Cornwall IV - to go SET or Class A?

[aperfectcircle]

Seeking thoughts on where to next amplifier wise, to power a pair of Cornwall IV.  Previously had a PrimaLuna Dialogue HP integrated (running new issue Tung-Sol KT120s and Mullard 12AU7s after various prior combos from several years of rolling). 

 

Moved from NZ to Vietnam, so (maybe foolishly) decided to simplify and sold the PL amp and am now left with a wee Bluesound PowerNode (the latest model) doing amp duties in an apartment.  Due credit to the Bluesound; it’s doing a marvellous job most of the time (it always operated as the main amp for daily TV and music with the tubes being swapped in for a serious listening session) but its lack of inputs means my lovely Wand turntable and large vinyl collection is gathering dust in a spare room.  So it’s time for a new bad boy to join the club. 

 

The intent was always to get a new amp once settled, but now I’m unsure which direction to go.  I’m currently thinking of two broad options:

 

1 - 300B

 

I’d love to get a nice SET amp and have a lust for the legendary 300B, which I’ve never heard.  The PL was my first and only foray into the world of tubes (bar the very nice Line Magnetic LP33 phono) and I loved the balance of deep, thick and controlled bass with luscious mids that the PL was delivering.  

 

I’m considering dipping my toes in with a Willsenton R300, which is inexpensive (notwithstanding the tube rolling that will no doubt follow) and seems to have some really good reviews.  The other, more pricey, option is a Cary Audio 300SEI.

 

2 - Class A (ideally) SS

 

Whilst myself and the dog have largely adapted to the humidity and heat of Saigon (we seem to have averaged 33-34 every day for 5 months) I’m wondering whether solid state may be a better option in this environment.  I’d love to get a Luxman 550/590 AXII while they’re still around, and have a list of various SS amps that are also good options from McIntosh, Accuphase and a few others.  

 

Living on the 31st floor is quite a change from the house on section, so my ability to crank the sound is rather more limited (though the walls are solid concrete, including all internal walls, so it’s a lot more flexible than other apartments I’ve experienced).  That said, since getting the Cornwall (coming from Forte III) I’ve found my listening volume has come down as the sound from these is just so bloody clear and balanced at even low volumes I don’t feel the need to crank it until the vodka intake has surpassed a certain level.  I like my bass, but I’ll take that super clean drum hit and reverb over bloated big thunderous bass.

 

Thoughts and suggestions?  Music wise it’s anything from jazz to K-pop here, but the realism, dynamics, vocals and cohesiveness is what matters most.  Will a good 300B be able to control those big 15” woofers and give enough oomph or am I better off looking at a nice class A solid state?

[henry4841]

SET tube amps are class A. Nature of SET. Class A SS amps run hot but both SS class A and SET are the most linear form of amplification. The audio signal is not manipulated in any way. 

[Marvel]

15 minutes ago, henry4841 said:

SET tube amps are class A

You beat me to it, Henry.

 

I powered my JBL 4311s with 2A3 monoblocks, and still was ok with the power most of the time. IIRC, the JBLs are only 89db sensitivity. The Cornwalls should be pretty good with a 300B amp.

[Schu]

there is a lot of good stuff going on in Vietnam... when I was looking for some Jupiter cap's a few years ago (after they stopped making them) I found some in Vietnam. they came with zero issues.

 

My choice would be for a Tube of some kind... a 45, 2A3 or 300 is good.

 

[82 Cornwalls]

2 hours ago, aperfectcircle said:

1 - 300B

I’m considering dipping my toes in with a Willsenton R300, which is inexpensive (notwithstanding the tube rolling that will no doubt follow) and seems to have some really good reviews.  

 

And at least one really bad review with measurements.

[OO1]

  the R300 has 1 great review with 2 different klipsch speakers  

 

 https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2022/10/08/willsenton-r300-tube-integrated-amp-review/

[KT88]

Personally, I take a technical approach to choosing an amp before I listen to its sound. By that I mean whether everything fits together really well electrically. I don't know the devices you describe from my own experience. But I briefly googled your Line Magnetic 33, and the output impedance of 10K ohms limits the number of usable amps somewhat. Another point, I have absolutely no idea to what extent these 300B amps really have a pre amp, as was the case with your Prima Luna, it had a real pre amp section. I don't want to talk these mentioned 300B amps down, I even do not know the circuits but you should be vigilant. There are plenty of tube amps with a volume pot and a selector switch that don't actually have a pre amp but only control the gain at the power amp input. I can only speak for myself personally. I am absolutely delighted with the reviews I have read about the Luxmann 550 AXII. The advantage is that it is a really well thought-out and sophisticated device that includes a real preamp. In the tests of the Line Magnetic 33 I read that it cannot drive a power amplifier directly to highest satisfaction. It needs a preamp or a real integrated amp to unfold its sonic splendour. And what would particularly appeal to me is that the Luxmann itself has a highly praised MC and MM phono input. I wouldn't shy away from comparing the two, Luxmann vs. Line Magnetic as you get the MC input „for free“.
I'm perhaps a little biased because after 30 years with tubes, which I really enjoyed, I've now rediscovered SS. I had vintage Leak Stereo 20, Quad II, Audion 300B Silvernight power amps with EAR 864, and the last 23 years Mcintosh C22 CE with MC275 and MC2102. Now I have restored old vintage Quad 606 myself together with a Quad 34 Pre amp and EAR MC4 SUT. Don't laugh, the Quad gear is great, both with my vintage LaScala and my underground Jubilees. A bit like class A feeling due to the current dumping circuit. I love to enjoy my music without tube wear and tear and without tube rolling. If I were you, I would choose the Luxmann...also because then you don't have to experience any surprises with incorrect impedances, plus your CW4s may have high sensitivity, but they certainly appreciate the better control that the Luxmann offers.

[pnort]

If you can solder and assemble, also take a look at Elekit amps 8600S and 8900. both are 300B. Reviews in Stereophile--search for Elekit.

[Shakeydeal]

Since your listening level is on the low side, you are a perfect candidate for a 300B amp. Keep in mind, all are not created equal. I don’t think I’d go for a cheap SET amp. When it comes to low watt amps, the power supply and driver stage is crucial. More so than moderate to high powered tube amps. And this is the first place where corners are cut. Not trying to scare you away, just making you aware.

[82 Cornwalls]

16 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Since your listening level is on the low side, you are a perfect candidate for a 300B amp. Keep in mind, all are not created equal. I don’t think I’d go for a cheap SET amp. When it comes to low watt amps, the power supply and driver stage is crucial. More so than moderate to high powered tube amps. And this is the first place where corners are cut. Not trying to scare you away, just making you aware.

 

+1

Good OPTs are very important also.

[Shakeydeal]

28 minutes ago, 83 LSIs said:

 

+1

Good OPTs are very important also.

Yes indeed. Good iron for sure.

[Idontknow]

So far the Elekit 300b is the most amazing 300 I've heard with the Heritage series. It's silky smooth, great bass and open sounding. This one had the Lundahl transformers which are the finest. I did a brief review of it here but spent some time with it on loan from a friend. 

 

[Flevoman]

I've owned the R300 myself, paired with the Cornwall 4 at the time. While I find the 300B SET to be a nice match with the CW4, I personally wouldn't go for the R300. I did follow the internet hype back then, but every other 300B SET I compared with the R300 actually sounded better. My advice is to go for some better 300B SET.

[aperfectcircle]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:35 AM, Shakeydeal said:

Since your listening level is on the low side, you are a perfect candidate for a 300B amp. Keep in mind, all are not created equal. I don’t think I’d go for a cheap SET amp. When it comes to low watt amps, the power supply and driver stage is crucial. More so than moderate to high powered tube amps. And this is the first place where corners are cut. Not trying to scare you away, just making you aware.

cheers.  Yes, going cheap may not be the best idea.  Of course I can sell and upgrade, but I’m usually the type to just go all out in the first instance.  I’m sure the Willsenton is a decent piece of kit but the Cary is likely going to be a safer and better investment.

[aperfectcircle]

17 hours ago, Idontknow said:

So far the Elekit 300b is the most amazing 300 I've heard with the Heritage series. It's silky smooth, great bass and open sounding. This one had the Lundahl transformers which are the finest. I did a brief review of it here but spent some time with it on loan from a friend. 

 

Thanks!  I shall have a further look into this

[aperfectcircle]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:33 AM, KT88 said:

Personally, I take a technical approach to choosing an amp before I listen to its sound. By that I mean whether everything fits together really well electrically. I don't know the devices you describe from my own experience. But I briefly googled your Line Magnetic 33, and the output impedance of 10K ohms limits the number of usable amps somewhat. Another point, I have absolutely no idea to what extent these 300B amps really have a pre amp, as was the case with your Prima Luna, it had a real pre amp section. I don't want to talk these mentioned 300B amps down, I even do not know the circuits but you should be vigilant. There are plenty of tube amps with a volume pot and a selector switch that don't actually have a pre amp but only control the gain at the power amp input. I can only speak for myself personally. I am absolutely delighted with the reviews I have read about the Luxmann 550 AXII. The advantage is that it is a really well thought-out and sophisticated device that includes a real preamp. In the tests of the Line Magnetic 33 I read that it cannot drive a power amplifier directly to highest satisfaction. It needs a preamp or a real integrated amp to unfold its sonic splendour. And what would particularly appeal to me is that the Luxmann itself has a highly praised MC and MM phono input. I wouldn't shy away from comparing the two, Luxmann vs. Line Magnetic as you get the MC input „for free“.
I'm perhaps a little biased because after 30 years with tubes, which I really enjoyed, I've now rediscovered SS. I had vintage Leak Stereo 20, Quad II, Audion 300B Silvernight power amps with EAR 864, and the last 23 years Mcintosh C22 CE with MC275 and MC2102. Now I have restored old vintage Quad 606 myself together with a Quad 34 Pre amp and EAR MC4 SUT. Don't laugh, the Quad gear is great, both with my vintage LaScala and my underground Jubilees. A bit like class A feeling due to the current dumping circuit. I love to enjoy my music without tube wear and tear and without tube rolling. If I were you, I would choose the Luxmann...also because then you don't have to experience any surprises with incorrect impedances, plus your CW4s may have high sensitivity, but they certainly appreciate the better control that the Luxmann offers.

Having heard the IVs with a 590 I’m very very attracted to the Luxman.  Appreciate your thoughts, lots to ponder!  Was set on replacing tubes with tubes but now not so sure 

[aperfectcircle]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:18 AM, henry4841 said:

SET tube amps are class A. Nature of SET. Class A SS amps run hot but both SS class A and SET are the most linear form of amplification. The audio signal is not manipulated in any way. 

Yes thanks!  Aware that SET is also class A, the distinction was more specifically for solid state as if I go that way my preference is for A over A/B - not based on any logic or experience, but from lots (probably too much) of reading and reviews.  

[aperfectcircle]

On 12/28/2023 at 12:36 AM, Schu said:

there is a lot of good stuff going on in Vietnam... when I was looking for some Jupiter cap's a few years ago (after they stopped making them) I found some in Vietnam. they came with zero issues.

 

My choice would be for a Tube of some kind... a 45, 2A3 or 300 is good.

 

The audio scene here is quite big!  Have already met a fair few people with a lust for good sound, and the second hand market looks promising too as an alternative to buying new 

[henry4841]

3 hours ago, aperfectcircle said:

Yes thanks!  Aware that SET is also class A, the distinction was more specifically for solid state as if I go that way my preference is for A over A/B - not based on any logic or experience, but from lots (probably too much) of reading and reviews.  

What many do not know is that an active device, tube or transistor, sounds best when it has to work the hardest. Most audio designers run tubes on the output stage of a SET tube amplifier at 80% of max for tubes and transistors in a class A amp around 35% to 40% of max. Max for both will sound best, that is before they self destruct. Both are being working hard at 80% and 35% respectically. For tech minded geeks it means we run a lot of current through them both. Tubes are designed to run really hot whereas transistors in class A are generally run at 55C degrees which requires big heatsinks and hardware to keep them cool. This is one of the reasons high end audio buffs prefer class A.

 

You are probably aware from research already that the audio signal in class A is left as pure as possible and not manipulated as in class B. In class B the transistor is off until it detects a signal then turns on. This creates what is called in a class B PP amplifier as crossover distortion where the audio signal is split into with one section handling the positive part of the signal and another the negative. In a class A/B amplifier the active devices are run with some current where they will be on some but run more current when a larger signal is detected. In other words a class A amplifier at low volumes and turns into class B at higher volumes. Hence the name Class A/B. 

 

I am not that knowledgeable on class D. I have read the principles on class D operation but have not fully absorbed where I understand it fully. Too old and forgetful these days but from what little I remember 5 or more years ago a really high frequency signal is attached to the audio signal then filtered out before driving a speaker. Perhaps more talented people on this forum can explain class D operation better. Class D operation has come a long way since I first read about it in the 70's or 80's and many these days sound really good. I have many of them as well as many of the other forms of amplification. 

[82 Cornwalls]

@aperfectcircle

 

If I were you I would try to check out the diy community in Vietnam. I read on another forum how there are some very good builders using high end parts and excellent designs. The thread starter (on the other forum) is from the US, but was able to purchase an amplifier from one of the better known diy builders there and he posted pictures of the amplifier. It is very well built and beautiful.