Corona Virus Disease/(SARS-CoV-2) II

[pzannucci]

14 minutes ago, JJkizak said:

Don't we all have a PHD in bullcrap?

JJK

Hear Hear...

 

Nothing anyone says is going to get things going unless we get tests (for the illness so we can fight it and we don't have spreaders all over) and antibody in particular.  With that, I keep hearing "a few weeks", "a few weeks".... yes I wish they would just be quiet about those for now until we know better that they are ready for mass production and use.

[BigStewMan]

28 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

I'm confused, what are people spun up  about?  O wait, misinformation even from each of the entities that are supposed to be experts, playing down and providing falsehoods, things like mask usage as above, everything.  Isn't that the way it always goes?  The other side of the coin is that some sweep it under the rug though without a though process and direction, NOTHING would happen.

 

I guess people should get spun up.  Everyone knows these are not facts other than that people don't understand that DATA is used for facts and they had no DATA. 

If ignorance is bliss, so be it.  Might help keep you mentally sound while in lockdown.

 

you're confused?  I'm more confused at your argument or I'm just not understanding your position. 

I'm all about withholding judgment until evidence is studied and determined to be factual.

People can believe whatever they want ... avoid cell phone towers if it makes them feel better. not buying everything said by those that are hosted by media programs isn't sweeping anything under the rug. there used to be something called critical thinking. when one doctor says put household hydrogen peroxide in a nebulizer and other doctors say don't because that is dangerous ... I would hope that people use more than their love of their favorite news outlet or media personality to determine which they're going to believe. 

my point from the beginning is that opinions aren't facts. if your opinion is tested and peer-reviewed and later determined to be accurate, then it's not really just your opinion anymore, it's moved past the opinion phase. right now, we're inundated with merely opinion.

and that is my opinion.

 

[Jeff Matthews]

3 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

if your opinion is tested and peer-reviewed and later determined to be accurate, then it's not really just your opinion anymore, it's moved past the opinion phase. right now, we're inundated with merely opinion.

This is ok for some things.  For example, there are many "home remedies" for various ailments which actually work.  I've used a few successfully.  There aren't peer studies on them because there is no viable business reason to pay for these studies.  For example, you can remove (at least some) warts by covering them with banana peels held in place by tape or a band-aid.  Big RX can't patent banana peels, and they're widely available for a nominal cost.  Therefore, you will find a lot of "opinion" on it but no major studies to, as you say, "make it fact."

 

 

[oldtimer]

9 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

there used to be something called critical thinking.

Amen, brother.

[BigStewMan]

15 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

This is ok for some things.  For example, there are many "home remedies" for various ailments which actually work.  I've used a few successfully.  There aren't peer studies on them because there is no viable business reason to pay for these studies.  For example, you can remove (at least some) warts by covering them with banana peels held in place by tape or a band-aid.  Big RX can't patent banana peels, and they're widely available for a nominal cost.  Therefore, you will find a lot of "opinion" on it but no major studies to, as you say, "make it fact."

 

 

of course there is and I didn't mean to insinuate that ONLY peer-review or major studies can produce facts -- it would be impossible to study everything. I don't conduct a stability test on my chair each time before I sit in it, I've sat in it enough times to satisfy my belief that it will hold me. So for me, it's not merely my opinion that the chair is safe for a 214 pound man to sit in.  Maybe it won't always hold that weight, but that is a separate argument. 

inhaling household hydrogen peroxide, for example, is either safe or not. if that doctor saying that it is effective can produce more people that have done it safely than the number that have been harmed, then I would accept that his claim is more than just his opinion. 

we shouldn't just take everything that someone claims as fact -- or dispute the things we don't want to believ just because we don't want to believe it. there comes a time when we have to think critically. we owe that to ourselves and others if we're charged with their care. 

[pzannucci]

28 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

you're confused?  I'm more confused at your argument or I'm just not understanding your position. 

I'm all about withholding judgment until evidence is studied and determined to be factual.

People can believe whatever they want ... avoid cell phone towers if it makes them feel better. not buying everything said by those that are hosted by media programs isn't sweeping anything under the rug. there used to be something called critical thinking. when one doctor says put household hydrogen peroxide in a nebulizer and other doctors say don't because that is dangerous ... I would hope that people use more than their love of their favorite news outlet or media personality to determine which they're going to believe. 

my point from the beginning is that opinions aren't facts. if your opinion is tested and peer-reviewed and later determined to be accurate, then it's not really just your opinion anymore, it's moved past the opinion phase. right now, we're inundated with merely opinion.

and that is my opinion.

 

Again, your argument is wait until you say anything and my argument is what is the big deal if you understand data is required and not yet acquired.  So obviously we aren't crossed other than you don't understand why you would want to bring something up.  My point is it starts at the bottom with ideas, particularly forcing those ideas through the channels since the US has way too much bureaucracy.

The argument is that it is dangerous and I say how many discoveries started as dangerous..  If you are crazy enough to drink fish tank cleaner... I can't help you.

Everything starts with opinions until verified... So still not sure what the big deal is unless people aren't smart enough and take too much garbage at face value and don't wait for something more stable, information and data, behind it. 

[pzannucci]

27 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Amen, brother.

And for that you need multiple inputs.  Everyone should be able to not take things at face value and run with them.  That is critical thinking.

[OO1]

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[oldtimer]

critical thinking

• n.
  The application of logical principles, rigorous standards of evidence, and careful reasoning to the analysis and discussion of claims, beliefs, and issues.

[BigStewMan]

6 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

Again, your argument is wait until you say anything

my argument is more wait until you have something of value to say to the public and just don't look for 15-minutes of fame on tv or you tube just for the sake of attempting to make oneself relevant. 

you've read far more into my objection than is there. 

[OO1]

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[pzannucci]

30 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

This is ok for some things.  For example, there are many "home remedies" for various ailments which actually work.  I've used a few successfully.  There aren't peer studies on them because there is no viable business reason to pay for these studies.  For example, you can remove (at least some) warts by covering them with banana peels held in place by tape or a band-aid.  Big RX can't patent banana peels, and they're widely available for a nominal cost.  Therefore, you will find a lot of "opinion" on it but no major studies to, as you say, "make it fact."

 

 

Exactly... When time is of the essence, there is a word called RISK.  When you download that program, it's called risk.  Will it steal your life and history... risk

People need to get out of the black and white, go to gray and work with probabilities.  That's how the brain works.  That's how AI works.  Find as much data as you can, filter it, and move forward based on your ability to handle risk.  

 

If I had COVID-19, the first thing I would ask for is stuff that only has anecdotal evidence of working if I am sick.  Better than waiting two year for proof if I might die.  Risk is with anything including crossing the street... looking both ways is not a guaranty.

[BigStewMan]

Just now, Randyh said:

Right ,  all we're asking is for a stinking vaccine , is that too much to ask 

yes. I prefer one that doesn't stink. 

[Sancho Panza]

Ohio opening for business, May 1st.

[OO1]

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[BigStewMan]

4 minutes ago, pzannucci said:

If I had COVID-19, the first thing I would ask for is stuff that only has anecdotal evidence of working if I am sick.

as would I; but my problem is with those presenting it as more than anecdotal evidence. risks that I take are different than risks that I'd advice others to take, particularly if they viewed me as an authority. 

brainstorm like crazy, but it doesn't have to be done publicly, and (I don't know for fact) but I wonder if those we're seeing making the rounds of the news shows and posting You Tube videos are not involved in research, study, analysis, or treatment and are merely making themselves a social media personality?

[OO1]

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[USNRET]

9 minutes ago, Randyh said:

this is a really cool way to make money -----a dream ,  full rent , no occupancy

There are ~ 3,000 residents and I am told by a student employee that ~ 1/2 have remained due to such things as international students, those that do not want to go home, etc

 

[pzannucci]

16 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

critical thinking

• n.
  The application of logical principles, rigorous standards of evidence, and careful reasoning to the analysis and discussion of claims, beliefs, and issues.

Exactly right.  I don't see one thing in the list that is 100%, like math.  It's is using all the knowledge and apply logic.  Shake and stir.  Factor in some claims and beliefs... Sounds like a risk assessment to me.  Like the square root of 2 vs 1+1=2. 

[OO1]

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