OO1 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 6 hours ago, Orbit said: Oh my . . . So this is what all the fuss was about. Congrats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 11 hours ago, Orbit said: Oh my . . . So this is what all the fuss was about. I do not have these dialed in. I don't have the entire signal chain clean either but I am floored. I gave the 2800 and another 300 for a Technics SL-1200MK2 with a Shure M44g cart and two thick 30ft Apature accu-flow cables. With speakons. Nicest guy I have ever met from a listing. He is tracking down two Plexi tops he had cut for them. I have no idea what I am doing I just know I want more! Thank you to everyone who nudged along this acquisition. I have a difficult time coming of my money. This feeling is like the first day of 60 deg weather after a long winter. Good deal on the Technics deck, as well as on the speakers. However, it deserves better than that M44 cartridge. As you may know, Shure has gotten out of the phono cartridge business, sadly, but with luck you might be able to find a Shure M97xE cartridge for your fine turntable. As well as at hi-fi shops, you can sometimes find M97s and their companion N97 styli at music stores or even DJ supply shops. That will make a huge improvement in the sound, and will likely extend the life of your records, since playing it produces much less record wear than the older cartridges, along with much better detail retrieval. As if that wasn’t enough, the M97xE stylus seems to ride at a different level in the record groove (that’s my hypothesis, at least) than most styli, with the result that it seems to miss many of the scratches that cause those annoying clicks and pops. It plays clearly, letting you hear into the music, but with a noticeably lower level of background noise. As for the Plexiglas tops, they’re well worth having, especially if you have people over for parties. You know that drinks have no place on top of speakers, but this doesn’t seem to be widely known, which can result in really long faces after a party, and no amount of “Sorry about your speaker, man.” will remove the new rings on your new-to-you speakers. Congrats, and happy listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I picked up an Ortofon 2M Red for my SL1200mkII, before Needle Doctor shut their doors. It's worked pretty well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I recommend a Amazon.com: Ortofon 2M Red Moving Magnet Cartridge : Musical Instruments. What serial number are they? We can tell you how old they are then. Some of those with that mid driver have noise from that plastic cover on them. Easy to fix though. Check the washer and tightness of the mid driver to horn. But they look great worth the money also. Not sure what you have for amp but 70s receivers seem to sound better on these. Welcome to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Pardon me for spending your money, but if I were going Ortofon 2M, I’d be looking at the Blue or the Bronze. The Red is said to be a competent cartridge, but it’s the entry-level model. The upscale models deserve a look, depending of course on your budget, but as I commented elsewhere in the Forum recently, tight adherence to budget numbers can hold you back from getting things that are really good, or are what you really want. If you have a steady income and are able to set some money aside into your hi-fi upgrading account (that’s something every hi-fi fan should have) every month, waiting a few months may enable you to increase the limits you have set for various items. Rather than upgrading a small step at a time, it’s actually cheaper and more fun to make fewer but larger leaps, resulting in fewer items to have to sell as you move past them and pull them out of your system. As well, when you upgrade, the improvements are much easier to spot, with much less chance of buyer’s remorse, like “What? I bought the next model up, but I can hardly hear the difference! Why did I even bother?” That’s not what you want to hear yourself saying, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 13 hours ago, Orbit said: Oh my . . . So this is what all the fuss was about. I do not have these dialed in. I don't have the entire signal chain clean either but I am floored. I gave the 2800 and another 300 for a Technics SL-1200MK2 with a Shure M44g cart and two thick 30ft Apature accu-flow cables. With speakons. Nicest guy I have ever met from a listing. He is tracking down two Plexi tops he had cut for them. I have no idea what I am doing I just know I want more! Thank you to everyone who nudged along this acquisition. I have a difficult time coming of my money. This feeling is like the first day of 60 deg weather after a long winter. It's always fun to hear someone's comments when they convert from being a non-heard, to a heard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Islander said: Good deal on the Technics deck, as well as on the speakers. However, it deserves better than that M44 cartridge. As you may know, Shure has gotten out of the phono cartridge business, sadly, but with luck you might be able to find a Shure M97xE cartridge for your fine turntable. As well as at hi-fi shops, you can sometimes find M97s and their companion N97 styli at music stores or even DJ supply shops. That will make a huge improvement in the sound, and will likely extend the life of your records, since playing it produces much less record wear than the older cartridges, along with much better detail retrieval. As if that wasn’t enough, the M97xE stylus seems to ride at a different level in the record groove (that’s my hypothesis, at least) than most styli, with the result that it seems to miss many of the scratches that cause those annoying clicks and pops. It plays clearly, letting you hear into the music, but with a noticeably lower level of background noise. As for the Plexiglas tops, they’re well worth having, especially if you have people over for parties. You know that drinks have no place on top of speakers, but this doesn’t seem to be widely known, which can result in really long faces after a party, and no amount of “Sorry about your speaker, man.” will remove the new rings on your new-to-you speakers. Congrats, and happy listening! I have a different take on the M44 and consider it a wonderful cart particularly for that table. Originally designed as a broadcast cartridge for radio dj’s it offered several different stylus options and was interchangeable with the M55. Of course like all the Shure line they are not made anymore but some very good aftermarket options are still available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Noises Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Big fan of the Audio Technica VM540ML here. Tracks like a freight train and is very accurate and revealing. Some don’t like that, though. I’ve been a happy AT user for over 20 years now. My second turntable has an Ortofon Blue, and I like that one, too, but still prefer the VM540. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassell Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 25 minutes ago, Desert Noises said: Big fan of the Audio Technica VM540ML here. Tracks like a freight train and is very accurate and revealing. Some don’t like that, though. I’ve been a happy AT user for over 20 years now. My second turntable has an Ortofon Blue, and I like that one, too, but still prefer the VM540. I couldn't be happier with my VM540ml. It increased my vinyl enjoyment tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 10 hours ago, Islander said: However, it deserves better than that M44 cartridge. I was going on a hunt for a replacement. I also will do the RCAs as one is intermittent and of low quality. Has anyone seen a clean conversion with female connecters? 8 hours ago, Coytee said: It's always fun to hear someone's comments when they convert from being a non-heard, to a heard. I have been eagerly awaiting the moment I get to show friends that are not musicians. I wonder if everyone gets it. The table came with a rough dust cover that is still functional. SN on the speakers are 8807927 and 8811760. They have AL cross overs. Everything appears to function currently. I will be looking for replacements before the ol caps start to smoke. I am running the SL-1200 into a Sansui G-3500. I am considering another turntable and power source for the La Scala. I would keep the SL and Sansui for my stereo egg chair Budget is not set in stone. I have another 2k set aside mentally and physically currently. Are these Chinese tube amps any good? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWOReilly Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 9:08 AM, svberger said: I have a different take on the M44 and consider it a wonderful cart particularly for that table. Originally designed as a broadcast cartridge for radio dj’s it offered several different stylus options and was interchangeable with the M55. Of course like all the Shure line they are not made anymore but some very good aftermarket options are still available. I bought an M44 a few years before Shure stopped making them. Now I’m annoyed that the original replacement stylii are so expensive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 17 minutes ago, CWOReilly said: I bought an M44 a few years before Shure stopped making them. Now I’m annoyed that the original replacement stylii are so expensive. Jico aftermarket is expensive, although probably as close as you'll get to the original sound. But the Pfanstiehl Swiss aren't terrible and can be had for less then $30. Certainly a reasonable substitute if you're looking for one and don't want to spend on the pricier options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWOReilly Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 30 minutes ago, svberger said: Jico aftermarket is expensive, although probably as close as you'll get to the original sound. But the Pfanstiehl Swiss aren't terrible and can be had for less then $30. Certainly a reasonable substitute if you're looking for one and don't want to spend on the pricier options. Thanks for the info. I have a feeling that I’ll probably just get something else and buy spares at the same time so as to not worry about them becoming unobtanium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbit Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 7:00 AM, Islander said: Pardon me for spending your money, but if I were going Ortofon 2M, I’d be looking at the Blue or the Bronze. The Red is said to be a competent cartridge, but it’s the entry-level model. The upscale models deserve a look, depending of course on your budget, but as I commented elsewhere in the Forum recently, tight adherence to budget numbers can hold you back from getting things that are really good, or are what you really want. If you have a steady income and are able to set some money aside into your hi-fi upgrading account (that’s something every hi-fi fan should have) every month, waiting a few months may enable you to increase the limits you have set for various items. Rather than upgrading a small step at a time, it’s actually cheaper and more fun to make fewer but larger leaps, resulting in fewer items to have to sell as you move past them and pull them out of your system. As well, when you upgrade, the improvements are much easier to spot, with much less chance of buyer’s remorse, like “What? I bought the next model up, but I can hardly hear the difference! Why did I even bother?” That’s not what you want to hear yourself saying, right? I understand that stance completely. I think I will get a few more reps in before I go for a substantial upgrade like that bronze. It has been 14 years since my last table and I would hate to damage something like that. Certainly will need a decoy when friends come over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 6:08 AM, svberger said: I have a different take on the M44 and consider it a wonderful cart particularly for that table. Originally designed as a broadcast cartridge for radio dj’s it offered several different stylus options and was interchangeable with the M55. Of course like all the Shure line they are not made anymore but some very good aftermarket options are still available. No disrespect to the M44. It’s made for a purpose and if radio DJs use it, it must be effective at it. To be honest, I’ve never heard an M44. The Shure cartridges that I’ve owned have been the M91, the M95ED, and currently the M97xE. The M97 is far better than the two older cartridges, both in its ability to retrieve detail, and at least as important, it doesn’t add noise to the record with every play, like they did. It also has a warm and pleasing sound. The reason that I recommended a different model from the M44 is that the M97xE is described by Shure as their top of the line audiophile cartridge. That would appear to make it the best choice for home listening. The previous top model was the V15 Type IV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svberger Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 37 minutes ago, Islander said: No disrespect to the M44. It’s made for a purpose and if radio DJs use it, it must be effective at it. To be honest, I’ve never heard an M44. The Shure cartridges that I’ve owned have been the M91, the M95ED, and currently the M97xE. The reason that I recommended a different model from the M44 is that the M97xE is described by Shure as their top of the line audiophile cartridge. That would appear to make it the best choice for home listening. The previous top model was the V15 Type IV. IMO of all the carts you listed, the 97xE was the weakest. The V15IV was a MUCH better cart, as pretty much all of the other V15 line. The 91, 95, also 75 and yes the 44/55, among others, are all outstanding Shure cartridges that can found reasonably easy, and sometimes for not that much. Original styli are gone, but as I indicated above excellent, albeit expensive, aftermarket's from Japan are available, and decent one's from Switzerland for much less also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I notice that everyone’s favourite cartridge in this discussion seems to be the one they own, myself no less than anyone else. The Shure V15 series got rave reviews for decades. Apparently, the only strike against it was that its cantilever was made of boron, which was found to be dangerous to handle, although it was mechanically ideal for the job. The V15 series seem to have been one of the few highly-regarded moving magnet cartridges, and the M97xE was its slightly less highly regarded successor. The new flagship sailed a bit less proudly than its predecessor, a rare thing in any field. In my experience with it, three things stood out: first, it sounded good, just like all the reviews claimed, although more expensive cartridges could be more revealing. Second, it seemed to sail over, under, or around scratches, making old noisy records sound less noisy. Since some of my old LPs were a bit scratched, this ability was a definite asset. Third, in the 2010-2015 era at least, new styli were simple to change and cost only $50CAD, a very definite asset. While I was as shocked as anyone to see the new prices (I did buy a pair of them for $75 a couple of years ago, before the prices became silly high), they’re still comparatively low. The affordability of official Shure styli means that the average M97 cartridge likely has a stylus in good condition, unlike some premium cartridges whose prices for a new stylus would suggest that most owners will run them as long as they can, which is neither great for your records nor your ears. Oddly enough, this reminds me of a certain motorcycle, the Honda CBR900RR. When it came out, it was celebrated for its light weight, nimble handling, and high power. However, it uses a slightly rare type of sparkplug, which was quite a bit more expensive than the standard types used by most other bikes. As a result, many of the bikes I’d meet were overdue for new plugs, which reduced their performance noticeably. My Yamaha FZ750 uses the less expensive standard type, so I happily swapped them out at the first sign of reduced performance. The bottom line was that my technically slower bike was often the faster bike when I met a rider on a CBR9 Fireblade. The Ortofon Bronze and Black cartridges in particular have very expensive styli, to me at least. While I’d love to have a Black, it might not be the first choice for a record library that has its share of scratches. As well, I wouldn’t be popping in a fresh stylus every few years, just in case. I’m probably making more of this than is absolutely necessary. Unlike many other things, cartridge performance is not obvious to the casual listener. As well, most owners won’t have any suitable gear on hand to measure and compare cartridge and stylus performance. It nearly all comes down to auditory memory, which can safely be called a soft science. As we sit in our listening rooms (or maybe in our offices/computer rooms), with music playing, not really in the background if you’re listening to that happy combo of a really great tune, well-recorded, playing through a really good system, in a fully treated and optimized room, can we really be sure that what we hear tonight is actually a bit better or worse than what we heard before the last time we changed something in the signal chain? Did we have a slightly congested nose or sinuses then or now? Were we tired or suffering even a mild headache either time? Here we are, discussing little plastic, wood, or metal objects smaller than our thumbs, whose business ends are tiny metal tubes with even tinier diamonds glued to the ends of them. Regardless of size or price, our toys are still fun. ’Nuff said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivi Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 9:54 AM, Orbit said: Oh my . . . So this is what all the fuss was about. I do not have these dialed in. I don't have the entire signal chain clean either but I am floored. I gave the 2800 and another 300 for a Technics SL-1200MK2 with a Shure M44g cart and two thick 30ft Apature accu-flow cables. With speakons. Nicest guy I have ever met from a listing. He is tracking down two Plexi tops he had cut for them. I have no idea what I am doing I just know I want more! Thank you to everyone who nudged along this acquisition. I have a difficult time coming of my money. This feeling is like the first day of 60 deg weather after a long winter. JFC I just spent like $1500 on two SL1200s here. Huge value! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 I miss the 1988 black pair I used to have. Those look just like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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