510 on top of the La Scala help dialing this in

[Coytee]

Compared to these other boneheads on the forum?  

 

I just keep my ears open and try to listen & file it away....so I'm higher on the scale of regurgitation than I am on technical skill.

 

 

[Heritage_Head]

1 minute ago, richieb said:

This is somewhat an orange vs tangerine comparison but my 396ll w 510/K691 combination pretty much lays waste to my stock LaScala mid/tweet top end. And I’m surprised to say as much as I love LS horn bass the 396’s with a moderately sized sealed sub is a force to be reckoned with. The 510/691 combo doesn’t put fear into the 402/Faital HP but it sounds really, really good. I’m pretty sure it’s superior to the stock  LS top end. 

That’s very helpful. Thank you.…. It’s been along time since I’ve heard of 510s… effortless, effortless effortless! 

[Heritage_Head]

3 minutes ago, Coytee said:

Compared to these other boneheads on the forum?  

 

I just keep my ears open and try to listen & file it away....so I'm higher on the scale of regurgitation than I am on technical skill.

 

 

Nothing wrong with being humble (which you clearly are being) i’m sure we’re all dummy’s compared to Roy lol..

[Heritage_Head]

Coyote when I read some of your posts, (I’m not even kidding) I have to go to Google…look up certain things that you say…read pages of what they mean, and then come back and continue reading. 

[Heritage_Head]

Which is fantastic obviously because I learn oodles of stuff… 
 

[Heritage_Head]

18 minutes ago, richieb said:

This is somewhat an orange vs tangerine comparison but my 396ll w 510/K691 combination pretty much lays waste to my stock LaScala mid/tweet top end. And I’m surprised to say as much as I love LS horn bass the 396’s with a moderately sized sealed sub is a force to be reckoned with. The 510/691 combo doesn’t put fear into the 402/Faital HP but it sounds really, really good. I’m pretty sure it’s superior to the stock  LS top end. 

Before I bought the La Scala’s I was looking hard at the 396s. I couldn’t find any used (kind of spendy brand new). They are that much better than La Scala’s you think huh? 

[Heritage_Head]

Would a 510 and a 69 go down to 400 hz? 

[MMurg]

(Waiting to see how long this mod thread survives before it disappears...)

 

Get the Celestion Axi2050 (the driver in the Heritage Jubilee) and go active.  You'll be glad you did.  You can get the driver from Parts Express: https://www.parts-express.com/Celestion-Axi2050-AxiPerodic-2-Wide-Bandwidth-Compression-Driver-4-Bolt-294-2142.  Correction, you can preorder it and wait for it to ship a few months later like I did.  🙂 

[Islander]

The 510/K-69-A set will go down to around 480 Hz easily, which is where the La Scala bass bin comes in and takes care of the bass part.  That’s how Roy set it up originally.  I’ve got a pair or 510/K-69-A sets with custom Plexiglas bases for sale.  The factory stands are meant to be screwed to the top of the speakers they’re used on.  If they’re not screwed on, they tip over onto their faces. For that reason, I designed some 3/4” thick Plexiglas bases, and had them produced at a specialty Plexiglas shop.  They look great!  The stock black metal brackets screw onto the Plexi bases and the combo is very stable.  

 

As well, you can turn them or place them anywhere on top of the La Scala cabinets, although I’d recommend placing them at the front, so that the time alignment created by the Dx-38 is preserved.  You can aim them in whichever direction you like, although PWK’s newsletter, The Dope From Hope, recommends aiming them at the opposite corners of the room.  Aiming them like that gives the widest possible sweet spot, with the stereo effect being produced in the largest area of the room.  Meanwhile, the much larger bass cabinets are not as critical in regards to where they’re aimed.  This means that they don’t have to be aimed at the same radical angle as the tweeters, so they can take up the least amount of floor space.

 

As Coytee says, once you have the pieces, it’s just a matter of connecting them and plugging the correct settings into the Dx.  There’s no need for any further tweaking, unless you want to chase the last possible 2% of sound quality,  I was happy with the original settings.  It was the first time for me to set a device like that, but once I got started and saw the logic of it, it took me only about 20 minutes or so.  Some guys use a computer program to do it, and they say it’s simpler, but that was too advanced for me.  Coytee knows easily twice as much as me, but as he says, it’s pretty straightforward.  Once you punch in the settings, you’re good to go.  If you update/upgrade years later, as I did, you just update the Dx38 settings.  Unlike with a passive crosssover, you don“t have to buy any new parts.

 

As for amplifiers, keep in mind that you just need 4 channels of high-quality sound.  That can come from 4 monoblocks, 2 stereo amps (the most popular choice) or one 4-channel amp.  If you already have a high-quality stereo power amp, which I had, you just need to get a second matching one.

 

Keep in mind that this is a high-end speaker set up.  Cheaping out in any way or with any component (like with lower end power amps) defeats the purpose of what you’re trying to do.  Also, using matching power amps simplifies things.  The gain for bass and treble is equal, so you have no matching issues, and the sound is consistent, from deepest bass to highest treble.

 

Almost forgot:  the Electro-Voice (E-V) Dx38 digital sound processor is a pro sound unit.  This means a couple of things.  First, that it’s a high-performance and heavy-duty unit, and second, that it uses a different signal voltage from home audio gear.  The simple solution to this is to add an ART CLEANBox Pro, which is widely available and costs only $90, plus the price of two short XLR cables.

 

That’s the basics.  Just ask if you need any of it clarified.

[Coytee]

5 hours ago, MMurg said:

(Waiting to see how long this mod thread survives before it disappears...)

  

🙂

Technically, the 510 atop a lascala is a Klipsch approved application... note the crossover parameters that Roy designed for it...

[The Dude]

11 hours ago, Coytee said:

If you want to pay shipping both ways, I have a 510 laying about... no driver attached.

I do as well, even have a B&C which eventually replaced the P. Audio pictured.  If you want to dabble, your welcome to them to try, could even make a smoking deal on sell if interested.  PM me for more details if so. 

[jjptkd]

11 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

Before I bought the La Scala’s I was looking hard at the 396s.

 

 I have the k510/ k-691 combo in my Chorus II's right now and they are a game changer, nothing I've heard in the "home" end of Klipsch speakers really compare. The 510 with the 2" exit driver seems to combine the best of the Tractrix horn with big, openness and the pointed detail and accuracy of the exponential horns. My favorite thing about this top end is how detailed and full they sound at very low volume, find myself perfectly happy listening at sub 70db most of the time. 

[Heritage_Head]

6 hours ago, Islander said:

The 510/K-69-A set will go down to around 480 Hz easily, which is where the La Scala bass bin comes in and takes care of the bass part.  That’s how Roy set it up originally.  I’ve got a pair or 510/K-69-A sets with custom Plexiglas bases for sale.  The factory stands are meant to be screwed to the top of the speakers they’re used on.  If they’re not screwed on, they tip over onto their faces. For that reason, I designed some 3/4” thick Plexiglas bases, and had them produced at a specialty Plexiglas shop.  They look great!  The stock black metal brackets screw onto the Plexi bases and the combo is very stable.  

 

As well, you can turn them or place them anywhere on top of the La Scala cabinets, although I’d recommend placing them at the front, so that the time alignment created by the Dx-38 is preserved.  You can aim them in whichever direction you like, although PWK’s newsletter, The Dope From Hope, recommends aiming them at the opposite corners of the room.  Aiming them like that gives the widest possible sweet spot, with the stereo effect being produced in the largest area of the room.  Meanwhile, the much larger bass cabinets are not as critical in regards to where they’re aimed.  This means that they don’t have to be aimed at the same radical angle as the tweeters, so they can take up the least amount of floor space.

 

As Coytee says, once you have the pieces, it’s just a matter of connecting them and plugging the correct settings into the Dx.  There’s no need for any further tweaking, unless you want to chase the last possible 2% of sound quality,  I was happy with the original settings.  It was the first time for me to set a device like that, but once I got started and saw the logic of it, it took me only about 20 minutes or so.  Some guys use a computer program to do it, and they say it’s simpler, but that was too advanced for me.  Coytee knows easily twice as much as me, but as he says, it’s pretty straightforward.  Once you punch in the settings, you’re good to go.  If you update/upgrade years later, as I did, you just update the Dx38 settings.  Unlike with a passive crosssover, you don“t have to buy any new parts.

 

As for amplifiers, keep in mind that you just need 4 channels of high-quality sound.  That can come from 4 monoblocks, 2 stereo amps (the most popular choice) or one 4-channel amp.  If you already have a high-quality stereo power amp, which I had, you just need to get a second matching one.

 

Keep in mind that this is a high-end speaker set up.  Cheaping out in any way or with any component (like with lower end power amps) defeats the purpose of what you’re trying to do.  Also, using matching power amps simplifies things.  The gain for bass and treble is equal, so you have no matching issues, and the sound is consistent, from deepest bass to highest treble.

 

Almost forgot:  the Electro-Voice (E-V) Dx38 digital sound processor is a pro sound unit.  This means a couple of things.  First, that it’s a high-performance and heavy-duty unit, and second, that it uses a different signal voltage from home audio gear.  The simple solution to this is to add an ART CLEANBox Pro, which is widely available and costs only $90, plus the price of two short XLR cables.

 

That’s the basics.  Just ask if you need any of it clarified.

Great info, and much appreciated post. If I follow the above post what would be all in cost approximately?

[Emile]

13 hours ago, Heritage_Head said:

I know this has been done

I have (tried) to mate K-510's to Forte's (w/DSP). Never got it right; the horns just blew the Forte's away, making them sound like cheap bookshelf speakers   A previous post mentioned good success with a Chorus. Never owned any LaScala's, so I cannot predict how well the K-510's would "mate" with them - but pretty sure it is a much better pairing than with Forte's  

 

BTW, had the 510's down to 500-550Hz, which I believe is about the minimum they'll take.

 

Also had K-510's on my KPT-904's crossed at the passive 904 xover of 850Hz. Sounded excellent, but wanted a "bigger" horn - just like you. Since I did NOT have room for 402's, I bought some JBL 2384 horns, with JBL 2451H drivers. Horn may be too big for LS's as it is 30" wide. Chopped mine down to about 25-1/2" making them fit (with a box) perfectly on the 27" wide KPT's. Don't think you can cut those JBL's further down (to match LS's) as one gets "into" the curvature. But ... the improvement over the 510's was drastic  

 

Good luck  

[richieb]

My findings and your statement on the “game changer” of 2” inch exit drivers ie K691/510 continues the theme of the dominance of Klipsch Professional to their consumer line. Along with openness, detail, accuracy I’ll add effortless - 

[Heritage_Head]

1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

 I have the k510/ k-691 combo in my Chorus II's right now and they are a game changer, nothing I've heard in the "home" end of Klipsch speakers really compare. The 510 with the 2" exit driver seems to combine the best of the Tractrix horn with big, openness and the pointed detail and accuracy of the exponential horns. My favorite thing about this top end is how detailed and full they sound at very low volume, find myself perfectly happy listening at sub 70db most of the time. 

Do you run active crossover? How do you hook it up to your Chorus (The wiring and everything I mean)? 

[Heritage_Head]

5 minutes ago, richieb said:

My findings and your statement on the “game changer” of 2” inch exit drivers ie K691/510 continues the theme of the dominance of Klipsch Professional to their consumer line. Along with openness, detail, accuracy I’ll add effortless - 

We’ll put… totally agree! There is a ignorance is bliss factor though I think…..not to many people ever experienced pro line in their house. So it’s hard to miss it if you never had it.

[Heritage_Head]

6 minutes ago, Emile said:

I have (tried) to mate K-510's to Forte's (w/DSP). Never got it right; the horns just blew the Forte's away, making them sound like cheap bookshelf speakers   A previous post mentioned good success with a Chorus. Never owned any LaScala's, so I cannot predict how well the K-510's would "mate" with them - but pretty sure it is a much better pairing than with Forte's  

 

BTW, had the 510's down to 500-550Hz, which I believe is about the minimum they'll take.

 

Also had K-510's on my KPT-904's crossed at the passive 904 xover of 850Hz. Sounded excellent, but wanted a "bigger" horn - just like you. Since I did NOT have room for 402's, I bought some JBL 2384 horns, with JBL 2451H drivers. Horn may be too big for LS's as it is 30" wide. Chopped mine down to about 25-1/2" making them fit (with a box) perfectly on the 27" wide KPT's. Don't think you can cut those JBL's further down (to match LS's) as one gets "into" the curvature. But ... the improvement over the 510's was drastic  

 

Good luck  

Wow you have done a lot since we talked back when you got your 904s. If it’s not to much trouble you should shoot me a PM picture of your new set up.

[Coytee]

7 hours ago, Islander said:

 I’ve got a pair or 510/K-69-A sets with custom Plexiglas bases for sale.  The factory stands are meant to be screwed to the top of the speakers they’re used on.  If they’re not screwed on, they tip over onto their faces. For that reason, I designed some 3/4” thick Plexiglas bases, and had them produced at a specialty Plexiglas shop.  

 

C'mon man....don't be modest....

[Coytee]

13 minutes ago, richieb said:

I’ll add effortless - 

 

Did you say effortless?

 

Can I get an Amen!