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rplace

DAC/Streamers, Streaming, Networked Music Systems

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While wireless definitely will work on a good network, keep in mind that if you can hardwire your streamer you can definitely improve the sound.

 

Shakey

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Interesting....At least to me. I have two different RPi 4s running on my system. The difference between the two temperatures below are a result of the case I showed previously.

 

RoonNow.thumb.JPG.d1429cf51ede5a6b3d2e0a55a08f4d5d.JPG

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6 hours ago, rplace said:

 

I'm not streaming due to my data limits and my current terrible Internet access, but I have. Music even HighRez uses a lot less bandwidth than video (something like NetFlix). Once you get the bits into your house, you should be able to move them to all your devices/endpoints wirelessly. As @pbphoto points out it would be a function of your wireless set up. Technically it is possible. If you have a 3-story house and the single transmitter is in one corner of the basement, probably not. If you have good coverage throughout your house, it should work fine.

 

These would be the streamer and DAC combo in post #1 picture. Not Roon, per se.  

 

Not 100% sure since I don't do it, but they will have some way to manage your account and some way to play it (DAC). My experience has always been that the companies (Sony/Denon/NAD/etc.) UI/UX is lacking. Software built by engineers is terrible. It will work but you won't like it. Think web sites in 1994. The real joy of Roon is the actual use of the software. There are tons of way to play digital music throughout your house....most of them stink, IMO.

 

 

This is exactly what I do (not outside, but dual zone). I have a living room 5.1 set up with an AVR. That AVR has a zone 2 option that I use to power another pair of Klipsch outdoor speakers on my deck. That single, digital device feeds both the living room and the deck. The outdoor system for my pool/backyard is on its own separate system.

What are you running for the outdoor pool system? 

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2 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

What are you running for the outdoor pool system? 

 

RPi 4 to>> Carver TFM-25 to>> Klipsch AW-650. I posted a page or two back. Also have eero WiFi extenders to reach into the pool/yard area. 

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6 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

While wireless definitely will work on a good network, keep in mind that if you can hardwire your streamer you can definitely improve the sound.

 

Shakey

How is this possible?

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36 minutes ago, pbphoto said:

How is this possible?

 

Well how is it possible that wifi sounds better than Bluetooth? Both are wireless interfaces. But it does. And why do different cables have a sonic signature? But they do.

 

Hard wired sounds better than wifi to my ears. Not earth shattering, but worth the hassle for me. 

 

Shakey

 

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BT is a different animal.  I believe even the most modern BT codecs are still lossy, but have gotten a lot better over the years.  Wifi-ethernet and wired-ethernet are both capable of delivering in-order bit-perfect data to the end-point over TCP/IP.  And then whatever streaming app you are using probably has optimizations at the app-layer above TCP/IP.  Maybe what you are hearing is some end-points might prefer one over the other (optimized NIC card or driver etc) and people can hear a difference.

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Ok I'm looking at the Auralic Altaire G1. It seems to have everything discussed in this thread.

 

Wi-Fi, Tidal and Qobuzz ready, 2TB SSD, will play DSD all the way up to latest ver. DSD512 (I have a lot of DSD), you can connect a usb cd player to it to play CDs or RIP to SSD, and on and on.

 

Anyone familar with this and features?

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Here's a short video on the Wyred 4 Sound MS Music Server. Wyred 4 Sound has an Essential version available as well and both are on sale now.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yDrn7xlGms&feature=youtu.be

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Just in case anyone is a veteran...you get a nice discount on Tidal.

Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk

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I'm currently using Pure Music on my Mac Mini. Channel D is a few Mac OS versions behind. I can't upgrade the OS until Channel D does their part.

I've been tossing around doing the Wyred MS Music server for awhile now. It would mate well with my DAC, I could finally upgrade my Mac Mini to the latest OS, all my digital music stored on external HD would work, plus the biggest would be to experience Roon.

 

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2 hours ago, NBPK402 said:

Just in case anyone is a veteran...you get a nice discount on Tidal.

Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk
 

TIDAL is honored to offer a 40% discount to all who are serving or have served in the US Military.   

Each new sign up will receive a 30-day free trial after which the discounted rate will apply.


Military Premium - $5.99 USD a month with standard sound quality, high definition music videos, and expertly curated editorial. 

Military HiFi - $11.99 USD a month with lossless High Fidelity sound quality, high definition music videos, and expertly curated editorial. 

         

To signup for a discounted plan, go to TIDAL.com and begin creating an account. After entering your basic information, you will be prompted to select your subscription type. Here you can choose between Premium or HiFi and then select the Military discount.

If you are already a TIDAL member and wish to apply the discount to your active subscription, you can do so by logging in at my.TIDAL.com. You will have to click on subscription and then scroll down to select Military discount. 

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Speaking of Tidal deals,  they just offered me 4 months of their top tier stream for $1.99 total.   Needless to say,  I took it.  it also sounds pretty damn good. I am listening to it through the computer and through their Tidal app on the Roku at the moment, till I find a better streamer.  By the way, Tidal's best streaming quality through the Roku, according to the Tidal help pages, is at 44.1 lossless CD quality.   

   

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On 11/25/2020 at 11:03 PM, dwilawyer said:

Ok I'm looking at the Auralic Altaire G1. It seems to have everything discussed in this thread.

 

Wi-Fi, Tidal and Qobuzz ready, 2TB SSD, will play DSD all the way up to latest ver. DSD512 (I have a lot of DSD), you can connect a usb cd player to it to play CDs or RIP to SSD, and on and on.

 

Anyone familar with this and features?

 

I've not heard/seen/had one so my opinion is purely based on looking at the specs and reading several reviews. It seems like a good option if you just want to plunk down your money and be done. Easy, simple no fuss. Decent, if not better, middle of the road - all in one box.

 

I think it might be like back in the day when we were all "discovering" tubes and you dipped your toe in the water with a Scott 222, even though you knew you knew, based on what others said,  you were not going to be happy with it. And eventually you would get a Blueberry Pre and VRD amps. I did the Scott/Fischer thing, then modded MK IIIs....all the while knowing I should have just laid down my $$$ and waited for the VRDs to be built. Eventually I did, as most of us did. I should have cut out the middle man and just jumped the line to tube bliss right from the start.

 

Aren't you getting Jubilees? If so I'm guessing you are not getting passive networks are you? So it does not seem like you are afraid of a little messing around with cords, wires, tinkering, measuring and learning.

 

Point being that all in one G1 is probably going to do a lot of things okay, but nothing great. I'll pick one apart at a time and be curious to see what others think

  • WiFi - I'd rather be hardwired....call me old fashioned. @Shakeydeal feel free to pile on here!!!
  • Tital, Qobuzz "ready" The interface/app will probably suck. I base this on the numerous digital system I've had over 15+ years. The ALL suck. Electronic companies stink at designing software. I suppose I could be wrong. Roon and Sonos are the only two that come close to being a pleasure to use. It's amazing what we put up with as audio people. I think at some level, we actually like being the only person to be able to use our system. Roon supports Tidal and Qobuzz. Roon is like that killer all in one remote, seems pricy on the surface but in the end  you can't live without it.
  • 2TB SSD. If I read it correctly it is extra for that option. 2TB IMHO is not enough space. Especially when you say you have a lot of DSD file
  • You can connect a CD player to it, so what. Really, why would you want to? Rip all of your CDs to FLAC on local storage and put all your CDs in deep storage. You are already open to the idea of a local digital library because you are taking about 2TB of storage. For reference I started with two mirrored 3TB drives and ran out of space earlier this years. I'd say you need 4-5TB to be future proof for a while.
  • The DAC chip in this is not the top of the line Saber chip. Yes it matters how the chip is implemented not just what chip it is....but with a 5-Cornwall Home Theater in your review and Jubes on the way will you ever sleep peacefully at night knowing you don't have the current "best"? Hopefully this is coming off sort of tongue-in-cheek as I intended but really this is equivalent of a Denon Receiver when you are for sure a "separates guy". Starting from scratch with Jubes one might argue you don't even want a DAC beyond the one used as your active crossover. If you had a fully digital active XO like @Thaddeus Smith 's Yamaha versus the Xilica that so many of us have (myself included) you cold stay purely digital until the XO feeds your amps. This was not a concern when I was 100% analogue up to my Xilica, but I'm pondering this in the future.

 

I suggest you spend $2K on a DAC not $3.5K this all in one box. Build up an Intel NUC that runs free Roon software called ROCK, get a couple of 5TB USB drives (they will connect to the USB of the NUC). Roon will do Qobuzz/Tital better than the all in one box will. Roon will delight you with a truly usable interface and help you rediscover a lot of the music you already own. You will have spent less money, have more storage and have a better sounding digital system.

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1 hour ago, rplace said:

think it might be like back in the day when we were all "discovering" tubes and you dipped your toe in the water with a Scott 222, even though you knew you knew, based on what others said,  you were not going to be happy with it. And eventually you would get a Blueberry Pre and VRD amps. I did the Scott/Fischer thing, then modded MK IIIs....all the while knowing I should have just laid down my $$$ and waited for the VRDs to be built. E

Good memory, back in the day I started with a MX110 and Mac MC30s, and got VRDs, and Blueberry. 

 

1 hour ago, rplace said:

Aren't you getting Jubilees? If so I'm guessing you are not getting passive networks are you? So it does not seem like you are afraid of a little messing around with cords, wires, tinkering, measuring and learning.

I have Jubes, they are that African Mahogany pair, that will be dedicated 2CH upstairs. I'm pretty sure I will want the new Jubes when they come out.

 

Don't have a 5.1 CW setup, must be someone else.

 

1 hour ago, rplace said:

Roon and Sonos are the only two that come close to being a pleasure to use. It's amazing what we put up with as audio people. I think at some level, we actually like being the only person to be able to use our system.

I forgot to Mention it's Roon Ready/Certified, which I'm sold on. I like all the information.

 

So this will mainly be for playing music outside on deck. I would, eventually like to also figure out how to hook up a couple of The Three II to it up stairs on network. 

 

So what do I need for a NUC, and which DAC do you reccomend. (it has to be able to decode DSD, and there seems to be a big jump for that).

 

I'm fine with paying for Roon, and it seems like it will be easy for my wife to select songs, etc.

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1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:

Don't have a 5.1 CW setup, must be someone else

 

Yea, I'm getting old and there are a lot of you guys from TX it seems. Also lot of nice systems have passed in and out since the early 2000s.

 

1 hour ago, dwilawyer said:

So this will mainly be for playing music outside on deck. I would, eventually like to also figure out how to hook up a couple of The Three II to it up stairs on network. 

 

So what do I need for a NUC, and which DAC do you reccomend. (it has to be able to decode DSD, and there seems to be a big jump for that).

 

I'm fine with paying for Roon, and it seems like it will be easy for my wife to select songs, etc.

 

If you are already sold on Roon and it will be a second system for casual listening I'd even argue more for not getting the Auralic, unless you are just looking for simple plug and play. If willing to do just a bit of tinkering I think you can do a lot better for less money.

 

NUC = Next Unit of Computing and is basically a tiny, powerful desktop. You can run it without keyboard/monitor for Roon and it is the nerve center. You can hide it anywhere you can stash stuff. Roon has a list of all the compatible NUCs that work with their software (ROCK). There is a ton of info here. If you want to know all about it.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/roon-optimized-core-kit

 

The have a link to all the parts you need about 1/2 way down the page. If money is an issue (probably not given your other equipment) you can mess around saving a few buck with an i3 or i5 processor. It can limit your library size and the ability to use Roon's DSP, something you might want down the line. My advice just buy one and be done. Get an i7.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08357VWB2/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=roonlabs0b-20&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B08357VWB2&linkId=6352ed6ea822cdc29eebb97cd0370728

 

From the Roon site:

Quote

We recommend the NUC10i7FNH with 8GB RAM and 128GB (or more) M.2 SSD for large libraries (12k+ albums) or heavy DSP use.

 

Note that small hard drive size. It is only the Roon Database that needs to be on something very fast. The M.2 HDD is faster than a SATA solid state drive. Again don't worry about a few pennies get an i7, 8 or 16GB Ram and a proper size M.2 SDD. Smallish SSD drives are getting harder to find. So no big deal if $10-20 more and it is a 256GB or even 500GB. If you buy the three things (i7 NUC, RAM M.2 SSD) and you have a small Philips screwdriver you can put it together yourself in 10-15 minutes. Download the ROCK operating system from Roon and install it. Done. Now you have your Roon brains for 500-700 dollars.

 

Buy something like this to put your music files on:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WD-Passport-5TB-Hard-Drive-NEW-Free-2-DAY-UPS-WDBPKJ0050BBK-WESN-/224250656095?hash=item343661755f

For less than $120 and plug that into one of the USB ports on the NUC now you have 5TB of storage directly connected to your Roon brains for well under a grand...probably $750 if  you shop around at all. After shopping a bit and waiting I got an i7 NUC, 32GB RAM and 500GB M.2 SSD for just over $500 delivered. It was a pretty good deal at the time.

 

$75 for the RPi 4, case and accessories I showed the receipt for a page or two back and any DAC for $1000 or less and you are rocking the suburbs for under $2k.

 

Everyone likes what they have or have had so spend as much time as you like running down the DAC that fits your needs. Hopefully others will chime in. Personally I can't imagine a better sounding DAC for 500-1500 dollars then a Denafrips Ares II. I just sold one to a forum member because I "upgraded" to the Venus II at 4X the money. The Venus is slightly better but for the pool and around the house I'd never spend that kind of coin. Here is the Ares II link:

https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/denafrips-ares-r2r-dac

 

Note the price is in Singapore dollars, it will be about $750-$780 depending on the exchange rate and what your CCard/PayPal charges you. Both the Ares II and my Venus II play all version of my HighRez files. Cool thing about Roon it knows what your "endpoints" are. Endpoints = player (computer, phone,tablet, DAC, Oppo, etc.) and converts the DSD/HighRez files for devices that can't play them.

 

So with Roon all version of all your music can be played anywhere. Here is Roon converting a HighRez (96/24 WAV file) that my Sonos device could never play natively. If you are not familiar with Sonos they are a pretty handy way to get music in any room. All they need is a power outlet. I use them along with Roon to get music in my Office, Bedroom kitchen and garage.

 

RoonConversion.jpg.723b5b04f8808d1b8018e88eec8e236d.jpg

 

So for less than 2,000 dollars probably 1,500 if you really tired you can have a Roon system with 5TB of storage and amazing sound to your outdoor space. For another $99 you can get a refurbished Sonos Play:1 to have nice sound in any space you have an electrical outlet. https://www.sonos.com/en-us/shop/certified-refurbished-2 Remember Roon does Tiday/Qobuzz so nothing else needed in your laundry list from the Auralic. Get the Roon 3-month subscription today for 1 dollar (ends soon) and you can install on any laptop you have and start kicking the tires. BTW, I have nothing to do with Roon, just a happy customer....much like we all are with Klipsch.

 

Hope this helps!

 

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@rplace, what would you recommend for an inexpensive Roon endpoint? Need to set up my garage system and it's been a couple years since I’ve researched this. 
 

I run a modded MAC mini for my Roon server and have two systems feeding from that. Really enjoy Roon, it's a superb interface. Bee a subscriber since they released Roon. 
 

cincy

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3 minutes ago, cincymat said:

@rplace, what would you recommend for an inexpensive Roon endpoint? Need to set up my garage system and it's been a couple years since I’ve researched this. 
 

I run a modded MAC mini for my Roon server and have two systems feeding from that. Really enjoy Roon, it's a superb interface. Bee a subscriber since they released Roon. 
 

cincy

 

If you have any old speakers and gear(amp/integrated/AVR/ect.) I picked up a used Sonos Connect for $75 on ebay. Dead simple you will need to have Cat-5 or WiFi range in the garage. The connect is really handy when you already have speakers you like and some way of powering them. If you need power they make one with an internal amp as well. They were expensive new, but now that new version are out they are pretty cheap used. They also have optical/coax digital out if you want to hook up a better DAC and use it only as a streamer/bridge...but if that were the case I just use a RPi, RoPieee and its USB out to  your DAC.

 

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/sonos-zoneplayer-zp90-review/

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

If you have any old speakers and gear(amp/integrated/AVR/ect.) I picked up a used Sonos Connect for $75 on ebay. Dead simple you will need to have Cat-5 or WiFi range in the garage. The connect is really handy when you already have speakers you like and some way of powering them. If you need power they make one with an internal amp as well. They were expensive new, but now that new version are out they are pretty cheap used. They also have optical/coax digital out if you want to hook up a better DAC and use it only as a streamer/bridge...but if that were the case I just use a RPi, RoPieee and its USB out to  your DAC.

 

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/sonos-zoneplayer-zp90-review/

 

 

 

 

Thanks! That's exactly what I need. Already have integrated amp and speakers.

 

cincy

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