Klipsch Jubilee

[Schu]

3 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

I think I saw that statement somewhere, something to the effect that the new ported/horn loaded bass bin on the Jubilee doesn't have an association with PWK, is "all Roy," etc. That is actually incorrect. 

 

The history on this is quite clear. They were starting to finalize the Klipschorn Jubilee (PWK's name for it in 2001), and Roy began to show PWK the curves from his ported/horn loaded bass bin and PWK is apparently quite excited because it looked at though it was going to be an even better fit (less compromise?) PWK made the decision that they would go with the KHJ bass bin that he and Roy did together and get it to production, and then they would come out with a Klipschorn Jubilee II using the ported/horn loaded bin using Roy's patent. He wanted to launch the Klipsch Jubilee at a certain time. I think that is a common misconception because people are not aware of all of the things that went into that design, including everything that went into the AES article, which they revised for 3 or 4 years before approving for final publication.

Very interesting... thank you for that. I had thought that the ported bin wasn't started until after Paul's passing.

Thank you

[Schu]

...

[Travis In Austin]

3 hours ago, Schu said:

Very interesting... thank you for that. I had thought that the ported bin wasn't started until after Paul's passing.

Thank you

That's because we tend to associate products with when they see the light of day. Roy was working on the design and concepts in mid 90s, it took a couple of years to get the first patent which came about in about 1999. Which was right at about the same time as Paul and Roy were working on the Jubilee bass bin, building and curving prototypes, the AES article written, etc. My understanding is that the Jubilee KHJ bass bin was pretty far along (maybe approved by Paul) by the time the first patent on the vented horn was granted. According to interviews that Roy has given, PWK saw the curves on the vented horn and liked them, but they were bringing him to CES in Jan. of 2000 (that might be '01, the photos of him sitting next to Jube with wood horn on top). Whatever the reason was, PWK said they would go with the KHJ for the Klipschorn Jubilee, and would use the vented horn for the Klipschorn Jubilee II. 

 

Sadly, Mr. Klipsch was gone just two years later. 

 

I think it was well after that you started to see the vented horn design being implemented in Klipsch Professional products. Very easy to make the assumption that it wasn't around during PWK's work on the KHJ. I thought the same thing myself until I heard the interviews and discussions that Roy has given about that process. 

 

One of these days I hope we can do an oral history with Roy on all of this. That was sort of plan back in October, but we just didn't have the people with the video and production expertise at the time. 

 

Travis

[MMurg]

5 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

Curious if the new Jubilee bass bin would ever become available on its own as a subwoofer option or for other theater products? Seems as though it could be a nice home theater solution vs the much larger KPT-1802 that only goes down to 26hz compared to the 18hz of the new bin.

 

LOL.  I've been thinking the same thing over the past few days.  It would make a great horn-loaded sub option.  Package the bass bin with an external amp/crossover with the usual powered sub controls.

[jjptkd]

4 hours ago, Schu said:

Very interesting... thank you for that.

 

I've sent you a couple PM's not sure that you got them?

[jjptkd]

3 minutes ago, MMurg said:

LOL.  I've been thinking the same thing over the past few days.  It would make a great horn-loaded sub option.  

 

They'd probably have to sell them for 15k each considering the pair of Jubilees retail for $36k-- horns, drivers and crossovers can't cost more than $6k a pair / set. 

[babadono]

the HLS 1802 are available.

[jjptkd]

13 minutes ago, babadono said:

the HLS 1802 are available.

 

 Yeah but its 75" wide, 300lbs and its -3db point is 26hz compared to the Jub bin at 50" wide and -3db at 18hz, not sure the weight but similar height and depth. It would seem a Jub bass bin would be perfect for a Heritage home theater system.. 

[Schu]

1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

I've sent you a couple PM's not sure that you got them?

website is suffering from issues... I can not access my PMs right now, but I can see what you are asking... the answer is yes

[Chief bonehead]

8 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

Curious if the new Jubilee bass bin would ever become available on its own as a subwoofer option or for other theater products? Seems as though it could be a nice home theater solution vs the much larger KPT-1802 that only goes down to 26hz compared to the 18hz of the new bin.

An 1802 is measured different the consumer product. With room loading it will extend below 20 Hz. 

[MMurg]

2 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

 Yeah but its 75" wide, 300lbs and its -3db point is 26hz compared to the Jub bin at 50" wide and -3db at 18hz, not sure the weight but similar height and depth. It would seem a Jub bass bin would be perfect for a Heritage home theater system.. 

 

The new Jubilee bass bin is actually heavier at a hair over 400 lbs. because it's made of MDF.  I was told that needed to use MDF due to its better consistency/dimensional accuracy.

[Travis In Austin]

12 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

They'd probably have to sell them for 15k each considering the pair of Jubilees retail for $36k-- horns, drivers and crossovers can't cost more than $6k a pair / set. 

How much was the R&D? 

 

What is the value of the patents and which method should they use to amortize them?

[henry4841]

5 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

How much was the R&D? 

Engineers are not cheap. They have to be paid whether what they are working on works or not. Hench research of R&D. 

[jjptkd]

6 hours ago, Travis In Austin said:

How much was the R&D? 

 

What is the value of the patents and which method should they use to amortize them?

I understand all of this just pointing out that it may be tough to offer these bins at a price that is semi affordable on their own for use as a home subwoofer without under-cutting the value of the Jubilee. I honestly don't know how much the HLS-1802 sells for as a comparison or how it would compare head to head with the new Jub bin or what an appropriate price for the Jub bass bin would be if it were to be offered on its own without regard to the Jubilee. 

[Travis In Austin]

On 4/23/2022 at 7:08 AM, jjptkd said:

I understand all of this just pointing out that it may be tough to offer these bins at a price that is semi affordable on their own for use as a home subwoofer without under-cutting the value of the Jubilee. I honestly don't know how much the HLS-1802 sells for as a comparison or how it would compare head to head with the new Jub bin or what an appropriate price for the Jub bass bin would be if it were to be offered on its own without regard to the Jubilee. 

I don't think they would offer just the bass bin for theater products (which I assume you meant Pro-Cinema, I missed that part first go around and understand what you were saying) It's a 1/8 space speaker so that's going to be a big "no" for Cinema for starters, but you have to have big output. Roy already mentioned how an 1802 will tune and measure lower based on room loading because cinema is measured in 1/2 space (I think?)

 

Here are some of the specs from one of the leading professional cinema sound brands, what the speakers installed in a professional cinema need to be capable of producing:

 

2.2 Sound Pressure Level: 105 dB Each screen loudspeaker system and associated amplifiers must have a maximum output capability of 105 dB continuous sound pressure level (SPL) at the reference listening position (RLP), a point two-thirds of the distance to the rear wall of the auditorium in the middle of the seating area. Loudspeaker capability must be determined as described in Section 6. 

 

3 Screen Subwoofer

 

3.1 Sound Pressure Level: +10 dB (Compared to Center Loudspeaker) The Low-Frequency Effects channel subwoofer must have a flat response over the range of 31.5 to 120 Hz. When compared with a full-range screen channel, the subwoofer channel must be capable of producing +10 dB of in-band gain (for example, as viewed on a real-time analyzer).

 

These specs are similar to all professional cinema processing brands for top tier cinemas (THX, Dolby, etc.). A lots pro-cinema subs will go to 31.5,  (I think it can even be -3dB at 31.5 Hz). The problem is the subs have to measure 115 dB at the RLP (105 dB "+10 dB of in-band gain). Roy has discussed this before in classes, etc., in shoots outs, it typically takes (at least) 4 DR 18" to match one 18 in his vented horn sub.

 

For the theater operator, it's going to be much less expensive in terms of amplification, numbers of subs needed (1 vs. 4) etc. Do they price an 1802 slightly less than the 4 DR systems of competitors? I don't know. But it costs less when you factor all of that in to it, and it sounds better for all the reasons you already know (lower distortion, etc., etc.).

 

I don't think those Jubilee bass bins would have the necessary output except in the very smallest of theaters. 

 

 

[OO1]

Anyone have the specs of  the HLS 1502  ?

[Schu]

7 hours ago, RandyH said:

Anyone have the specs of  the HLS 1502  ?

I don't remember ever seeing one posted or if they were ever actually released since it wasn't an official klipsch offering.

[Marvel]

IIRC, the were very close to the same specs with just a little less efficiency.

[babadono]

8 minutes ago, Marvel said:

IIRC, the were very close to the same specs with just a little less efficiency.

I think you are correct, therefore they could not get as high a max SPL. But they dig just as deep.

Alas it is all moot, you can't buy one.

And they were just a tad smaller. couple inches this way and that.

[Marvel]

I know where at least two of them reside...