Shakeydeal Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 9 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said: Bigger .. Mo Better.. For Me ...Crown K2. 🙂 It's the only way I.B. Slammin (Terry). 😇 It’s ok, some people want quantity over quality, and that’s certainly the theme for you. I could never live with a crown amp. Call me an audio snob if you will, but I have to draw the line somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 So I haven’t listened to my EL84 amp in quite a while. I put it in last weekend and it sounded so good I left it in for a while. For a minute there I questioned the money spent on the more expensive 300B amp. So last night I put it back in. It didn’t take long to hear the results of the extra money spent. The less powerful amp actually has better bass control and a bigger, bolder sound. The 300B amp is 5x the cost of the EL84 amp. It doesn’t sound five times better, we know that’s not how this game works. Even though I could live with either of them, the improvement justifies the cost for the better (and much less powerful) amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Now....what about the "low watt [i]high current[/i] thing I've read about here and there? Would this help my Heresy 1 perform at low volume? Or is that just my brutalized hearing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWOReilly Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 51 minutes ago, geezin' said: Now....what about the "low watt [i]high current[/i] thing I've read about here and there? Would this help my Heresy 1 perform at low volume? Or is that just my brutalized hearing.... In my head that sounds good in theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWelsh Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 50 minutes ago, geezin' said: Now....what about the "low watt [i]high current[/i] thing I've read about here and there? Would this help my Heresy 1 perform at low volume? Or is that just my brutalized hearing.... Yeah...what about that? Man, we need some audio engineers who can speak plain English to chime in. I feel like I'm reasonably intelligent and I think I understand some of this stuff, but I have to admit that I've never had that AHA moment where it all clicks into place and I can say, "if I do X I will get Y result". But, maybe that kind of clarity is just beyond me. Heck, I still think it radio is absolute magic, let alone television across the airwaves. 🤫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 OK, I just skimmed the entire thread, and did not see the following mentioned anywhere: Look at Figure 8 here. This is a typical distortion characteristic for a class AB amplifier. This happens to be a brute, an Adcom GFA-565, but lower-power class AB amplifiers distort in much the same way -- their distortion curves will just be "slid", in entirety, toward the left side of the graph. The important point is that the distortion at very low power (left end of the graph) is almost 20 dB higher than it is just before clipping (right end of the graph, just before the point where the curves suddenly shoot upward vertically). So if you're connecting your 99 dB sensitive speakers to this amplifier, and it's spending all of its time below 1 Watt, you're experiencing about 20 dB more harmonic distortion than if you used a low-power amplifier with just enough headroom to handle transients. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing. Unfortunately, that even applies to too much power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Thank you for that easy to grasp answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom05 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1% THD at 322 watts 8 ohms .01 THD at one watt 8 ohms 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 minute ago, Tom05 said: 1% THD at 322 watts 8 ohms . 01 THD at 1 watt 8 ohms <.002% THD at 200 Watts 8 Ohms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom05 Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 I don't think (that low of) distortion is the answer since some of the amplifiers that people like with their speakers are higher than the Adcom at 1 watt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 4 hours ago, CWelsh said: Yeah...what about that? Man, we need some audio engineers who can speak plain English to chime in. I feel like I'm reasonably intelligent and I think I understand some of this stuff, but I have to admit that I've never had that AHA moment where it all clicks into place and I can say, "if I do X I will get Y result". But, maybe that kind of clarity is just beyond me. Heck, I still think it radio is absolute magic, let alone television across the airwaves. 🤫 A lot of people just call most everything synergy. I think most of the time (80 - 90% just to throw a guesstimate out) if you know what to look for and can find comprehensive measurements, like Stereophile does, what works together and what doesn't can be explained, but it takes time, lots of research/investigation, and experimentation with different kit/trying things together to get a better understanding. Say you have x amount of money to spend on an amplifier and you find 2 at your price, a 50 watt amplifier and a 100 watt amplifier. Which one do you buy? The 100 watt one of course because more power is always better. What if the 100 watt amplifier was made for spec games and barely meets its specs on a test bench using 8 ohm resistors and the 50 watt amplifier was built for real world conditions by guys that know speakers aren't just an 8 ohm resistor and it can drive difficult loads without breaking a sweat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 2 minutes ago, 82 Cornwalls said: What if the 100 watt amplifier was made for spec games and barely meets its specs on a test bench using 8 ohm resistors and the 50 watt amplifier was built for real world conditions by guys that know speakers aren't just an 8 ohm resistor and it can drive difficult loads without breaking a sweat? That is why the ears should always be the final arbiters. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 10 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: I could never live with a crown amp. You're not alone. “I have the Crown service manual for that model, the cover actually says: "300 WATTS AND A CLOUD OF SMOKE" Basic Service Suggestions for the CROWN DC-300 Amplifier My advice is to buy something else.” djk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 10 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: It’s ok, some people want quantity over quality, and that’s certainly the theme for you. I could never live with a crown amp. Call me an audio snob if you will, but I have to draw the line somewhere. Sooo.. What about my K2 at the bottom And a D75-2 onnatop ?? That's my setup There is hardly s 1070-1980s Studio That did not have that Playback set up. 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezin' Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 If it sounds good to you go for it. Please don't let this thread go down that road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real Duke Spinner Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 3 minutes ago, geezin' said: If it sounds good to you go for it. Please don't let this thread go down that road. Many, many Studios use this set up for Playback For one Ocean Way in both locations ,😇 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82 Cornwalls Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 1 hour ago, the real Duke Spinner said: Many, many Studios use this set up for Playback Many, many studios use other brands for playback. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter P. Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 10 hours ago, geezin' said: Now....what about the "low watt [i]high current[/i] thing I've read about here and there? Would this help my Heresy 1 perform at low volume? Or is that just my brutalized hearing.... All that means is the low watt/high current amp is capable of driving speakers with very low impedance, even if they won't do it very loudly. That low impedance may not be across the full frequency range of the speaker but if it is some exotic speaker, that amp can handle it without damage. Most speakers are designed by engineers that are smart enough to design speakers for a wide variety of equipment. After all, they want to sell as many units as possible, no? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWelsh Posted April 21 Author Share Posted April 21 Changing the subject just a little... not much... I'm sitting here listening to Steely Dan's aja streaming in ultra hi-def. I'm in bliss and I'm not even a huge Dan fan. I've been playing with speaker placement over the last couple of weeks. Klipsch recommends keeping the Forte IIIs within about 10 inches from the back wall for best bass performance. I tried that and found the bass pretty subdued. Plus, the sound stage was just flat. I pulled the speakers out to 16" with a very slight toe-in and it is a world of difference. I don't have the tools to measure the actual performance of the speakers, and maybe I would find everything completely out of whack if I could, but it really sounds great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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