glens Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 40 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: Does anyone know what the LF crossover point is on the speakers the OP currently has? Said to be running the 402 temporarily in place of an Altec 811B in an Altec 19 system, so I'd say nominally 800 Hz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 1 hour ago, dwilawyer said: A similar issue also came up about ten years ago when someone had mismatched1132 drivers. @Coytee must have forgotten that as keeper of the official Jubilee list that someone got 1132s with their Jubes, were sent K-69s (unknown which version), did a comparison, and for him he prefered the 1132 over the "K69". However, as previously pointed out, the K691 is generally regarded as a "better" driver than the K-69-A. Must have been more than one person. The only one I'm intimately familiar with is Ralph Bagge (London England). I was over there & visited with him. He confided in me he was a bit let down that his Jubilee's didn't have the 'tinkle' he was looking for. I noticed they looked a bit odd.... there was a "tunnel" for lack of better word, where the bug-screen was on mine (at mouth of K402) I took a picture of it, came back, sent to Roy. He asked that Ralph turn speaker around and did he have an 11?? (32/33??) and turns out he did. Roy sent him the K69's and Ralph's tinkle was restore and he lived happily ever after. I know there was more than one person who got the wrong driver early on. I don't recall much details about the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggurat Posted July 5, 2019 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Ok, so I have heard from Roy. In a nutshell, I will be keeping my 1132's right where they are, and applying a fraction more PEQ than I would have to if I had K691's up top when the Xilica arrives. Much obliged, posters 🙂 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlthess40 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 No matter what you will love these horns for the rest of your days. If and when you make any changes, make notes of anything you do and your thoughts about each adjustment that was done That way you can always go back for a different sound. As we all know that a turntable will have a different sound then a CD player or any other input sources you tryAnd each one will need a different adjustment. Wish you well and many happy hours of enjoyment with them Dollar for dollar Klipsch has no equals Name one other speaker company that can build a speaker and keep working like new after 45 plus years of service. Answer NO ONE !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Coytee, the K-691 is a definite improvement over the K-69-A. I bought a pair of 691s this Spring and was very happy with the improved sound. The higher frequencies in particular sounded more clear. My 16-year-old nephew assisted me in lifting down the big and awkward 402/driver/stand/base set, and I was also glad to have him give me an opinion on what he was hearing, since at his age he would have full-range ears. I played some music with the 69-A drivers, and then the same music with the 691s, and the improvements were immediately obvious to both of us. The next day, when I was listening alone, I noticed that they were starting to sound smoother, and within a few days, they seemed to reach their full performance. Perhaps titanium diaphragms break in more quickly than cone drivers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted July 6, 2019 Moderators Share Posted July 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Coytee said: Must have been more than one person. The only one I'm intimately familiar with is Ralph Bagge (London England). I was over there & visited with him. He confided in me he was a bit let down that his Jubilee's didn't have the 'tinkle' he was looking for. I noticed they looked a bit odd.... there was a "tunnel" for lack of better word, where the bug-screen was on mine (at mouth of K402) I took a picture of it, came back, sent to Roy. He asked that Ralph turn speaker around and did he have an 11?? (32/33??) and turns out he did. Roy sent him the K69's and Ralph's tinkle was restore and he lived happily ever after. I know there was more than one person who got the wrong driver early on. I don't recall much details about the others. Check out the thread I linked, I paraphrased a post from you about the 1132s. I distinctly remember the guy in the UK, that was a mistake is what the dealer ordered, wrong SKU. So you must have talked to the other guy in Washington because you mentioned several details about the guy getting K69s to do a side by side with the 1132s. I'm assuming that occurred when you were updating the Master Jubilee list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Ziggurat said: Ok, so I have heard from Roy. In a nutshell, I will be keeping my 1132's right where they are, and applying a fraction more PEQ than I would have to if I had K691's up top when the Xilica arrives. Much obliged, posters 🙂 Here is a tip for you I have found works for me. On those 402's if you angle them so they focus on an imaginary point behind you in stead of pointing right at you things open right up. Would you mind PMing me those PEQ's when you get them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dave A said: Here is a tip for you I have found works for me. On those 402's if you angle them so they focus on an imaginary point behind you in stead of pointing right at you things open right up. Would you mind PMing me those PEQ's when you get them? === good information. And works for me too. I sit about 12 feet from front center and have the entire Jube cabinet angled to a point some 18 feet behind me. Soundstage is perfectly spaced across the entire front wall leaving little doubt as to a “ghost” center being present. I position the same with LaScalas with the same positive results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 At present, I’m experimenting with less toe-in on my 402s. With the 510s and the stock La Scalas before them, a roughly 30 degree toe-in (per side) gave a usefully wide sweet spot, but with the 402s, it was the width of my head. Two months ago, I tried a somewhat wider angle, and it widened the sweet spot to give me about 1.5-2 feet/45-60 cm of lateral head movement while maintaining the phantom centre speaker. A couple of weeks ago, I went a bit wider yet, and it’s a bit better. Having the 402/base set just sitting on top of the LS2 cabinets makes them like LS Industrial splits, which is really convenient. Once I settle on an angle, I’ll see about turning the cabinets to match the tweeters, since it looks a bit goofy right now, because the homemade bases are the same size as the tops of the cabinets. The LS2 cabinets are a snug fit between the adjacent furniture, so I want to reposition them only once, if possible. I use a laser level positioned on the inner sidewall of each cabinet to aim the tweeters or cabinets toward the sofa where I sit when listening (or reading, or whatever). At first, the Left and Right beams were separated by only about the width of my head (surprise, surprise), but now they’re separated by the width of the entire back cushion of the sofa, and the sweet spot is correspondingly wider. There are several ways to position speakers, some which give accurate and repeatable settings, but I find this is the easiest and quickest method for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 How about crossing their axes in front of you? What's that do for the sweet spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 1 hour ago, glens said: How about crossing their axes in front of you? What's that do for the sweet spot? No where near as good for me in my setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 On 7/5/2019 at 5:23 PM, glens said: Said to be running the 402 temporarily in place of an Altec 811B in an Altec 19 system, so I'd say nominally 800 Hz. The Model 19 crosses at 1200Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glens Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Back when he mentioned the crossover I did some research and I could've swore the response graphs crossed below 1k. Must've been something else, but whatever it was had the "mid" adjusting pad. No, I've still got the PDF of the manual. Here's a couple screenshots. I just never got to the specs. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggurat Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 My Xilica has arrived, so I will be able to cross over lower and have a play around in general on the Altec cabinets, which will serve until I build the horn bass bins. I think I've already said it, but the L-Pads are doing a remarkable job of smoothing the response. There is absolutely no harshness or radical peaks, at least to my ears. I can listen for hours to exceptionally realistic playback. If this is the worst case scenario, I cannot wait to see where this goes. The Altec 19s have he classic 40hz hump, but I'm getting reasonable response to 32hz, dropping off quickly from there. Listening to Brendan Perry's album Eye Of The Hunter last night, the system is presenting a huge, deep involving wall of sound. Just awesome. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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