Topping PA5 is incredible.

[rmlowz]

I got one of the PA5s today. It is a KEEPER for sure! So clean, detailed and natural sounding without the harshness. Dead silent on the K402s. Pretty amazing actually for the money.

 

Rich

[henry4841]

With just a quick search the consensus that I found is the Topping uses a TPA 325X chip which was developed by Texas Instruments. I have two TPA-3255 amplifiers with linear power supplies. Great little cheap amplifiers for anyone wanting to hear what all the fuss is about with class D. Topping is trying hard to keep the chip a secret but some are digging into the circuit at diyaudio. Well worth the price for a taste of class D. Link is for those that like to dig into circuits.

 

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/topping-pa5-tpa325x-is-a-modification-worth-it.380233/

 

[rmlowz]

Thanks Henry 4841,

 

Good reading, I have a Fleawatt with TPA3116 chip that Derek Sanderson built me it is more tube like with his mods on the amp. I really like it also. It amazes me seeing the Fleawatt and the Topping PA5 in a rack with thousands of dollars of tube gear and I think I might be in the Class D camp. I really like the sound on the K402s

 

Rich

[snilsen13]

I use a PA5 with my Cornwalls and I even use a PA5 on my Avantgarde Duos. The only turn off for me is the price … too cheap to believe I’m doing justice to the speakers. Almost too small as well, but its big enough to support 2 pair of balanced cables. 
 

Even on the Duos they produce no audible background noise. 

 

One other caveat. If you leave these amps on in perpetuity, like for months, one channel starts making quiet “burps”.  Power cycling the amp takes care of that.  Maybe that’s fixed in the redesign. They might be over-crowding the components. I would like to have this amp in a bigger case with the circuitry more spaces out. 

By comparison, I have used PP (old Scott) and SET (2a3, 45, and more) amps. My favorite were point-to-point wired 45 SET monoblocks, but these PA5 amps hold their own against any of them. They also run more quietly and on a lot less energy. But no, not quite as amazing as a good pair of 45 SET monoblocks - they don’t quite transmit THAT level of detail, but for that you’ll pay 10x more. 

 

Sorry to jump back in with a bandwagon-like fanboy post, but I figure the experience of using these with the ultra efficient Duos could be useful.

[ClaudeJ1]

5 hours ago, snilsen13 said:

 

Even on the Duos they produce no audible background noise. 

 

One other caveat. If you leave these amps on in perpetuity, like for months, one channel starts making quiet “burps”.  Power cycling the amp takes care of that.  Maybe that’s fixed in the redesign. They might be over-crowding the components. I would like to have this amp in a bigger case with the circuitry more spaces out. 

By comparison, I have used PP (old Scott) and SET (2a3, 45, and more) amps. My favorite were point-to-point wired 45 SET monoblocks, but these PA5 amps hold their own against any of them. They also run more quietly and on a lot less energy. But no, not quite as amazing as a good pair of 45 SET monoblocks - they don’t quite transmit THAT level of detail, but for that you’ll pay 10x more. 

 

Sorry to jump back in with a bandwagon-like fanboy post, but I figure the experience of using these with the ultra efficient Duos could be useful.

I bought 3 of them. One spare and the other two in full time use on Edgarhorn Titan II's and in my full Atmos HT/2.2 stereo (at the couch of a button) upstairs with the Danley SH-50's. Yamaha YPAO room EQ on both. Best bang for buck amp EVER.

The guys that had trouble with them use too much power on INEFFICIENT, non-Klipsch speaker. But we know better!

[Flevoman]

Is there an audible difference between the PA3 and the PA5?
Or is the only difference the output power?

[Flevoman]

 

Curious to know how a class D amp can sound, I did some research and inquiries and the Tpa3255 board seemed like the best choice. I found a very affordable one on Amazon.

 

Fosi Audio TB10D 600Watt TPA3255 Mini Amplifier HiFi Stereo Class D Amplifier Integrated 2 Channel Digital Audio Receiver for Passive Home Speakers with Treble and Bass Control https://amzn.eu/d/0DF2Cst

 

I received it yesterday and tested it on the Lascala with my brother. We had been listening to a SET 300B for a while before trying this D class amp. It doesn't sound bad, especially considering its price and size, let me be clear about that!

But... If we judge the amplifier with an audiophile's perspective, it falls a bit short. The sound lacks body, has a slightly harsh tone, and isn't very musical.

I find it hard to believe that this would sound as good as a decent SS amp (I have no experience with SS amps).

 

Now, I'm not entirely sure if my initial impression of a D amp is accurate. Could it be that I bought a too inexpensive amplifier and the PA5 will sound better? Given the price difference, one might think so. However, on the other hand, there's nothing particularly exceptional in such an amplifier that could make a significant difference, in my opinion. It consists of a power supply and a board.

 

Does anyone have thoughts on this?

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, Flevoman said:

 

Curious to know how a class D amp can sound, I did some research and inquiries and the Tpa3255 board seemed like the best choice. I found a very affordable one on Amazon.

 

Fosi Audio TB10D 600Watt TPA3255 Mini Amplifier HiFi Stereo Class D Amplifier Integrated 2 Channel Digital Audio Receiver for Passive Home Speakers with Treble and Bass Control https://amzn.eu/d/0DF2Cst

 

I received it yesterday and tested it on the Lascala with my brother. We had been listening to a SET 300B for a while before trying this D class amp. It doesn't sound bad, especially considering its price and size, let me be clear about that!

But... If we judge the amplifier with an audiophile's perspective, it falls a bit short. The sound lacks body, has a slightly harsh tone, and isn't very musical.

I find it hard to believe that this would sound as good as a decent SS amp (I have no experience with SS amps).

 

Now, I'm not entirely sure if my initial impression of a D amp is accurate. Could it be that I bought a too inexpensive amplifier and the PA5 will sound better? Given the price difference, one might think so. However, on the other hand, there's nothing particularly exceptional in such an amplifier that could make a significant difference, in my opinion. It consists of a power supply and a board.

 

Does anyone have thoughts on this?

I'll give you my thoughts, since you asked. The TI 3255 Chip is an amazing device. Just how well it's implemented in lower wattage than the "max" rating makes the difference. Everyone is barking up the wrong tree about this. 

 

You "ahem" review reminds me of the You Tube video from a fauxtographer and his cute wife testing out all the 85mm lenses on the market, photographing a mannequin head. They then declared a Nikon 105 MM to be the winner. What an insult and a waste of time.

 

If you are all about all horns and big horns, like I am, you already know that big watts don't mean a thing to a Klipsch guy or gal.

 

Also, this is an old PA-5 thread, so why are you judging negatively an amp that your go "cheap" and not a PA-5?

 

Emotional testing without data, is just another opinion, especially with all the flowery word BS that comes from StereoPhool and Absulutely Soundless magazines whose reviewers listen to good MUSIC in crappy room.

 

Waste of time.

[Marvel]

6 hours ago, Flevoman said:

 

Does anyone have thoughts on this?

I haven't tried any of the Class D amps, but from what I've read,  is that the power supply you use can make a lot of difference in the quality of the audio.

 

My older son, Josh, is using some with an active crossover for his LA Scalas, and may have some insight.

 

@Invidiosulus

[82 Cornwalls]

7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

If you are all about all horns and big horns, like I am, you already know that big watts don't mean a thing to a Klipsch guy or gal.

 

Can you elaborate on this because I see a number of members posting about their megawatt amplifiers and how much better their Klipsch speakers sound with them.

[ClaudeJ1]

3 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

 

Can you elaborate on this because I see a number of members posting about their megawatt amplifiers and how much better their Klipsch speakers sound with them.

I spent a day in PWK's house. He never recommended more than 20 Watts for a Klipschorn and LaScala. He used a Crown D60 because of its LOW IM Distortion, not for the watts, which were usually 1/4 Watt per channel.

 

Those that say more power sounds better don't know what they are talking about with their opinions from Emotional Testing with NO DATA.

 

You want high Signal to Noise Ratio with horns and the PA-5 exceeds -120 db at 5W.  Look up the Audio Science Review.

 

The only people that had reliability issues with the amps pushed them too hard in inefficient speakers. I have 3 of them on my All Horn Systems and they are incredible. Best Bang for Buck

[82 Cornwalls]

@henry4841

 

See 2 posts above.

[Marvel]

4 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

 

Can you elaborate on this because I see a number of members posting about their megawatt amplifiers and how much better their Klipsch speakers sound with them.

Most of those are being used on Klipsch speakers with a direct radiating woofer.

 

I was using a Crown D45 (25wpc), powering MWMbass cabinets with 2 15 inch woofers in each and LaScala tops. It worked very well, but I have a Crown 300wpc that I used for a PA event and at the moment am using for my Heresy IIs. To say it is coasting along is not an exaggeration.

[Invidiosulus]

9 hours ago, Marvel said:

I haven't tried any of the Class D amps, but from what I've read,  is that the power supply you use can make a lot of difference in the quality of the audio.

 

My older son, Josh, is using some with an active crossover for his LA Scalas, and may have some insight.

 

@Invidiosulus

I have three of the Aiyima A07 amps.

I think they sound fine but I haven’t listened to them back to back with anything high end.

I think the bang for the buck in my setup is pretty high.

Preamp, active DSP, amps(x3) was less than $400 and it allows me to easily tune for a flat response and time alignment between the drivers.

 

Other than that I have no idea how the A07 compares to the Fosi TB10D.

I would tend to be wary of any cheaper device that has a built in high/low EQ on the front panel as it’s usually all but impossible to get them set completely neutral. 

[82 Cornwalls]

1 hour ago, Marvel said:

Most of those are being used on Klipsch speakers with a direct radiating woofer.

 

I understand that, but in a house at levels that won't cause hearing damage.......one claimed "Personally I tap out at about 115dbs usually for only a song and back to around 100-105 for some good jamming." 

I hope he was just joking.

Probably sounds about the same as 80 - 85 for someone that has tried to protect their hearing over the years.

[henry4841]

10 hours ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

@henry4841

 

See 2 posts above.

It is the design of an amplifier when used on high efficient horns that makes an amplifier great sounding and not the wasted power when used on our speakers built into many amps. As Nelson Pass says on his Firstwatt.com page,  “Who cares what an amplifier sounds like at 500 watts if it sounds like crap at one watt?” 

[henry4841]

And Firstwatt amplifiers are not tailored to just horn speakers but mostly used on much less efficient conventional cone speakers. I will assume all the mega watt fans on this forum could use a Firstwatt amplifier as a door stop along with all the excellent 6 watt SET tube amplifers as well. Get real guys. Do your own research and you will find engineers like Nelson know what they are talking about. It is not BS which is rampant on any social media forum.

 

How can the skeptics explain how horns filled auditoriums for decades with low wattage tube amplifiers before transistors and high power amplifiers came into existence in the 1970's? The fact is there is not a good amp made that you cannot use on our speakers for 90% of listeners. Forget the home theater guys, they are looking for effects. I am talking those that are serious about the quality of their music.

[henry4841]

We have strayed far from the original topic of this post. I have never heard the Topping TA-5 but my understanding is it has some type of TPA3255 board in it with a decent PS. I have two TPA3255 amplifiers I built with linear PS. One the original Texas Instruments evaluation board and another one of the Chinese designed ones. Both sound really really good at 1 watt for what they cost. 

 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/TPA3255EVM?qs=LuYMPh7GGMSrW5R3E5EiSw%3D%3D

 

Hook it up to a decent 7 amp or more 48V switching PS and you will have the best TPA 325# sound out there. Put everything is a cardboard box if you must. Or just buy the Topping PA5 but I can almost guarantee it will not have the Texas Instrument board but some type of Chinese clone. A TPA3255 is nothing more than the chip on the board that Texas Instruments makes that is supposed to be on all boards sold. That is unless the Chinese is making some kind of clone calling it a TPA3255 chip board. 

 

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/TPA3255TDDVRQ1?qs=vLWxofP3U2wwLYQ1tvMm9A%3D%3D

 

That is what supposed to be on all the boards. The data sheet gives the info for making an amplifier with the chip for an engineer to use.  

 

https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3255-q1.pdf?HQS=dis-mous-null-mousermode-dsf-pf-null-wwe&ts=1691410693485&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mouser.com%2F

[ClaudeJ1]

12 hours ago, Marvel said:

Most of those are being used on Klipsch speakers with a direct radiating woofer.

 

I was using a Crown D45 (25wpc), powering MWMbass cabinets with 2 15 inch woofers in each and LaScala tops. It worked very well, but I have a Crown 300wpc that I used for a PA event and at the moment am using for my Heresy IIs. To say it is coasting along is not an exaggeration.

Most direct radiator speakers (like a Factory Heresy) are 10-20 db LESS sensitive than an all horn system (like my Edgarhorns at 106-112). And I'm being generous here.

 

That being the case, when I had Khorns and built a power meter to keep track of power usage about 45 years ago. It was "stupid loud" when I hit 10 Watt peaks on my Khorns.

 

So the 10-20 db difference in sensitivity translates to Ten to One Hundred times more Peak Power requirement for the worst of direct radiators (the worst being my Carver Amazing Platinum speakers at 84 db/w).

 

So bottom line, the power requirements for smaller, cheaper speakers, (lower than a Heresy) is 100 to 1,000 Watts per channel to avoid Clipping and destroying Tweeters.

 

So quit wasting time bla bla bla about something that should be a know FACT concerning Klipsch speakers and Amazingly good Chip Amps and Discrete Class D (like Hypex, ICE, etc) taking over the world from tubes. 

 

I have owned them all and still do in over 50 years doing this in the world of EE's and Audiophiles.

[henry4841]

I agree that class D is the wave of the future Claude but what still turns me on is a good SET tube amplifier. Class D for me, notice I said me, lacks some soul compared to a SET amplifier. But for many, especially those that like hard rock and loud music, a class D is what is going to turn them on. As always music is subjective.