communication and following through with doing what you say you will (I have had a couple exceptions for specific reasons in almost 20 years). If you aren't happy with the item and the description doesn't match what the seller listed it as, contact the seller and inform him or her of your concerns. I have done exactly that a couple times and gotten a credit back from the seller. This is especially true if you paid top dollar or close to it for what the item should sell for. Most people in the audio community I have found throughout the years to be an excellent bunch of folks. Worst case scenario, you can always get Audiogon staff involved. A seller tried to screw me and steal money from me. I got Audiogon involved and posted multiple rants all over the internet about it. I was furious! I finally got every dollar back 6 months later. My advice? Always pay with PayPal using a credit card through PayPal. You get 2 to 3 layers of protection in doing so. I contacted seller prior to posting here, Everyone has the right to explain there side. I place a value on everything I buy and most used gear is 50 to 75 percent of the new price, condition always dictates where I land in that zone. with this purchase I was on the high end at 70 percent of new because of great feedback and description. Sellers initial response was, he was stressed, missed his flight, and he did not notice the rust nor the chassis being tweaked. Sorry I let him know I understand stress and understand everyone makes mistakes but that does not excuse the obligation for a full description and that I now have a piece worth at least 20 percent less than I paid, Had the imperfections been posted I would have passed on the product as I know through years of experience most in audio obsess over condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 It sounds pretty clear to me that the solution to this would be that the seller credit you 10 to 20% back or the item is returned at his cost and your shipping is reimbursed. Don't keep something you were not happy with especially if you paid 70%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Leave honest accurate feedback. Keith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, T2K said: Leave honest accurate feedback. Keith That doesn't even work with some members here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share Posted August 9, 2018 He appreciates my understanding and offers a 50.00 refund Paid 700 for an amp and shipping, the amp sold for less than 1000 new. Shipping was 25.00 I ask myself If I looked at a product for sale and the description was : "For sale 1 amp, Chassis Tweaked will not set level, Surface rust on transformers Otherwise great sounds wonderful etc...etc...etc..." Would I buy it, My answer is "NO" I would not buy it, It is obvious someone did not take care of it and I dont want to deal with there issues. I countered with that information the only saving grace is the amp sounds fine and I can make it work in my headphone / bedroom setup. However I am eternally stuck with it because I dont see anyone wanting it knowing the defects 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 I would be pissed and would return it because it will "bug" you forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Don't keep it. You like I seem to like to rotate through gear in your own space with your own ears to find what is right for you. When, not if, you get rid of it, you will be sincerely disappointed with your losses. I don't know what you bought, but if it isn't vintage, call authorized dealers and ask them for their best price on item XYZ and you would be surprised..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Were there photos of the unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 1 hour ago, oldtimer said: That doesn't even work with some members here... Honest feedback is an obligation, a debt if you will. And debt is my number one concern, you know? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Roger that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 I'm with those who say you should give a fair review. Consider the possibility of giving the guy a head's up about the review you intend to give. Maybe share a draft with him. Let him know that if he would agree to a full recission, you will put in the review, "In the end, despite the misunderstandings, seller was gracious enough to give me a full recission. I am satisfied with that." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 Thanks Guys, The seller tried to bully me into his idea of fair, In the end I told him simply your opinions are that your opinions. If I choose to place a value on appearance, that is my right. He has no right to tell me otherwise (he was berating me for caring about condition, in his world sonics trump all). I told him I dont have to debate the subject with him, I was trying to resolve the issue as gentlemen might, That appeared to be an effort in vain, I would happily let paypal decide the fate and they would have no problem taking the full 700 back out of his account Debate stopped and he agreed to a fair partial refund. I now have 55 percent of new value in the amp While I still own a less than perfect amp in appearance it played for a couple hours and seems fine electrically. It can replace my Valhalla amp in the bedroom, giving me both headphone and speaker taps (with a switch so I can keep both wired ) it will be out of sight most of the time . As I mentioned it is now my permanent headphone Bedroom amp I wont try to sell it and I am ok with that because of the added convenience I typically fly off the handle, posting here forces me to calm down and think, You guys are like therapy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 We're all deaf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Glad you got things worked out. Been there, done that. Pain in the ***. Sometimes it better to agree to disagree but a negative feedback, eating the cost of shipping both ways in a $700 unit that was perhaps misrepresented doesn't make sense to me from a sellers standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 I have no expectation when it comes to the secondary market... none. I do have HOPE that responsibility will be taken as it was given, but that's not always the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Glad you got it worked out! I purchased a Sunfire Receiver for a really good price a few years back on A-gon, no pictures but a reputable seller and he listed condition as a "9," which on the A-gon scale is close to new. When I unpacked the Receiver I was shocked to see several deep gouges on the top like it was hastily pulled from a rack, not just a few small scratches several long deep gouges on the top I was pissed! Contacted the seller and he told me I should be happy with the great deal he gave me? I felt compelled to leave honest feedback which I was very easy on him really (neutral) and returned the favor by doing the same to me saying how ungrateful I was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 That's crazy. I guess I'm lucky I had the one isolated incident. It someone represents at item as a 9, but it ends up being a satisfactory 8 I don't make a big deal about it especially if the price was right. Deep gouges scratches? That's a 5 or a 6. That would be a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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