Amplification for Heresy IV's, how much is too much to spend?

[jimjimbo]

11 minutes ago, Invidiosulus said:

I would point somebody who had some money to spend.

https://www.audioclassics.com/

 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

8 hours ago, Invidiosulus said:

The HK-430 runs out of steam pretty quick at louder volumes with Heresys and all of that HK series could probably use a recapping at this point.

 

They are decent but absolutely not where I would point somebody who had some money to spend.

So what you're saying that he should have bought LaScalas?

I was only +1 on someone else's post. Also, he said that he was not looking for used. 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

On 12/13/2021 at 8:28 PM, Dave A said:

@Woofers and TweetersLike a guy with MCM 1900's in his house has any ears left, right?:D

Yeah, I was jamming pretty hard last night. The needles were bouncing all the way up to one watt. The tweeters sound great. 

[Tom05]

A wise man told me a long time ago that the speakers mean everything , and you have Heresy IV’s so I’d say your 99 percent there , maybe 99.9 percent  , your Yamaha is no slouch. But it’s still cool to buy new equipment 🤓

[DJEditor]

@rplace

TuneIn as well as other internet radio entities are fighting it out with Sirius and ESPN for MLB and other Pro Sports broadcast rights.  Most other alternatives to over the airwaves broadcasts charge a fee for their  programming.  I work in Broadcast TV and it is a nice to have the option to receive a FM broadcasts free of subscription fees just as it's nice to have an alternative to Cable TV with the simple use of an antenna for local TV reception.  

     I pay for cable and enjoy the selection however you never know when you might just need to tune in to your local broadcaster for weather or "other" emergencies. 

 

    This is why I'd like an "updated" receiver from Yamaha  as opposed to an integrated amp.  A standalone tuner and a streamer would also be an option, just more wires and space taken up. 

 

Hey, maybe I'm just a dinosaur !

[CWelsh]

Join the club!

 

[Tom05]

2 hours ago, DJEditor said:

TuneIn as well as other internet radio entities are fighting it out with Sirius and ESPN for MLB and other Pro Sports broadcast rights.  Most other alternatives to over the airwaves broadcasts charge a fee for their  programming.  I work in Broadcast TV and it is a nice to have the option to receive a FM broadcasts free of subscription fees just as it's nice to have an alternative to Cable TV with the simple use of an antenna for local TV reception.  

     I pay for cable and enjoy the selection however you never know when you might just need to tune in to your local broadcaster for weather or "other" emergencies. 

 

    This is why I'd like an "updated" receiver from Yamaha  as opposed to an integrated amp.  A standalone tuner and a streamer would also be an option, just more wires and space taken up. 

 

Hey, maybe I'm just a dinosaur !

I get it ,not a bad idea.🤓

[Islander]

When it comes to speakers, the better the signal you feed them, the better they sound.  Before everything arrived to let me bi-amp my La Scalas, I had a just-bought Yamaha MX-D1 dual-mono power amp sitting there.  Original price of $5,000 USD, 120 dB S/N, 500 watts per channel, etc.  For curiosity, I hooked it up to the surround Heresy IIs, and it was a revelation!  They sounded amazing, with a deep and detailed soundstage.

 

The moral is that it’s up to you as to how much money you want to spend.  More is better most of the time, but after a certain point it makes more sense to put the money toward better speakers.  I’d suggest $2,000 as an upper limit, and maybe a nice Yamaha Aventage receiver could be everything you want, with all the connectivity options we expect today, like HDMI, Wi-Fi, AirPlay, Net Radio, and so on, as well as really good sound.

 

Net Radio is great, allowing you to listen to stations around the world for free.  Right now, I’m listening to 4ZZZ from Brisbane, Australia, which has an amazing mix, and of course Radio Paradise, from Paradise, California has a wide variety of music, from 1965 to the present, and it’s nearly all really good, especially if you’re of a certain age.

[DJEditor]

No doubt, connectivity to internet radio and an app to use my iPhone as a remote are high on my list of wants.  Clean sound for my Heresy IV’s is a must too. The search for these things in one box under $3k continues. Are you listening Yamaha ?

[wetowne]

Well this ain't a one box solution but it checks  your other boxes and cost way under a grand. It sounds great with Heresy III and Forte I.

[Islander]

10 hours ago, DJEditor said:

No doubt, connectivity to internet radio and an app to use my iPhone as a remote are high on my list of wants.  Clean sound for my Heresy IV’s is a must too. The search for these things in one box under $3k continues. Are you listening Yamaha ?

 

What are you looking for that the current Yamaha receivers don’t have?  Have you checked out the new series with one big knob on the front?  My receiver is powering the surround left and right speakers, plus centre front and rear, while the MX-D1s are powering the main left and right speakers.  The RX-A2060 receiver is a 2016 model, and it has everything/does everything I need.  

 

It even has a speed-sensitive volume knob.  If you roll up the volume slowly, a single twist of the wrist will increase the volume in small increments, for a total of maybe 10 dB, while a quick twist of the wrist will raise or lower the volume by as much as 30 dB.  It’s kind of cool.

[JohnA]

On 12/11/2021 at 10:45 AM, Invidiosulus said:

 

Just curious, how high would you consider high-ish when it comes to damping factor?

 

100 to 200.  Switching from a SS amp with a 40 damping factor to one with 200 was a noticeable change very nearly obvious to a disinterested female.  😁

[Invidiosulus]

35 minutes ago, JohnA said:

 

100 to 200.  Switching from a SS amp with a 40 damping factor to one with 200 was a noticeable change very nearly obvious to a disinterested female.  😁

You don’t say.

 

A number of years ago I switched from an HK-430 on my H1’s to an NAD preamp into a little Alesis RA-100 power amp.

 

There was, I seem to remember, a noticeable difference.

 

The damping factor on the Alesis is listed at 200.

 

[DJEditor]

2 hours ago, Islander said:

 

What are you looking for that the current Yamaha receivers don’t have?  Have you checked out the new series with one big knob on the front?  My receiver is powering the surround left and right speakers, plus centre front and rear, while the MX-D1s are powering the main left and right speakers.  The RX-A2060 receiver is a 2016 model, and it has everything/does everything I need.  

 

It even has a speed-sensitive volume knob.  If you roll up the volume slowly, a single twist of the wrist will increase the volume in small increments, for a total of maybe 10 dB, while a quick twist of the wrist will raise or lower the volume by as much as 30 dB.  It’s kind of cool.

I’m sticking with a 2.1 stereo receiver for music only. TV is my business and a sound bar , no snickering now, gives me all I need from broadcast and cable channels. 

[mjcmt]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:06 AM, DJEditor said:

    I have Heresy IV's and have held off from upgrading my Yamaha R-N500 receiver.  How much do you think I should need to spend for a quality SS integrated before "The Law of Diminishing Returns" kicks in big time? 

     I've looked as the new Yamaha line and Schiit gear and wonder if $3K is about as much as one needs to spend to get the most out of the speakers amplification wise.  Room treatment is a whole other story.  Hey, I'd love a Pass Labs XA-25 but budget doesn't permit that at this time. The  Benchmark AHB2 would be high on my list too for that matter.  Would the Heresy's be up to the task ?

I heard the Forte IV w/ McIntosh Ma352 200wpc tube hybrid amp and the sound was jaw dropping. The MA252 is same amp w/ 100 wpc. I heard w/ new Marantz Model 30 and also very good but not as robust sounding. My dream is a MA5300 SS amp w/ Forte for convenience of DAC and no tubes.

[captainbeefheart]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:57 PM, willland said:

I would say 300 would be the start of "high-ish".  My Acurus amps have a spec'd damping factor of 500 which is pretty high.  They are sure fast and really thump the woofers.

 

On 12/11/2021 at 10:45 AM, Invidiosulus said:

Just curious, how high would you consider high-ish when it comes to damping factor?

 

The second you connect the amp to your speakers with speaker wire all that damping factor is useless and you're right back down to where everyone else is.

[Peter P.]

Since you like Yamaha products (As I do and own), I'd suggest you get a Yamaha A/V receiver such as the RX-V485. It has the same power as your current receiver.

 

Why an A/V receiver when you might only use it for audio? Because it has a subwoofer output, AND it has a configurable crossover for the main speakers, your Heresies. I sure wish they'd make integrated amps with main channel crossovers but right now it appears that's only available in super high end amps. I just bought a new Yamaha integrated amp with a subwoofer output, but it still feeds a full-range signal to my Heresies. Sure wish the amp had an adjustable high pass crossover...

 

I'm big on alleviating Heresies (which I own as well) from frequencies below their cutoff point. No sense in stressing them with frequencies they can't reproduce but might damage themA; leave the low stuff to your subwoofer.

 

As a bonus, this receiver is extremely affordable. As has been said above; price should not be your metric i.e., don't think spending more is better or at least don't think you need to spend near your limit to get quality.

[Invidiosulus]

35 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

 

The second you connect the amp to your speakers with speaker wire all that damping factor is useless and you're right back down to where everyone else is.

Glad to know it doesn’t make any difference.

[captainbeefheart]

1 hour ago, Invidiosulus said:

Glad to know it doesn’t make any difference.

 

I suppose I shouldn't make blanket statements. I should have said for an average speaker with average speaker wire length and gauge.

 

Ok so 3 meters of 14awg is about ~.0246 ohms

 

Klipsch Heresy will dip to ~4-5 ohms  at certain frequencies

 

4 / .0246 = 162

 

With this specific "scenario" you'll always tap out at a maximum DF of 162 no matter if the amp is advertised as having a DF of  200, 500, or 1000.

 

You can of course run your amplifier on a stand or rack directly next to the speaker as close to it's input terminals as possible and then you can actually achieve a higher DF. But is that best? I like to have a damping control because I have found "maximum" damping isn't always best. Makes sense, over damped systems will achieve 0 amplitude of transient slower than one that is critically damped. Finding that specific resistance value is much easier when you can adjust it.

 

 

[mjcmt]

9 hours ago, Peter P. said:

Since you like Yamaha products (As I do and own), I'd suggest you get a Yamaha A/V receiver such as the RX-V485. It has the same power as your current receiver.

I'm using a Yamaha RX-V691 90wpc AVR w/ Forte and while it is good my 60wpc Rega Mira3 is much better for a 2.0 or 2.1 system. I'd recommend and integrated amp instead of an AVR for stereo listening.