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tigerwoodKhorns

Cornscalas for $7500

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Why are speakers "non-audiophile" quality when a big company with sophisticated equipment and highly experienced engineers makes it (the Palladiums) but when some underfunded guy makes speakers out of his garage that he copies from this forum they are "audiophile"? 

 

Case and point. 

 

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/d/long-beach-ampsandsound-hudson-demo/6861351154.html

 

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Because those who buy $4,000 36" long hook up wires like to be told things before they buy. Special people have special needs.

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50 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

Why are speakers "non-audiophile" quality when a big company with sophisticated equipment and highly experienced engineers makes it (the Palladiums) but when some underfunded guy makes speakers out of his garage that he copies from this forum they are "audiophile"? 

 

Case and point. 

 

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/d/long-beach-ampsandsound-hudson-demo/6861351154.html

 

Not sure what you are getting at.  These are apparently manufactured by Justin Weber of ampsandsound.  And I don't think in his garage.  What am I missing?

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In the audiophile community, Klipsch are not worthy of any respect because of the broad product line, but when a small company makes essentially the same speaker, it is welcome with open arms. 

 

I don't know how big of a company amps and sound is, but these are Cornscalas.  I don't doubt that they are great speakers, but they have had informal hobbyist R&D. 

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2 hours ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

In the audiophile community, Klipsch are not worthy of any respect because of the broad product line, but when a small company makes essentially the same speaker, it is welcome with open arms. 

 

I don't know how big of a company amps and sound is, but these are Cornscalas.  I don't doubt that they are great speakers, but they have had informal hobbyist R&D. 

First off, if Justin is involved, then I fully trust the product will be outstanding!  I've known him for almost a couple of decades now!

 

About the time I first started knowing him, I had decided build-up a few LaScala speakers which had been "slightly" re-designed by myself...mostly to stiffen-up the overall cabinet construction by providing more stiffness in the joinery methods used in construction, my desire was to also make them as pretty as possible....and improve upon the "smoothing-up" of the bass bin horn lens sound-path-way throughout its transition from the woofer motor-board, through its split-point into bifurcation, and continuing through the complete transition of the sound thru its initial fold(s) prior to hitting its second fold(s).  The construction joinery re-design was successful, but required WAY MORE intense labor in accomplishing my goal(s)...which was fine for me, but would NOT have been fine for regular profitable factory production due to its increased labor-time involved, primarily!

 

The prototype pair I built were very nice, indeed...but could have been even nicer!  So the next prototype pair I will produce will incorporate some of what I did previously combined with some of what the LaScala II model has going for it, but without any use of MDF in the cabinets.  And this time around I will take pics of the entire building process with the intent on some videos added in...and share the process!  I also intend to have the doghouse section more prominently-displayed within the bass bins, by centering them within a "shadow-box" effect...by using black laminates on all of the bass bin inside panels surrounding the visible book-matched panels of the dog-house units!

 

The upper hi-mid section cabinet will in most ways parody the LaScala II section, BUT will have the motor-boards differently displayed!  Although it will still be set back into its surrounding outer cabinet, its outside face will be wood veneer vertically center-line book-matched, with magnets positioned just below the veneer surface in order to have removable grille-cloth panels which will normally remain over these veneered panels for everyday listening and to keep the dust out of the horn lens mouths, but which can easily be removed to visibly "show-off" the speakers' HF sections whenever desired!

 

If I ever decide to build any for marketing, they will be singles ready for installation of all the innards, BASED UPON WHICH INNARDS ARE BEING INTENDED for them.  This is so that people with older K-horns who want a center LaScala to match their K-horns can aquire one....provided that I CAN AQUIRE the matching veneers to their K-horns already acquired!  Otherwise, what I build will be for me, ONLY!

 

Here is one of the pair of LaScala prototypes I previously built....along with a pic of the pair (with grille-cloth panels attached)...think about what I wrote above as you look at them, and you may get a better picture in your mind of what I plan to do this next time around!.....while remembering that this time they will more resemble the current LaScala II in production, except for the differences I wrote about above! 

pair of oak LaScalas.jpg

solo oak LaScala no grill  note book match detail.jpg

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2 hours ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

In the audiophile community, Klipsch are not worthy of any respect because of the broad product line, but when a small company makes essentially the same speaker, it is welcome with open arms. 

 

I don't know how big of a company amps and sound is, but these are Cornscalas.  I don't doubt that they are great speakers, but they have had informal hobbyist R&D. 

And you're basing this opinion on a CL ad?  Apparently you don't know Justin or his company.

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4 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

And you're basing this opinion on a CL ad?  Apparently you don't know Justin or his company.

SURE would be nice to finally MEET Justin, since I have only known him thru the forum and in phone calls for two decades.....hoping I would see him on the list for the 2019 Pilgrimage, finally...but no  such luck so far!

 

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On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 11:39 AM, jimjimbo said:

Not sure what you are getting at.  What am I missing?

 

I think it's pretty obvious what he's getting at, there is no denying that these are a twist on the CornScala design at what appears to be 3 to 4 times the price.

 

"The Hudson began life as a design project which attempted to marry the virtues of direct radiating bass with the largest horns possible." 

 

I'm sure its not a coincidence that the "Hudson" is the same exact dimensions as a Cornwall with almost identical spec's, nowhere in the listing are the words Klipsch, Cornwall or CornScala though.

 

From what I can gather from the listing is that the cabinet is over-built (145lbs) w/ a beautiful veneer job along with the custom 22lb crossover more than likely put this speaker head and shoulders above the typical CornScala, whether or not they are worth the asking price would be up to each individual potential buyer. I have no doubt these are fantastic sounding speakers with first class build quality but lets face it, they are fancy CornScala's. 

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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

I think it's pretty obvious what he's getting at, there is no denying that these are a twist on the CornScala design at what appears to be 3 to 4 times the price.

 

"The Hudson began life as a design project which attempted to marry the virtues of direct radiating bass with the largest horns possible." 

 

I'm sure its not a coincidence that the "Hudson" is the same exact dimensions as a Cornwall with almost identical spec's, nowhere in the listing are the words Klipsch, Cornwall or CornScala though.

 

From what I can gather from the listing is that the cabinet is over-built (145lbs) w/ a beautiful veneer job along with the custom 22lb crossover more than likely put this speaker head and shoulders above the typical CornScala, whether or not they are worth the asking price would be up to each individual potential buyer. I have no doubt these are fantastic sounding speakers with first class build quality but lets face it, they are fancy CornScala's. 

And you don't think that other manufacturers borrow or modify designs in any industry?   Tell me that you don't have an amplifier, turntable, DAC or speaker that didn't take some of it's design elements from another company's lineup....I mean really, so what?  Justin is under no obligation to mention Klipsch, Cornwall or Cornscala, but you make it sound as though he should pay homage because his product looks similar.  

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4 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

And you don't think that other manufacturers borrow or modify designs in any industry?   Tell me that you don't have an amplifier, turntable, DAC or speaker that didn't take some of it's design elements from another company's lineup....I mean really, so what?  Justin is under no obligation to mention Klipsch, Cornwall or Cornscala, but you make it sound as though he should pay homage because his product looks similar.  

Jensen invented "bass reflex" designs, otherwise known as "ported boxes." Paul Klipsch was the first Engineer, that I know of, to use a 4th order filter analogy to describe his first Cornwall, in 1957. When I said this to him, he got a big grin on his face (Jim Hunter was there) since I was one of the few people who recognized this fact. PWK did this a full 4 years ahead of Neville Thiele's work in Australia (1961), NOT known to the rest of the world until 1971, when the Audio Engineering Society (USA) published it, and later, the work of Richard Small. Ever since then, there have bee thousands of "vented box" designs, including the $600,00 Wilsons that use Thiele/Small parameters as the SCIENCE behind them..................so what?

 

The SOUND principles behind a 3-way speaker with a compromised bass section (not a horn bass), but less compromised mid and tweeter section, with an expensive network and stiffer cabinet are certainly a good way to get dynamic music reproducers. Compared to most of the overpriced junk at Axpona, (based on my experiences), I suspect that Jason's speakers represent a bargain that are more premium than Cornwall III's and are priced accordingly. BTW, I hand built what you would call a "CornScala" in 1975 when I was 21, big deal and so what? Forgive my handheld, taped together film/print, taped together, snapshots, which were done before I got a wide angle lens for my Minolta SLR.

 

For those who don't recognize them, the big midhorns are Altec Voice of the Theater horns, the bigger of the 2 available. the "Cornscala" has a Speakerlab copy of the Klipsch K400 and an Altec Voice of the Theater woofer.

 

 

WallOsound1976web.jpg

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Try this quote from 2 days ago by John Atkinson of Stereophile about Wilson Bass Reflex speakers with ONLY direct radiators. I have been to Paragon Audio to hear their stuff, since it's less than an hour away from me. Those prices sure make the Klipsch Palladiums seem like a real bargain in comparison at 1/5th the price.

 

Given that I had recently gushed over the pairing, at one of Definitive Audio of Seattle's Music Matters events, of Wilson Audio's Alexx speakers ($109,000/pair), Sub Sonic Subwoofers (two, at $37,500/each), and Watch Controllers (two, at $4000/each); D'Agostino Relentless monoblocks ($250,000/pair) and Progression monoblocks ($38,000/pair), plus Momentum phono stage ($28,000); a dCS and Clearaudio front end; and lots and lots of Transparent Reference XL cabling plus an HRS VXR-19213V-80 rack with two M3x base audio stands ($57,960 total), I didn't know if I would hear much of a difference from the AXPONA system put together by Michigan retailer Paragon Sight and Sound.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-alexx-loudspeakers-dagostino-momentum-hd-preamp-dcs-vivaldi-one-digital-front-end-and...................................

 

041319-Paragon-600_0.jpg

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When I was there a few years ago, the best sounding speakers at the show were the $40,000 Sadurni Horns (literally brought tears to my eyes, emotionally) and the $2,000 Open Baffle Spatials, with honorable mention going to Andrew Jones' Elac Bookshelf speakers (at way less than $600 a pair). The big JTR's were also one of the best. The rest were all "me too" sounding, from so so to crap.

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17 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

And you're basing this opinion on a CL ad?  Apparently you don't know Justin or his company.

My beef is with "audiophiles" not the speaker maker here.  I did not comment on the actual speakers, they look really nice (awesome actually), but they are corn-scalas.  My point is that the audiophile community will accept these as true "audiophile" (whatever that means) but if Klipsch made the exact same speakers, they are sub par.

 

Same thing with Volti's speakers..  They are absolutely beautiful and I'm sure they sound awesome, but they are basically modified heritage and the heritage do not seem to get any respect.

 

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Try this quote from 2 days ago by John Atkinson of Stereophile about Wilson Bass Reflex speakers with ONLY direct radiators. I have been to Paragon Audio to hear their stuff, since it's less than an hour away from me. Those prices sure make the Klipsch Palladiums seem like a real bargain in comparison at 1/5th the price.

 

Given that I had recently gushed over the pairing, at one of Definitive Audio of Seattle's Music Matters events, of Wilson Audio's Alexx speakers ($109,000/pair), Sub Sonic Subwoofers (two, at $37,500/each), and Watch Controllers (two, at $4000/each); D'Agostino Relentless monoblocks ($250,000/pair) and Progression monoblocks ($38,000/pair), plus Momentum phono stage ($28,000); a dCS and Clearaudio front end; and lots and lots of Transparent Reference XL cabling plus an HRS VXR-19213V-80 rack with two M3x base audio stands ($57,960 total), I didn't know if I would hear much of a difference from the AXPONA system put together by Michigan retailer Paragon Sight and Sound.
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-alexx-loudspeakers-dagostino-momentum-hd-preamp-dcs-vivaldi-one-digital-front-end-and...................................

 

 

I use to go to the Audio shows here in town.  At one of the last real shows that I went to (about 10 years ago) out of all of the systems, the Wilson room, a pair of Revel Salon 2's with levinson amps thrown together in a room (I forget what they were showing), and a pair of hand made speakers using Pioneer car audio components (may have been TAD drivers labeled Pioneer) were the three best systems that I heard. I am not saying that the other stuff was not good, but Audio shows usually do not have equipment set up well.

 

After one audio show, I gave up after that because I realized that I did not care to chase this BS any more.  I had a way too expensive system and "downgraded it" to a complete system (using Palladium 38 mains) where the entire system cost about what the speakers and preamp from the previous system cost and it still sounded just as good (same room).  

 

So my thoughts on the audiophile thing:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

After one audio show, I gave up after that because I realized that I did not care to chase this BS any more.  I had a way too expensive system and "downgraded it" to a complete system (using Palladium 38 mains) where the entire system cost about what the speakers and preamp from the previous system cost and it still sounded just as good (same room).  

I agree with you. The best thing about Axpona is when you can get good music recordings on sale and the satisfaction that what you have in your listening room is better than 99% of the overpriced stuff there. As to Klipsch not getting any respect, they were and may still be the biggest loudspeaker company in the world with $175 Million in sales the year Fred Klipsch sold the company. That is what I call real RESPECT, and certainly not lacking on this forum, eh? So screw all those other turkeys and chickens who like to pretend at those shows. Blechhh!

 

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Forgive my handheld, taped together film/print, taped together, snapshots, which were done before I got a wide angle lens for my Minolta SLR.

BTW, Back in 1975, the Altec drivers and EV tweeters in my ugly white monsters on the ends, cost me about $1,000 and change, which would be over $5,000 today plus the lumber. So it make the Klipsch Cornwall and Jason's speakers quite a bargain at $4,200 and $7,500 respectively, don't you think?

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43 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

My beef is with "audiophiles" not the speaker maker here. 

OK then, I misunderstood.  My apologies.

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Since this had already de-railed.

Check this out! 

 

This fella got to the pair I was interested in for an excellent price, before I could make it happen. I saw this thread days ago and thought what Jim did until just now. Spoke with the craftsman that makes these a few weeks back. He's a gentleman with a passion greater than what some of ours is for good sound.

Note the buyer talking about the packaging.. gotta love it!

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