Piranha Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Not in Mid Michigan everyone left back in the 80's !! Too cold. They all moved to CA to enjoy the sunshine, beach and thongs. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 After reading through this thread it's apparent that only a handful of us still know the difference between good, better, and best. I mean, I guess all 'upgrades' are really just laterals now. Hey, it's not "better" -- it's just different!! What a bunch of horsesh!t. Those folks who got the to hear the Jubilees couldn't quit drooling over the sound. For crying out loud the thing is basically a modified Klipschorn! It's about attaining the highest level of resolving power, transparency, and dynamics -- with the lowest distortion possible. If some here have lost the stomach for the climb, or can't decide which path to take because a little bit of snow gets them all confused -- they should head back to base camp and knit a nice sweater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I recommend that everyone get a decent vinyl rig for their next upgrade. It could very well be your next jaw dropping experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Allan's probably fighting that LA traffic right now, trying to get home so he can install them. Could be Long Beach 5-405 merge yyyyyeeeeeuuuukkkkk! Jim, that's actually referred to as the El Toro "Y". And yes, it's gnarly. I am guessing that Allan probably takes the 710 to L.B. Usually not much better with all the container trucks going back and forth from port to downtown LA. Yeah I have traveled it a time or two. Back when LBNSY was still open I used to time my departure for SD to miss as much of that as possible. But I always caught at least part of it. My worst daily issue is the 15. Last week I got caught on 5 N leaving from Kearney Mesa and there was a 4 car accident closing 3 lanes up near Encinitas. A normal l hour ride took a little over 2 1/2. 15 is bad but the 5 is a friggin nightmare. I agree I'll take So Cal. Drove the Beltway a few times back when I lived in So MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 F_ck it! I am just going to listen to Launch.com on my multi-media speakers and sub. That way I don't have to upgrade my two-channel rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Gary, when swapping tweeters is is crucial to be able to control levels, I bought a fostex l-pad to adjust the levels of my JBL 2404H without it I could not live with the sound. I suggest making sure you have control of levels before tossing out a tweeter replacement candidate, madisound (where I bought mine) has these fostex units for about $20. also, I think you should try the 2404H it really sounds great with k-horns! regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 After reading through this thread it's apparent that only a handful of us still know the difference between good, better, and best. I mean, I guess all 'upgrades' are really just laterals now. Hey, it's not "better" -- it's just different!! What a bunch of horsesh!t. Those folks who got the to hear the Jubilees couldn't quit drooling over the sound. For crying out loud the thing is basically a modified Klipschorn! It's about attaining the highest level of resolving power, transparency, and dynamics -- with the lowest distortion possible. If some here have lost the stomach for the climb, or can't decide which path to take because a little bit of snow gets them all confused -- they should head back to base camp and knit a nice sweater. Why are you so miserable? It seems like every post from you these days is an avalanche of vitriol. We know that you think your opinions are the only valid ones around here, but you used to be able to tone it down a bit in days gone by . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 Deano, I have to agree somewhat with Allan on this one. Lighten up dude. You're going to give yourself a heart attack. It's not like you're here listening to our systems with us. Give us technically challenged folks a little credit. I personally don't care what something looks like on a scope or how many hz my tweeters reach (see, I can't even speak the lingo). I like the way my system sounds with the K77s. I also prefer jazz to heavy metal. Sinatra with an orchestra does way more for me then Mudvaine or Van Halen or the Blue Man Group. Horns are completely different animals then electric guitars. In my initial post, I even stated that my rock LPs sounded way better with Bob's tweeters. I still love you man.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 If someone would just knit him a nice sweater, he'd be fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 probably still recovering from the effect of last night's cocktails at this early hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def Leper Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Not in Mid Michigan everyone left back in the 80's !! Too cold. They all moved to CA to enjoy the sunshine, beach and thongs. [] LOL. Don't forget other California regional treats like overpopulaton, droughts, firestorms, torrential rains, mudslides, landslides, earthquakes, tsunami's, 2-hour commutes in some of the heaviest air pollution in the world, 1500 sq. foot homes built on a slab for only $400,000, some of the highest tax rates in the country, and freeway shooters. Here in Michigan we don't get quite as much sunshine but we sure have more beaches (second longest coastline in America, 3288 miles verus CA's puny 840 miles), some very beautiful ladies, as well as thousands of wonderful lakes (11,000), beautiful forests, some real serious camping, hunting and fishing, and even some smaller-scale mountains with world-class wilderness areas. Of course, we don't have Gov. Arnold, Paulie Shore, and the world's largest supply of fruits and nuts, but then you can't have everything. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Gary, when swapping tweeters is is crucial to be able to control levels, I bought a fostex l-pad to adjust the levels of my JBL 2404H without it I could not live with the sound. I suggest making sure you have control of levels before tossing out a tweeter replacement candidate, madisound (where I bought mine) has these fostex units for about $20. also, I think you should try the 2404H it really sounds great with k-horns! regards, tony Tony makes a good point. When I first put the Eminence tweeters in, I noticed an improvement over the K-77s. After listening for awhile, however, I noticed that on some songs the new tweeters shouted over the squawkers. I responded by increasing the squawker volume (ALKs) and now I run my Trachorns almost full out. Much better balance and integration, yet you can hear the clarity of the driver in Bob's new horn. I think Bob's tweeters benefit by tweeter attentuation or by correspondingly increasing the squawker level. I would have said it a bit differently (including the tone), but I agree with Dean's basic premise. Having owned various "round" and "square" versions of the K-77s (70s, 80s and 90s), the Eminence are an improvement in sound quality, including realism and clarity for classical, jazz, and rock over most of the K-77 models (I cannot speak to the latest version run by an AK-4). I put some round and square K-77s back in to my Heritage, listened to a variety of stuff on vinyl and CD, and that confirmed it for me. But those are only my ears, and different people hear things differently. As you know, Gary, always stay with whatever sounds the best to you. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def Leper Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 After reading through this thread it's apparent that only a handful of us still know the difference between good, better, and best. I mean, I guess all 'upgrades' are really just laterals now. Hey, it's not "better" -- it's just different!! What a bunch of horsesh!t. ...... It's about attaining the highest level of resolving power, transparency, and dynamics -- with the lowest distortion possible. If some here have lost the stomach for the climb, or can't decide which path to take because a little bit of snow gets them all confused -- they should head back to base camp and knit a nice sweater. For me, it's all about enjoying my music and nothing more. I can't think of anything sadder than someone with a "best of everything" sound system who can't hear anything more than "resolving power, transparency, and dynamics." The average listener probably needs far less than any of us own to enjoy a quality listening experience and equating that to a mountain ascension needs to turn the oxygen a bit higher. Usually the pursuit of "best" is a hollow one, and really just an excuse to say "I'm better than you are" because of what I own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Gary, like others have already written: there is nothing wrong with preferring the K77 to its replacement (which is not meant to be a negative comment on Bob's tweeter). Personally I wouldn't want to be without my JBLs (and strangely enough I seem to be one of the few posters who doesn't find them too hot.....probably my hearing ain't what it used to be []). Anyway, of all the changes I have done to my Khorns (and 'thanks ever so' much PWK for making this such an easy job) the most vital seems to be the change of the squawker horn. Don't get me wrong: Al's crossover, the different tweeters....all were noticable changes -or rather upgrades (IMO)....but the most dramatic improvement for me was the EV horn. In my dictionary this does not mean stock heritage speakers are crap -just the other day I spent enjoyable two hours in front of non-modded LS's - they just have a different flavour....and right now I enjoy my 'sound' more.....just like you prefer the K77. Thus just enjoy a good tune or two. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 MAN! This one has really stured up a hornets nest! [st] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Not in Mid Michigan everyone left back in the 80's !! Too cold. They all moved to CA to enjoy the sunshine, beach and thongs. [] LOL. Don't forget other California regional treats like overpopulaton, droughts, firestorms, torrential rains, mudslides, landslides, earthquakes, tsunami's, 2-hour commutes in some of the heaviest air pollution in the world, 1500 sq. foot homes built on a slab for only $400,000, some of the highest tax rates in the country, and freeway shooters. Here in Michigan we don't get quite as much sunshine but we sure have more beaches (second longest coastline in America, 3288 miles verus CA's puny 840 miles), some very beautiful ladies, as well as thousands of wonderful lakes (11,000), beautiful forests, some real serious camping, hunting and fishing, and even some smaller-scale mountains with world-class wilderness areas. Of course, we don't have Gov. Arnold, Paulie Shore, and the world's largest supply of fruits and nuts, but then you can't have everything. [] Amen Brother !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggerIsBetter Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 SO, how about back to the sound of the new tweeter to help those on the fence? Given my great wisdom of 2 whole days with these things, I will add my .02. From looking at the response charts, I was expecting something that was "brilliant" that would immediately sound "stunning" but would take some time to determine whether it was better or just more. That's not at all what I got. When I changed out the first tweet it actually sounded a tad flat and dull in comparison to the other side (and what I was used to). I checked all the hook ups just to be sure I had not messed up. Then I took a few minutes and listened to the same tracks back-to-back on each side, spare me the one channel comparison caveats it the best I could do.... The new tweet did seem lower in level, but it did not have the rough edges of the old (1981ish, K-77-M) tweet. On the old, the high notes had an edge/blur (sibilance on female vocals) that was simply not there on the new. There was also more there on the extension side. The best example was the jazz station that I listen to a lot (95.5 KYOT <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Phoenix). The station promo spot, "desert nights smoooooooth jazz..." has some background sounds while the low male voice is talking. I have heard this a hundred times at least. On the old tweets I could tell that there was a cricket in that "noise". With the new tweets, there is a whole outdoor symphony going on. I was enveloped by sound that was barely there/discernable with the old. I did some very quick measurements and was a bit surprised. The new tweets are down in level a LOT, more than I thought, compared to the old....like 3-5dB. I plan to reverse polarity on the mids, but I doubt that will make a difference. I also tried various music (rock, jazz, the classical) at high levels. The new tweet certain keep their composure much better. Those rough edged on the old really come out at high levels. A sound I have heard attributed to the lower order filters (1 am using a first order simple . So, what I got was a lower level output tweet that sounds more detailed, clear, and extended....better in every regard. I agree with a comment above that some level matching devise should be available when messing with tweeters. I expect that issues with the "sound" of this tweet have more to do with how the HF levels are effected by the new tweet and not the inherent sound. I know it's called a "drop in" replacement. But, like most other mods, unless you are willing to play around you will not likely get the "best" out of the changes. You may get "better", but not the optimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 MAN! This one has really stured up a hornets nest! [st] Hornets nests are fun for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I too found the dB to be slightly lower by RTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I too found the dB to be slightly lower by RTA. In retrospect, my comments on the volume level of the new tweeter may not be applicable because I am using the baby cheeks version of the Eminence driver, which has different dispersion characteristics than the K-77 shape. That coupled with the extension may account for why I wanted to kick the new tweeter down a notch (or raise the squawker). The point remains the same, however, it helps to dial in any new tweeter or tweak it volume-wise to suit your personal tastes. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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