mobile homeless Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Lord.... What a lovely one-two punch for a wonderful saturday morn. Heh... Lordy, Deano! You outdid yourself. "Loon" seems anticlimactic here. My wife actually uses this Edwards piece in an English class as an example of amazing imagery, scare tactics, fear, used in persuasion....all which seemingly WORK on Mr. and Mrs. Human Being. Man, perhaps the irony is not lost on this one. I wonder how this would measure on the scope? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Yeah, that was kind of "anitclamatic". I removed it. Not a half bad post for me considering my brain's only half engaged today. There are some great truths in that writing that Allan copied in, but it's heavy handed and lopsided. The biggest problem with it is that it doesn't reveal the whole character of God. It's like taking an aspect of someone's character, and basing everything you believe about them on that one aspect. What the Reformers and Puritans missed is that love limits sovereignty. It's easy to look at the Old Testament and see how God dealt with Israel, and come to the conclusion that He's nothing but a cruel hard-nosed SOB. For whatever reason, what is usually forgotten is all of the provisions for grace and forgiveness God provided. Also, much of it to me is like doing 95mph down a road marked for 40 -- you hit a tree -- and then blame the car manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschfoot Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 ---------------- Also, much of it to me is like doing 95mph down a road marked for 40 -- you hit a tree -- and then blame the car manufacturer. ---------------- Only because it is easier than blaming God for allowing a tree to grow there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 I believe in equal rights for EVERYONE, including minorities and homosexuals, young and old, rich and poor, and for people of all religious and cultural differences. Everyone deserves to live in peace and happiness. No ands, ifs, or buts. Only those people who commit an unlawful crime should have their equal rights waived. Period! Frankly, I just don't see the big deal towards gay couples uniting. I'm a straight man who also has a gay brother that I still love and respect dearly! My brother has a great job, pays his taxes, has lots of gay and straight friends, is loved by our family, and is a law abiding citizen in our community. Should he be condemned because of his sexual preference? He's not out in public committing lewd perverted acts; I've seen way more straight couples groping and fondling eachother in public places than I have with gay couples (remember, I worked at the Walt Disney World theme parks for over 17 years where the majority of its employees are homosexual)! I'm also a Roman Catholic that's totally disgusted with the large percentage of priests who've molested young boys throughout the decades. And I have another younger brother who's divorced and has since remarried and has two lovely daughters...should the Catholic community look down on him? I have no ill feelings towards Muslims or people from middle eastern nations, only terrorists! I see nothing wrong with prayer in schools or the Ten Commandments chizzled into the cornerstone of buildings. But if it bothers you personally, then don't pay it any mind, let it be, and MOVE ON! Stupidity is what I can't stand the most! Teach your children right from wrong, not to hate, and to respect all life! It's very simple really. It worked for me and my brothers! If Janet's breast, Rosie's union with another woman, Mel Gibson's new movie, or Howard Stern's radio show bothers or disturbs you, then tune it out and go on. All sorts of situations are going to continue to spring up and test us; it has since the beginning of time! We have much more important things to worry about (like bringing our troops back home) than Rosie O'Donnell getting hitched! Just my lil' opinion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 What's this about Janet's breast? Did I miss something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 If you did, DeanO, then here it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 28, 2004 Share Posted February 28, 2004 Here's my $2 worth. The situation in the Roman Catholic Church is deplorable. It should be distressing for all involved, not just to those who are Catholic, but for all who call themselves Christian. I include Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox in this group. There are considered to be over 25k Christian sects in the world, most which believe in the basic fundamentals of the Christian faith. Not to lessen or increase the severity of the problem, if put in context, the percentage is no higher than any other profession. If one can find the data, there is not a lower percentage of those committing sexual abuse in other denominations. The same holds true for police, psychiatry, surgeons, librarians, etc. This, however does not lessen the crime. It is also deplorable to those outside of Christianity, as well it should be. Those who call themselves Christian should be more ashamed, for believing and acting on what is professed, one would expect a bit (maybe a lot?) better life lived. Not perfect, but better. But the church (universal) tends to follow the ways of the world, and not the precepts she claims to hold near and dear. Dave's comments on the lack of respect the Catholic Church has in St. Louis hurts. But it is not suprising. It is ironic that the Catholic Church, from sometime in the 1100s, has had policies regarding sexual abuse and impropriety in the priesthood. Those found guilty were to be removed from office and placed where they would not have contact with others, where they could not be an offense. So, yes, the Church (Catholic) has failed over and over again to do what she claims is the correct thing to do. Most of our culture in the U.S. has had homophobic tendencies, perhaps largely due to historic Christian values. Should this be suprising to us? Not at all, if we look at the Bible and read it in its entirety. If we (Christians) believe these words to be true, then God does hate those who are gay, homosexual, etc. He also hates those who lie and steal. Those who hold a grudge against someone else, and on and on. Perhaps He just hates those who don't turn from those things. It doesn't matter if it is Old Testament or New Testament, it is one continuous document. Yes, some parts of the OT are fulfilled in the NT by the works of Jesus, He being the fulfillment of much OT prophecy. But the U.S. is far from that now. We are more culturally diverse (not a bad thing), and more religiously diverse (according to our constitution, this is not a bad thing either, and protected as well). The Catholic Church has been persecuted in the U.S. throughout its history, including riots in the Northeast in the 1840s, fear that a Catholic president would be run by Rome (JFK), and more. We fear what we do not know. So I am called to love, not hate. I don't hate anyone. You will have to decide if God does. There is always the debate of whether God hates the sin or the sinner. I have enough to watch out for in my own life thank you. It isn't just the Right Wing Christians who were offended by the debacle of the Superbowl halftime show. Or offended by talk radio. I don't watch much tv and I don't listen to talk radio. Way back when I was a liberal hippie type (late '60s), I made the comment that what makes this country so strong and wonderful is what will also be its downfall. Freedom. Freedom to do pretty much whatever you like, and say whatever you like. Parents would understand the fine balance between freedom for your children and restrictions you impose on them. Too many restrictions and they rebel, or end up not being able to think for themselves when they are older. Too little, and they can quite lterally ruin their lives. We still love them, even when they do wrong, even when they do stupid things. So the pendulum may be swinging back to conservative again. Not fiscal conservative, and not social conservative. Moral conservative. The problem is this: whose morals? Dean is on his third marriage, I am on my second marriage. Mine just happens to be with the same woman. Selfishness, pride, immorality and a lot more got in the way during the first marriage (five years). As Dean said, Christ is now at the center of our lives. We are going on 27 years of something wonderful. If you aren't there, you won't understand it. I try not to get angry, be full of hate. I try to surrender, always. Great post Allan! J. Edwards was a powerful preacher, even if a bit lopsided as Dean points out. The meter stopped, I've spent my $2. Send me a PM if you want to discuss more, I won't continue this thread here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 I remember attending an Ontario Public School Teachers Federation convention seventeen years ago and someone from Toronto wanted gay and lesbian members to have equal access to same sex benefits. This was voted down by about 95%. Seven years later it passed with about 70% in favour. Times do change. Toronto even allows legal gay and lesbian marriages in the past year. (court ordered) Toronto had a gay rights parade years ago that attracted a couple of thousand people. Now the parade attracts a crowd near a million people. Some from Toronto, Canada, the US and elsewhere in the world, as well as a large number of nongay or lesbian individuals. This city has changed in my life time from puritanical to multicultural and diverse. If two people love and care about each other and the children involved, then that is of greater importance than whether they are "gay" or "straight". I started out as a conservative politically and have mellowed as the years go by. A former prime minister of Canada, Pierre Elliott Trudeau, once said that the government should stay out of the bedrooms of the nation. George Bush and his conservative religious right, should stop any foolish thoughts about a constitutional ammendment that legalizes discrimination. No wonder many people outside of the US can't comprehend how he ever got elected in the first place. God help us if gays or lesbians ever had rights the same as the rest of us, or were ever seen on t.v. Hold on , they are on t.v. Lighten up, relax, the world is not going to come to an end. At least not because of Rosie getting married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 I make it a point never to discuss sex, religion, or politics with Rosie O'Donnell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Wow, a thread regarding gays and marriage that has attracted less hatred than how powerful a tube amp one should buy! Whether we agree or disagree, or agree to disagree with the current happenings, I find it significant we choose to reflect in a very personal manner our shortcomings and stuggle to find grace with God. We are allowed a passage on this mortal coil to be a service to others, and to try to make easier the path of those in pain, suffering, and ones who have a need for grace in their lives. Please don't forget that people we deem living in sin are our brothers, sisters, parents, and friends. While I don't advocate we broach all societal boundaries, a vow of marriage is not lightly undertaken nor lightly discarded before man or God. If we make it before God for judgement, there will be shock at the assemblage of criminals, murderers, and unworthy folks allowed in heaven. Chosen, earned, or gifted, remember the first granted passage at the crucification of Jesus, for Chistians, was a common thief who recognized the passage to heaven is granted by acceptance of the glory of God, not the absence of sin. Hopefully there will be some nice stereos in Heaven, and not just sweet harp music on CDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Myself, I think the US needs to concentrate all our resourses and energys towards feeding , housing and jobs for all Americans. The News media should be slammed for wasting so much time on the Rosie and Hans Christian Anderson group..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Myself, I think the US needs to concentrate all our resourses and energys towards feeding , housing and jobs for all Americans. ============= The media is generally so focused on issues and events that take no thought. Just reguritate the crap. Rosie or abortion (it is a womens right even though I know 2 women that are tortured by this choice in their youth every day; adoption?) or who is running for governor of California is trivial unless you live in California (it should make no difference to the citizens of the other 49 states). Priorities 1. Stop buying oil from Saudi Arabia. Our cash subsidizes terrorists. 2. A national energy policy. We have not even built a new nuclear power plant in 10 years. Our technology is better than 10 years ago i bet we make them safer now. Get started! On something... 3. Heath care for everyone. Except if you are stupid. My MD sister in law spent $ 300,000 over a year on a self destructive heroin addict with AIDS. He though he got AIDS from having sex with his stepmother. Crack babies; if their lives are saved at the cost of hundreds of thousdands of dollars each; what quality of life will they have anyway. We already have health care for everyone, it is just to expensive now and in the future to service the people who do not earn it or do not act responsibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 ---------------- On 2/29/2004 12:56:59 PM sheltie dave wrote: Wow, a thread regarding gays and marriage that has attracted less hatred than how powerful a tube amp one should buy! ---------------- Is Rosie subtle and nuanced enough for SET? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Bill, throw jobs at the head of the list. There is no higher dignity than to know that your labor is valued, and can produce a roof over your head, food on the tables, clothes, and money to be saved for your children(or spent by you!)I hope this election cycle can result in a dedicated effort to create real jobs, maybe even a CCC program, that actually will improve the nation's infrastructure. Unfortunately, it looks like issues such as the Marriage constitutional admendment will dominate political discourse for a long time. In the meantime, we recently gained 40,000 burger flippin' jobs in Missouri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 ---------------- On 2/29/2004 12:56:59 PM sheltie dave wrote: Hopefully there will be some nice stereos in Heaven, and not just sweet harp music on CDs ---------------- Yes, indeed! Most people seem to think that heaven will be like church.... ...only longer... Don't think that would be a satisfactory experience for eternity. Dave, you are right on about the people we will be surprised to see in heaven. One's own sense of humor will help when one recognizes surprise on the faces of others who have just seen you there, too. Also you are right on the importance of work. The scriptures don't say much about that, but in the imaginations of C.S. Lewis and Scott Peck and some others, they suggest that we will still have work in the next life. That is an interesting idea. It is something for which we have been designed. Easy as with everything else for work to become an expression of fallenness, but that's not the last word on work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted February 29, 2004 Share Posted February 29, 2004 Saw a poll recently that said 95% of Americans expect to go to heaven. Kind of flies in the face of scripture, though: MATTHEW 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Every year I expect santa claus to come sliding down my chimney with a big sack of presents at christmas time but it never happens. Is it because I've been bad? If I'm so bad that santa won't deliver presents to my house does this mean I automatically won't get into heaven? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 1, 2004 Author Share Posted March 1, 2004 Good heavens - look what I started.... On the whole - well behaved, one or two surprizing statements but I suppose that is par for the couse. Interesting perhaps that those that are most appalled by the prospect of Gays marying are seemingly not in the least bothered by divorce. If you truely regard marriage as a sacred institution then divorce is somewhat tricky to reconcile, is it not? Maybe once is acceptable (maybe!!) - anyone can make a mistake - but multiple times? What price the sacred when it is taken, and abandoned so lightly? Remember that in the Old Testament the penalty for Homosexuality was identical to the penalty for marital infidelity (stoning). Society has chosen to ignore the latter but that does not make it less of a sin than the former - if we still accept the concept of sin at all. Fortunately the punishment system has also been abandoned. Allowing Homosexual marriages does not, automatically open the door to other, less acceptable relationships (paedophilic for example). There is still the element of concenting adults whatever their sexual orientation. Wanting to marry one's dog is more of an issue for psychiatry than society. It would also be rather tricky to implement the same standards of fidelity on the dog as are (nominally) expected from the human. I am unsure of the place of religion in any of this. Society accepts civil marriages that make no mention of God(s) in any form. These are not held as secondary marriages, in some way lesser than religious ceremonies. Any religious institution reserves the right to refuse to marry any individuals in their own temple - but not to prevent them from marrying elsewhere, gay or straight. I would also add one thing here - as it applies to the case originally mentioned - i.e. Rosie's marriage. There are children here - 4 of them it seems. In Max's view of the Universe anything that adds to the stability of a Child's environment whilst growing up is worthy of serious consideration. There may be more to marriage than the rearing of children but once they are there it does seem to be the system of choice with a reasonably good track record. Polygamy is rather outside of my experience. It is currently not acceptable in our society. People just have affairs and get divorced instead - somehow this is more acceptable, again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan krajewski Posted March 1, 2004 Share Posted March 1, 2004 Only in America! Rosie weds because of president Bush's "vile and vicious and hateful comments". Good solid basis for a "marriage". What a loser! Can't anyone just do what they feel is right for themselves without forcing everyone else to bow down and pay homage? Is the individual extinct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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