K-402 replacement

[MMurg]

29 minutes ago, NBPK402 said:

Here it is...he had at least 6 a few days ago.

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There it is.  I couldn't find that post again with Facebook's horrible search.  This post by Cory why I mentioned above that PHT had 402s in stock.

[Hilltoppa]

Much thanks to all for your thoughts/guidance.

 

PrestonTom - I will keep that offer in mind.  One of the biggest issues I have is that I have not heard what the sound can be - I am making all this up as I go. That's part of the fun.  Where are you approximately so I can see how far it is. If you are ever my way please feel free to stop in. 

 

I will try some of the JBL horns on the KPT-904 box.  That could be an interesting comaparison. I'll let you now how it goes. I have both 2384 and the 2374 horns and drivers.

 

I'l call Paducah Home Theatre tomorrow to see if they still have the K-402's. 

 

I have done a lot with speaker orientation and locations to optimize the sound - based on my ears. I will get the UMIC/REW system running to see how close I dialed it in. Will probably be pretty humbling!

 

I am not at the point of biamping or splitting my amp/pre set up.  For now I have an integrated amp and will optimize around that.  Long term, once I get the integrated system optimized, I will probably look at a split system where I can shape the sound better. 

 

I also would like to state that the system sounds fantastic to my ears - with all three sets of speakers running concurrently. The K-510 is just slightly off from the others.  I thought I would have severe interference issues running the different Bass Units together.  I have horn loded, active enclosed, open and passive bass units running at the same time but the sound in much better that I thought it would be. I was actually pretty shocked at how good it sounds. I expect to see some issues with the Bass setup once I start the REW review and I can start turrning the bass units on an off to see how things change.

 

If anyone is interested you are more than welcome to come by for a listen. I live outside Bangor Pa (Eastern PA between the Lehigh Valley and Stroudsburg Pa).  Would love to get another ear opinion. I am learning how to become an active listener. I have a ways to go but reading this and other boards has helped me immensly and I am very thankful for the input.

[OO1]

9 hours ago, Hilltoppa said:

 

I'l call Paducah Home Theatre tomorrow to see if they still have the K-402's. 

you can PM @Paducah Home Theater  via the PM feature , place your mouse over the user name and click   "Message ", on the bottom left hand corner -

[zeagan]

 

I'm not sure what you're running for crossover with the K510/de75 combo but the above image is why you're going to think they don't sound right, it's measurements from 1m of a k691 (de75p 8ohm with a slightly modified diaphragm from what I understand) on a k510 clone (probably identical to yours) *the orange line, red is a JBL 2446h compression driver on the same horn. The K510 is (essentially, sort of) a constant directivity horn and as such you start to drop off above 3kHz pretty steeply (note above that you're about -8dB from 3kHz to 4kHz and then some bigger drops further up the frequency range, it is the nature of these types of horn and the 402 will do the same thing. Consider that to make up for this in a passive network you are attenuating the hell out of everything below 4kHz and that is why most people using these horns for that wide of a frequency range are using active parametric equalizers and shelf filters. Note they also have a gaping hole between 10kHz and 13kHz which is very audible which PEQ filters can smooth out.

 

Here is some reading on constant directivity horns and why EQ is needed if you're into learning stuff.

I can tell you right now, they sound like hot garbage with no EQ and they sound fantastic with it, what crossover are you using when you try the k510/de75? I feel like this will answer a lot of questions on the minds of people in this thread that have truly enjoyed that set of driver and horn that don't understand why you don't. 

 

 

 

[Chief bonehead]

On 9/25/2021 at 2:52 PM, NBPK402 said:

Here it is...he had at least 6 a few days ago.

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Hmmmmm....

[MEH Synergy]

11 hours ago, Chief bonehead said:

Hmmmmm....

. 

[MEH Synergy]

. 

[Chief bonehead]

10 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said:

Stop it.  Let the man make a dollar and put klipsch on the map. It's a STRONG part of why this forum is what it is and why the brand continues to grow. 

Excuse me???? Stop what????

[MEH Synergy]

Nothing, disregard. Read into it wrong. 

[rockhound]

There is no replacement for displacement lol. Seriously there is no equal to the 402 in my opinion.

[charok]

is it wrong to want a k402 to replace my k510 clone?

if that was to happen would prefer before i build the k510 enclosure.

[OO1]

nope , but once you hear a pair , get ready to be hooked 

[charok]

12 minutes ago, RandyH said:

nope , but once you hear a pair , get ready to be hooked 

not sure the 402's would pass the wife test

still want them. could always tell her to go shopping for the day?

 

[NBPK402]

Should have made an agreement to you doing what you want in your music/video room...

I always have, and I can do what I want and she can do what she wants in her areas.

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[OO1]

12 minutes ago, charok said:

not sure the 402's would pass the wife test

still want them. could always tell her to go shopping for the day?

 

Women actually have quite a musical ear  , play a tune she likes a lot , and ,you might be surprised -

[PrestonTom]

The K-402s really do sound that good!

With a bit of imagination, wood, veneer and grille cloth, they can be disguised. 

[NBPK402]

You could always mod them to MEHs, and put them on end...less than 4' high. Drape some acoustically transparent material over them and put a heavy piece of artwork on top...and they have disappeared.

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[Hilltoppa]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:09 PM, zeagan said:

 

I'm not sure what you're running for crossover with the K510/de75 combo but the above image is why you're going to think they don't sound right, it's measurements from 1m of a k691 (de75p 8ohm with a slightly modified diaphragm from what I understand) on a k510 clone (probably identical to yours) *the orange line, red is a JBL 2446h compression driver on the same horn. The K510 is (essentially, sort of) a constant directivity horn and as such you start to drop off above 3kHz pretty steeply (note above that you're about -8dB from 3kHz to 4kHz and then some bigger drops further up the frequency range, it is the nature of these types of horn and the 402 will do the same thing. Consider that to make up for this in a passive network you are attenuating the hell out of everything below 4kHz and that is why most people using these horns for that wide of a frequency range are using active parametric equalizers and shelf filters. Note they also have a gaping hole between 10kHz and 13kHz which is very audible which PEQ filters can smooth out.

 

Here is some reading on constant directivity horns and why EQ is needed if you're into learning stuff.

I can tell you right now, they sound like hot garbage with no EQ and they sound fantastic with it, what crossover are you using when you try the k510/de75? I feel like this will answer a lot of questions on the minds of people in this thread that have truly enjoyed that set of driver and horn that don't understand why you don't. 

 

 

 

Much thanks - Especially for the reading material. Gives me something to chew on.

I am using the crossover that came in the KPT-904 box and L-Pads to balace the bass module to the horn. I had read that the horns run hot to play through the theatre screen.  This simple balancing made a big difference in sound.

 

Next step is to set up the REW to get some detailed data. I wanted to do it by ear first to try and train my listening but I think I've gone as far as I can with that approach.

 

Much thanks

Don

[Emile]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:33 AM, Marvel said:

Have you tried the JBL 2374 horn on top of the KPT-904 cabinets

Marvel, thanks   Had been looking for quite a while for a "smaller" K-402 (about 4 inches to big to fit in my setup). At 30x15x15" the JBL 2374 should fit.  

Unfortunately, I just bought some 2" exit JBL 2446H drivers ... and recall you CAN NOT use 2" drivers on a 1-1/2" horn  

 

Also looked for @Westcoastdrums's JBL 2432H's, but they are impossible to find. Any good substitutions?

 

Thanks, Emile

[MEH Synergy]

10 minutes ago, Emile said:

Also looked for @Westcoastdrums's JBL 2432H's, but they are impossible to find. Any good substitutions?

JBL seems to phase out certain drivers quickly. I was going to upgrade to the 4" driver with special aqua something or other coating that was recommended on the forum.   Went to buy, sold out, discontinued.... Bummer.