Lascala cabinet resonance

[Troll]

27 minutes ago, Schu said:

 

This is your multi source bass when summed correctly @63hz... Placed within a 1/4 wave length of each other.

Low frequencies are Omni-Directional

 

 

 

This is your multi source bass, ON CRACK, when they are not summed and placed in a 'STEREO' layout @63Hz... you tell me which one should sound better.

 

 

Good thing I don’t listen to the same tone all day long and live in the valleys.  But if you watch the above videos on engineering music you’ll understand that modern engineering takes advantage of stereo bass and accounts for you mono heads.

 

The Chris Isaak example and others I have yet to check may be artifacts and expertise of the mix engineers either taking into account this complexity of deployment or not.  
 

If I was a mix engineer I’d write some code to scan through thousands of tracks, identify the troublemakers, and send a signal to an intelligent dac to handle it, or perhaps I’d just fix it in the source.  Spotify for example already does this for “loudness”.  It would be easy enough to do programmatically for old tracks that violate stereo bass principles.  
 

However so far it’s sounding pretty clear that most speakers can’t resolve this mix anomaly in an intelligible enough waveform while the AL5 can.  Therefore the cost/benefit analysis is not making any effort worth it.  I bet it can be heard in JBL though. 

[KT88]

Somehow I've lost the plot in this thread. But no offence, I don't want to bother anyone.

[babadono]

20 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Somehow I've lost the plot in this thread

Hmmmm...I wonder why?

[Marvel]

8 hours ago, Stephen Buck said:

Im thinking this could be in the realm of the stereo bass arguments you will see everywhere.  For example, one site says “As a general rule of thumb, it’s considered common practice to sum anything below 200hz to mono.”

I thought the bass was summed to mono for vinyl production/release, so the stylus wouldn't jump out of the groove from the extreme movement.

 

I know everyone wants to let go of this, perhaps a new thread could be started for THIS topic.

[Schu]

23 hours ago, Stephen Buck said:

Good thing I don’t listen to the same tone all day long and live in the valleys.  But if you watch the above videos on engineering music you’ll understand that modern engineering takes advantage of stereo bass and accounts for you mono heads.

 

What are the 'Advantages' of a 'Stereo' bass?

 

Bass and low frequencies are not directional and the 'snap shot' of the output and phase issues I posted are indeed of one frequency... not ONLY indicative of One frequency. they are a snap shot after all... But I would have thought that would be apparent.

 

comb filtering, phase issues don't change or reduce with frequency, they still occur... what changes is the shape of the interference patterns... but they are still there

[Troll]

3 minutes ago, Schu said:

 

What are the 'Advantages' of a 'Stereo' bass?

 

Bass and low frequencies are not directional and the 'snap shot' of the output and phase issues I posted are indeed of one frequency... not ONLY indicative of One frequency. they are a snap shot after all... But I would have thought that would be apparent.

 

comb filtering, phase issues don't change or reduce with frequency, they still occur... what changes is the shape of the interference patterns... but they are still there

I think if you take the time to comprehend the two videos posted above where actual mix engineers talk about it and you can hear it for yourself then you might understand. 
 

I do understand comb filtering in a large or open air venue but in the average living room with fast reflections it’s not material. 
 

Anyway give them a watch and respond as if you learned something. 

[Shakeydeal]

Quote

Anyway give them a watch and respond as if you learned something. 

 

You certainly are full of yourself...

[Troll]

It’s not a frequency it’s the arrival time of the same frequency from two locations that can either amplify or cancel.  The mono bass guys fell into a religion they don’t understand and didn’t bother consulting the mix engineers. 
 

When you play with frequency and timing you can sweep the comb filter for aural fun, you can eliminate it through delay, it’s part of what makes stereo and multi-channel mixing fun.  Otherwise everyone would just have single speakers.  The comb is part and parcel to stereo imaging. 
 

No I’m not full of myself for doing fresh work compared to copy pasting old work or others work. I’m just trying and hoping others will too.   Anyone else tried the songs?

 

[KT88]

I'm sorry, but I see a lot of your posts @Stephen Buckas confusing stuff. In some places what you say is debatable (in my view), but in other places you contradict yourself. I'll make a bet that anyone who posts so much in such a short space of time, even without waiting for replies, is usually out again faster than you might think. Not that others do this, you do it by yourself. I appreciate your posts but I have the impression that you post so much that it's impossible to reply because five new posts are being fired off by you in the meantime. 
This leads me to my real question: .... Do you want to be part of this community or do you want to burn off a quick firework and then do the same thing somewhere else...without developing your skills?

If you are not able to wait for a discussion/reaction to your posts but keep on firing with more and more posts, then I have to assume that you don't really care about the answers of the members of this forum. The point is that a forum like this is due to its (thank God)  openness about exchange, sharing experiences and communication, but at the same time it is always a platform for self-promoters for a short time due to their very short half-life. Perhaps you would like to think about this? I am always open to surprises and new impressions. It would be super cool if you only had one start issue. Why? Because a good part of your posts are very relevant and interesting in my view.

 

[Deang]

4 hours ago, Stephen Buck said:

 … it’s the arrival time of the same frequency from two locations that can either amplify or cancel.  

How can it amplify (sum). I thought it was out of phase wave cancellation? That’s why the response looks like a comb. I don’t see how this could ever be a good thing. 

[Troll]

I’ve a little crow to eat.  When I reported I was able to reproduce the irritation of Big Blue Sky :37, I wasn’t running a flat PEQ.  
 

As soon as I ensured I was running flat/straight, and ensured the sub was off, nothing was there that I detected to be a warble or phase type issue, or unlistenable at 80-100dB.  
 

I also tried the suggested 

PEQ of 148Hz, Q:8, -7db

at Yamaha’s 140.3 and alternately 148.7 and didn’t notice anything different than flat, though I was using my ears not a meter.  
 

Normally with the kind of music and movies  I like to listen to I run 

PEQ 15.6Hz, Q:0.5, +6

PEQ 66Hz, Q:0.5, +6

all around.  

That curve does raise 148Hz about +4-5 db and makes for great husky male voices like Santa on Violent Night.  So at a loud volume the Isaac Warble (lack of a better word) comes out loud and clear esp with subwoofer, and yes it’s removed if only one channel driven.  
 

Now, I’m not a set the volume and leave it kind of guy, and plenty of sources have irritating passages regardless of EQ settings  so I just turn them down, skip ahead or as OP suggests, skip the entire song.  I did that constantly with vinyl, 8-track, tape, and CD ever since I was a kid.  Thank goodness it kept getting easier!  Plenty of reasons to find songs and recordings unlistenable.  My current scream is Morgan Wallen Thinkin’ Bout Me because it’s a stupid ear worm like achy breaky heart was.   Don’t suffer people it’s just entertainment!

 

The horns on AL5 can definitely envelope you at center stage and either you call that tunneling or whatever and you like it or you don’t.  I usually sit to one side unless I’m really trying to take in something.  I love how they will throw and image even if not in the sweet spot.  I never feel like I’m listening to one speaker which happens a lot with other speakers when you’re off to the side.  If you don’t like that effect you can over-cross them.   
 

Anyway, just sharing for what it’s worth!  

[Woofers and Tweeters]

A lot of people have tried lots of things to fix this. 
 

 

[Troll]

21 minutes ago, KT88 said:

I'm sorry, but I see a lot of your posts @Stephen Buckas confusing stuff. In some places what you say is debatable (in my view), but in other places you contradict yourself. I'll make a bet that anyone who posts so much in such a short space of time, even without waiting for replies, is usually out again faster than you might think. Not that others do this, you do it by yourself. I appreciate your posts but I have the impression that you post so much that it's impossible to reply because five new posts are being fired off by you in the meantime. 
This leads me to my real question: .... Do you want to be part of this community or do you want to burn off a quick firework and then do the same thing somewhere else...without developing your skills?

If you are not able to wait for a discussion/reaction to your posts but keep on firing with more and more posts, then I have to assume that you don't really care about the answers of the members of this forum. The point is that a forum like this is due to its (thank God)  openness about exchange, sharing experiences and communication, but at the same time it is always a platform for self-promoters for a short time due to their very short half-life. Perhaps you would like to think about this? I am always open to surprises and new impressions. It would be super cool if you only had one start issue. Why? Because a good part of your posts are very relevant and interesting in my view.

 

Sorry I post as I think, since sometimes I keep thinking about something and reading/watching from other sources after I post the last comment.  Not trying to self-promote I have nothing to sell. But I’m also not about to get corralled by old-timers.  I’m a live and let live guy.  If my pace or wording bothers you just move on.  Yes I will move on too.  I’m not one to yell at the tv or newspaper.  I just change the channel or read something else.  Community is in-person.  It’s a canard to think online is really community.  But it’s great for information sharing.  If I ever meet any of you and remember your fake handle online then I might show some regard and defer.  However my oldest friends know I say the darnedest things and they like me for it.  Let’s not try to control each other.  That’s the beginning of real community.  Cheers. 

[Troll]

20 minutes ago, Deang said:

How can it amplify (sum). I thought it was out of phase wave cancellation? That’s why the response looks like a comb. I don’t see how this could ever be a good thing. 

That’s the way waves work.  You can test it with water.  It’s what you’d expect, two speakers play louder than one.  https://www.khanacademy.org/test-prep/mcat/physical-processes/light-and-electromagnetic-radiation-questions/v/wave-interference

[Deang]

Yup, I’m being a dummy. I was just thinking about the ones that cancel out. 

[Marvel]

48 minutes ago, Stephen Buck said:

Community is in-person.  It’s a canard to think online is really community.  But it’s great for information sharing.  If I ever meet any of you and remember your fake handle online then I might show some regard and defer.  However my oldest friends know I say the darnedest things and they like me for it.  Let’s not try to control each other.  That’s the beginning of real community.  Cheers. 

Actually, a lot of us ARE community. Traveled across country to meet one another, helped one another, helped move equipment and supported one another when ill.

 

So some of us are old timers who have been on here for years and have good friends here. We know each others families, whose living and who is passing away.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[Troll]

57 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

A lot of people have tried lots of things to fix this. 
 

 

On used original commercial units redeployed to home use.
 

Commercial plywood LaScalas had commercial woofers with higher SPLs and were often deployed in harsh environments, auditoriums with high temperature and humidity swings over many years. It’s fantastic people find them so good for reuse.  
 

Before you go screw up a pair of AL5s which are MDF/HDF and therefore have different resonance characteristics, I’d consider your SPLs and real world use and actual audible measurements from listening position.  Should be easily done with test tone and mic, to pick up actual signal mismatch and with someone alternately pressing on sidewall to dampen to see if errant signal reduces or goes away.  Probably REW can do it. 

[Troll]

Just now, Marvel said:

Actually, a lot of us ARE community. Traveled across country to meet one another, helped one another, helped move equipment and supported one another when ill.

 

So some of us are old timers who have been on here for years and have good friends here. We know each others families, whose living and who is passing away.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

That’s wonderful. 

[Tom05]

Deleted 

On 1/10/2024 at 10:47 AM, Stephen Buck said:

[Don A. Childs]

I've owned the Lascala II for about five years. Recently I placed Isoacoustic pucks between the HF and LF bins, attempting to experiment with isolation benefits. The improvement in clarity is stunning. Apparently the LF bin being only isolated from the top by those 4 rubber feet weren't accomplishing much. I think the LF bin was beating the heck out of the upper bin so much so it was drastically effecting the sound quality. I had a theory that if isolating stuff helped then...well...you got the idea. At first I placed "purple" cushion pieces between but thats when I decided to do the Iso-puck 76's. Surely I'm not the first to discover this Lascala tweak. Forgive me if I'm rehashing a well-known item. The improvement is so dramatic that I couldn't keep this to myself! Lascala II owners need to try this. Cheap and effective. I'll check back to see if anyone tries this or knows about this.