Music to bomb Bagdad by

[forresthump2]

First I don't like to go spouting off about it for some kind of credibility and bragadocio, but I was in nam and Laos in 1959, 82nd Airborne, 77th SFGA. If you hadn't smoke so much weed over there after White Star led your way you might remember I mentioned this before.

Next, you or DeAngus don't know what the hell the plan is and even if the full infantry will be necessary. You sure as hell can't argue against that inspectors wouldn't be in there in the first place without a hardline, forceful stand. If this Admin listened to the Liberals we wouldn't have any Proactive policy. Al Sore would have sat on his *** and let Iraq develop a Nuke within a couple years. And you don't have to be a Liberal voter to think like one.

DeAngus can only answer my question to him by calling me a facist. LOL So beings that DeAngus agrees that Saddamn supports terrorism how can he not support taking him out. It IS about terrorism but you have to have a vision of how to guarentee that we don't have another massive attack on US. You have to go to the source and cut off their support system AND any POTENTIAL support system as those with logic and vision can see.

There will be diplomacy all along, but you know that Saddamn is going down. Must be stressful to know the end result but no NOTHING ELSE about what's really going on. If I'm now an armchair warrior, You're armchair peacenic hippies. LOL

So sit in your seats and feel all warm and fuzzy and self-righteous about yourselfs. But know you're simply misinformed decoys for the real world. Me i'll be sitting back and laughing at your delusions. LOL

But remember we're all in this together, except for certain Rad muslims, and that the enemy takes much solice in what you say. That's really good. They need to get complacent too. He-he

[sj993]

yes, I agree we are all in this together just in different ways. Just so you know I am not radical in any way, shape, or form despite what you may or may not believe.

There are multiple solutions to this problem, not just going to war with Iraq and Osama and killing them all. That won't accomplish the desired effect as there are other terrorists outside of just Osama and it won't be as simple as some people think. Saddam may be insane but he is not stupid. If the U.S. goes to war with Iraq it will only turn out in a negative way, perhaps not in the immediate future but down the road...

[prodj101]

being as smart as you are, you are aware that there are many different solutions to a problem right? Say for example, your car breaks down. You can obviously get a new car (and being as stupid as you are, you'd probably do that), you could just not use a car in the first place, or get it fixed. This is the same with the situation in the middle east. none of this would have started if we had simply pulled out when they asked us to. Would the World Trade Centers have been bombed? NO! would the suicide bombings of Isreal continue? NO! Both of these thigns would just go away if we got the hell out of there. We should not be funding Isreal, as they just use that extra money which they didn't need in the first place, to oppress Palestine. Suicide bombing is the only way they have to fight back! If they had tanks like Isreal does, they would be doing that instead! going to war will not solve any of the problems. it will simply make their hatred for us worse. If you lived in Iraq, and the country that you hate is threatening to go in and bomb you to hell, is it going to make you like them? no!

[HDBRbuilder]

Let me just add this...our goal is not the invasion of Iraq...our goal is three-fold.

1. To do our best to eliminate terrorism. Our leaders know that this is an impossible task...they have been the first to admit it, too!!Our best hope is to eliminate support for them...and to make it untenable for them to remain in one spot for training and such...keep them on the move, deprive them of funding, and lessen the risk that when they DO STRIKE, it will result in major loss of life!! That's about the best we can hope for!!

2. Get rid of Saddam Hussein. Our military and political leaders have been trying for over a decade, to no avail. Our best-case scenario is that he will slip-up and get taken out BEFORE the build-up for an invasion of Iraq, OR early on in the conflict. I know, but hate to even think about, the worst-case scenario!! It sickens me, and it will make VietNam look like a cake-walk!! Not only that, but it will direct even MORE hatred toward our country...and be a blessing to the fanatical terrorists we already have to deal with!!

3. Keep the mid-east oil flowing.

Diplomacy is NOT working...so far! We are discovering more and more of our supposed friends in the world are supporting those who want to destroy us everyday...whether or not they are doing it PURPOSELY or are being duped, it is still happening! Each time I fill my gas tank, I wonder if any of the money spent will end up paying for materials for a terrorist bomb. For that matter, each time I have a taste of Jameson, I wonder if part of what I spent on it will end up making a bomb that goes off in London!! This is a different world with different worries today. But I knew it was coming long before most of you did! Even in the 1980's, as the USSR began its collapse...and even before that...the military was concerned about the upcoming terrorism threat. It took 9/11 for the public to wake-up...but it was a MAJOR concern behind closed doors long before that...and the parameters of how to deal with it are still not locked in!! We used terrorism in our JRTC operations against the units who were there...and were always amazed just how indefensible it was!! And in our after action reviews, where we told the units we destroyed what they did or didn't do that caused their destruction...we were at a loss as to giving them a fool-proof way of how to deal with a terrorist threat...because there ISN'T ANY!!...at best, VIGILANCE is the key, along with deprivation of assets!!...the same thing used today...but you CANNOT stop it, just curb it somewhat, while hoping for the best!!

And that is the whole thing in a nutshell!!

BTW, Forrest, if you WERE SF, then you know damned well that giving polio vaccines, etc. to kids in villages, and treating their other illnesses...providing them with clean water, and facilities and materials for basic education, goes a helluva lot further than shooting them does!!! Those smiling parents are worth ten times as much to how our country is envisioned, than ANY amount of ammunition expended!!

[Brian HCM#1]

As far as music to bomb by...........................

This is dedicated to Saddam & Bin Laden

Band: Metallica

Song: SEEK & DESTROY

Album: KILL 'EM ALL

[bkrop]

Gentlemen,and I use that term loosely, since this is a site to interact and exchange information on all things Klipsch, I have a suggestion. Why not declare a moratorium on the exchange of debating points and personal invectives for say, two hours. During this time I recommend you all drink heavily. At that time I recommend you rejoin this debate in a private forum. I believe this subject falls into the categories of topics to be avoided at all costs in polite conversation, namely politics and religion. Hope you can just kick back and LIGHTEN UP! Sincerely...

[boa12]

i like "war pigs" by sabbath. i like bill ward's drums in that one.

[TheEAR]

I agree with bkrop

What does all this bull**** have to do with Klipsch. Another example how to take a great Kipsch forum and drag it down the drain.

[Deang]

It's the General Forum. We've been though this a dozen times. If you can't stomach it, no one says you have to participate. Just "change the channel".

[sj993]

tru, it's not like this is the only forum in here. If you recall it did start with "music to bomb Baghdad with."

[Deang]

Never mind.

[BLOOMIS914]

Bkrop- I took your advice and started drinking around dinner tonight and just got home to find that Boa12 had the best suggestion since my last post.

On topic, I second Boa12's vote for Black Sabbath's "War Pigs".....Now this is a great song.

I thought of another good one also, but can't think of the name right now, it's the metallica song with the choppers at the beginning and end....Help me out with this one somebody...

How about we only allow posts on topic in this thread and then someone else can start a thread called "Why I love liberal policy"

[mike stehr]

"One"

[Brian HCM#1]

Yep, "One" form Metallica's...........and Justice for all. A most excelent choice of tunes I may add

[HDBRbuilder]

Bloomis...so far I haven't seen any liberal policy posts...but I have definitely seen plenty of war-mongering B.S. from folks who are not, nor will likely BE in a position to have to write letters home to relatives of young men sent over there. My concern is for THOSE YOUNG MEN!! Plain and simple!!

You MUST understand one thing very well...the likelihood of this upcoming conflict being anything like anything we have sent our boys off to in the past is very doubtful!! And I don't feel the lives of our young men should be so easily written off in this political fervor I am seeing in here. All I want to see is a Peaceful resolution to this mess so that we don't have to follow through with a protracted ground conflict. Iraq is not a nation of vast flat desert terrain. It has a wide variety of terrain ...and will require light infantry to do most of the job...especially in the required urban operations. These boys won't have the benefit of sitting in an armored vehicle with some semblence of protection...they are gonna be out in the open, doing their job, and dying in the process. We aren't gonna be kicking somebody else out of another country, but instead we will be invading a country...big difference!!

There is nothing liberal in anything I have said...just factual info...it is others who have attempted to label me in that manner...ones who...if ever "in the know"...have been out of it for a very long time! That is not the case for me!!

Things have changed alot since their day...but it is still a foot soldier who has to do this kind of job...and there isn't a single one of these soldiers OR their trainers who has ever been in the kind of war this could end up being!!

Until it happens nobody will know for sure what the conflict will end up like...but I am pretty sure it won't be what you folks expect...even in your worst nightmares!!

There is nothing politically inclined in my desire for these young men...and even the vets among them, to be spared from what they will most likely have to be up against.

Our Army has the best-trained men in the world, the most educated ones too, and every one of them is a volunteer, the best equipment, etc... but it is half the size it was last time around, and is facing one very different kind of upcoming struggle. I am confident that the readiness level of the units is as good as can be expected, but I am also very well aware that even the highest level of readiness in a unit doesn't make it invulnerable to destruction from a low-tech force much smaller in size, that is defending its own back yard. I have seen the results first-hand, thank GOD that MOST(but not all) of what I have seen like that was in just a laser-tag kind of situation designed to help them learn from their mistakes...but no matter how many times we told them what their mistakes were, their resultant training was never modified to eliminate these very costly mistakes, honestly!! I watched the same thing be repeated over and over, unit after unit...no matter how hard we tried to drum it into them...and I and my compadres in this endeavor watched them go over there the last time, right after making the mistakes over here, one battalion at a time...and all we could do was to hope like hell they learned something, or even better...didn't have to confront anything over there like they had confronted when they were up against us!! Luckily, they didn't have to!! I am very afraid that won't be the case this time!!

Therefore, I will say this once more...THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY!!!

[Audio Flynn]

Builder,

I agree it is all about preserving the lives of U.S. Citizens in the armed forces whatever we do. NOS boy in jump school impresses upon me the personalized situation we are in.

A close relative of mine is in covert ops... somewhere. His mother will not know if he is alive or dead for Christmas.

It damn well TORQUES! me off these little buggers declared war on us and hide in schools and mosques. Kill non combatants and on and on.

We did not start anything.

They are not civilized. Pound the infrastucture until the consituency of these totalitarian dictators overthrows them to me is plan A. Sadly most of the constituents are uncivilized sheep.

Review Moslem slaughter(or planned starvation) of women and children in Africa over the past 20 years. I do not have time to play fact checker tonight.

This thread demaonstrates to me we are in a long term messed up situation. Ingnoring the situation will allow radical Islam flourish unfortunately.

[BLOOMIS914]

Brian/Mike----"One"......Thanks, I can't believe I forgot that one.

HDBR- Ligthen up....I did not single you out with my "liberal policy" statement, sorry if you felt I did.

I, in fact, find you are overly diplomatic regarding this situation and therefore I will categorize you leaning to towards the left or a "do nothing" policy. Your posts are thought provoking, albeit long-winded, but Audioflynn did a fine job of summarizing what most of us Conservative folks are thinking.

You continuously avoid the fact that we are not dealing with rational human beings who value life, diplomacy and a western way of life, so therefore, do we allow them to grow in strength and inflict more damage around the civilized world or do we send the only message that these people understand?----Loss of life.

Wars are not desirable....I think we all agree, but we MAY have to risk our American soldiers to protect the greater good. I have the confidence that our military will not put our troops in too many ground combat situations....were you around for Desert Storm?...The damn Iraqi's ran to us with their hands up after seeing what a few hellfire missiles can do.

You said it best, we are not evicting Iraq from another country, so all the more reason to just focus on an extended air campaign until such time there are no more targets. You are biased towards protecting our troops and I am biased towards protecting our country and what it stands for (the greater good). I pray we don't lose a soul, but if I had to decide, you have to err on the side of deterring/destroying them and the greater good, before they hit us again.

[HDBRbuilder]

Invading Iraq will do nothing to protect our country from terrorism...it will likely just create a larger number of fanatics who will resort to terrorism against us. The vast majority of the people of Iraq are no different than you and I except they are living alot poorer. They are not ALL fanatics...as you seem to believe. And just because their leaders are lunatic fanatics, doesn't mean they support them...as a matter of fact, they are not given any choice...it is "do or die" over there. Theirs is not a Democratic Republic in any form or fashion.

Yes, I WAS DEFINITELY around for desert storm..I was at JRTC rapidly training the guys one battalion at a time before they were sent over there...that was our job...and the powers that be would not let us go because they needed us doing what we did alot more than they needed us over there...with the exception of just two battalions, EVERY battalion of the 82nd Airborne Division, the 101st Airborne Division, and the 10th Mountain Division was sent to us...we kicked each battalion's azz royally...told them what they did wrong that allowed us to kick it...sent them to kiss their wives goodbye, then they deployed over there!! The unit I was in, was then, and still is...labelled as the finest light infantry organization in the world!! Its job is to tear a new azzhole in units so that they improve their training, so that in war they will survive!! I definitely KNOW what the hell I am talking about...I guarantee that I can take a platoon-sized element using non-high-tech equipment and render an entire battalion of anything the Army has to offer up combat ineffective in a matter of 8 hours or LESS!! I did it over and over again...and I still can!! When I say that you folks have no damned idea of what may damned well be coming, trust me I FREAKIN AIN'T KIDDING!!

There is a reason why Battalion Commanders shudder when their battalion is scheduled for a JRTC rotation...and I was one of those reasons!! They KNOW DAMNED well that no matter what they THINK their battalion's operational readiness level is, when they go to JRTC, they are gonna get torn to bits...no ifs, ands, or buts about it!! The BEST they can hope for is to learn something from their mistakes and to not screw up so badly that they get relieved of command when they return to their regiments with their battalions!! No damned amount of air superiority, or hi-tech equipment does a damned thing to help them out either, because we knew how to deal with it all in our own backyard!!

The worst thing about it all is that every damned "JRTC lesson-learned" paper has been published and is public knowledge...none of it is classified, and it is all a rehash of the same mistakes made over and over. Don't think that our enemies around the world haven't been reading them...and don't think that they aren't prepared to teach us a lesson when the time comes!! None of the tricks we used are new...they have all been used against us before in war...and they will be used against us again!! Bad habits breed dead soldiers!! And all armies have bad habits!! As a matter of fact...the more hi-tech an army is, the more bad habits it will practice!! I know what the hell I am talking about here!! And I am scared to death for those young men!! If you have a lick of sense you will be too!!

[forresthump2]

"Invading Iraq will do nothing to protect our country from terrorism...it will likely just create a larger number of fanatics who will resort to terrorism against us."

HornBlower, LIGHT infantry laser tag trainer OVER a decade ago

"The temporary peace of denial and looking away from danger would only be a prelude to broader war and greater horror. America will confront gathering dangers early before our options become limited and desperate.'

George W. Bush, President of the United States

If you not a liberal then why do you keep making blind statements from the Liberal Handbook? LOL And Boy I haven't heard as much hot air since those drunk marines down at the VFW lounge. LOL

Keep in mind Military are not Civilians. It is there JOB to do as ordered and to protect American civilians as the CIC sees fit PERIOD.

Here are the signs of a Liberal and those who are thinking like one.

"Its All About Oil"

WRONG. Its First and Foremost about protecting the Lives of American Civilians NOW & FROM POTENTIAL THREATS IN THE FUTURE. Its NOT about waiting for hundreds or thousands or millions of Americans to lose their lives & then responding. And the Liberals have it backwards. BECAUSE Iraq has oil, it has the $$$$ and power to be a greater global threat.

"Its another Vietnam"

WAR was publicly declared on us by OBL himself in the 90s and made clear by the attacks of 9-11. What was also made clear is that a defensive posture alone is not enough to ensure that

further massive terrorist attacks will not happen to US. Proactive and preemptive action is not only needed on Past and Present Perps but also against FUTURE THREATS of terrorism and ESPECIALLY WMD. AND The GOP Admins have shown that they have learned the lessons of 'Nam that once the war decision is made Political Restraint is no way to fight.

"Its Unilateral"

What is Unilateral is the leadership by W. Bush. After 8 years of Slick Willy the world forgot about leadership from a US president. If you Libbies havent heard the vote on the new UN resolution was UNANIMOUS including Syria. YOU LIBBIES don't know the difference between forcefull leadership and Unilateral War. Because Slick Willy let Saddamn break the Gulf War peace treaty doesn't make that any more right than when he refused Sudan's offer to HAND OVER OBL 4 different times.

No Peace Loving people want war but the Libbies don't get how to prevent war or WWIII. They only support WAR after the fact. But with terrorism and WMD letting the Enemy hit first NO LONGER WORKS.

[HDBRbuilder]

Forrest...

Just because I was there a decade ago doesn't mean that was when I left OR got out. We didn't just get assigned to that unit, we were hand-selected based on our prior experiences, and training. If you have never been, then don't assume you have any idea what goes on there. The Chief of Staff of the Army didn't make a special trip down here to DENY all of our requests for reassignment to deploying units the last time around in an en masse meeting, for no reason!! He convinced us that the reason our requests(100% of us by the way!!!) were being denied was because we were needed much more where we were!! The OPFOR at JRTC is made up of the VERY best our military has! And it is AIRBORNE, too!...NOT just a bunch of light grunts!! It is also now a deployable unit! And I am sure it will be deployed this time around!! Most likely partly as pathfinders, and the remainder as an Airborne battalion combat team!

You have obviously been out of the loop for a very long time not to already know this and to label it as no more than a "laser-tag" unit!! On the other hand, I have only very recently gotten out...but there is a damned good chance that I will be reactivated!! As a matter of fact I am HOPING that they reactivate me!! My request has already been forwarded...and I have made a few contacts with old compadres to help in the situation any they can!!

If that happens, I more than welcome it, because I have full confidence that whoever ends up under my command will stand a much better chance of survival in what I expect to occur...because I will not allow myself and my men to make the mistakes I have seen others make in the past!! If they call up this 49 year old man, he will grab his chute, ruck, and rifle, and be the first one out the door of the C-130...and the first one to hit the ground!! I LEAD THE WAY!! That is MY style!! The missions given to me WILL be accomplished, and with minimal loss of men under my command!! If those boys need a good experienced leader, and the powers that be want me to do the job, I will damned sure be there for them!!

Where will YOU BE, Forrest????? The same place you are RIGHT NOW...sitting on your arse and woofing crap while you watch it all on CNN!! As my daddy used to say..."The dog that barks the loudest, seldom leaves the porch!"