Will we ever be happy?

[PhilMays]

We are the tweakingness bunch of people I have ever seen.

We move equiptment, replace wires and cables. We buy our dream piece only to covet our neighbors equiptment. We research, talk, and accouse others of trying to tweak equiptment through "snake oil" ideas and concepts.

Through this our spouses say "what's wrong with it now...IT SOUNDS GREAT!"

Is it that we have OCD?

Well I for one am stopping it now. NO MORE TWEAKING! THAT'S IT!!!

I'll start tomorrow right after I move my equiptment tonight and rewire the entire system!

OCD Phil

[Cal Blacksmith]

It is possible to reach a point where you are truly happy. My system has been in a stable state for nearly a year now. Allan Songer has has a stable system for years. Is my equipment the best, no by no means but I am to the point that I feel to gain any more quality, the cost of the upgrades will be more than I want to spend. This could change in the future but the last time I reached this point with equipment, my system stayed the same for 25 years!

[Jeff Matthews]

Here's the deal... This may excite some of you, but really, truly, you can have a perfectly great system with a decent used amp for $300-500 and Klipsch of your choice (Cornwalls or better). The rest is $$$ on marginal performance. A Sony CD player will do just fine. Tuner? Who needs a tuner? Pre-amp. A decent used one for $150-250 will do. All this belief that a person needs to spend $$$ on Ah-Joe-Toheb stuff is beyond me.

Yeah, you might discern a little difference, and it might even be an obvious, little difference. But it's all in your mind if you think that little difference is really big. That's why you get the typical comments in here about wives complaining about constant tweaking and wondering why it's not already good enough.

[xdetroitx]

Upon purchasing my present set up I promised my fiance that this system would last US 20 years(I did say I would eventually need am amp). Its not even 2 months old and I am already foaming at the mouth over rf-7 adds; not to mention I am stalking k-horn adds on ebay. Its an addiction. Some men get into classic cars, others spend a $1000 on a driver for golf just to find out they dont like it and replace it. Truth is.....this is my hobby. I enjoy playing with my system just as much as I like listening to music. I am happy with my present set-up(except for the rear Bose); but there will always be stuff I covet. Not only for the equipment, but also for the time spent tweaking it.

[picky]

Phil: I think I may have succeeded after all of those years spent tweaking! My theater reference system has remained relatively "tweakless" for nearly the past two years and I continue to be thoroughly satisfied in its performance. Add to this the fact that the audiences I share my theater with are comprised of the greatest and oldest friends I have in this world, topped only by the fact that I am in the 33rd year of being married to the greatest, most-understanding girl in the world! In summary: Life's pretty good, Phil. And, I think that's pretty good for someone who's "picky". [] -Glenn

[PhilMays]

Phil: I think I may have succeeded after all of those years spent tweaking! My theater reference system has remained relatively "tweakless" for nearly the past two years and I continue to be thoroughly satisfied in its performance. Add to this the fact that the audiences I share my theater with are comprised of the greatest and oldest friends I have in this world, topped only by the fact that I am in the 33rd year of being married to the greatest, most-understanding girl in the world! In summary: Life's pretty good, Phil. And, I think that's pretty good for someone who's "picky". [] -Glenn

Picky,

Very, Very Sweet!!! My Ex-wife was very understanding but still thought I was OCD over it. My current Wife, and last, is in the medical field and knows I'm OCD. Then it hit me we all are over our hobbies!!!!

Time to move a speaker, tri-wire, bi-amp and place sonic stones around the room.

[Jay481985]

now take your ritalin and you will be all right.....

[PhilMays]

Went home for lunch and listened to Dire Straights Brothers In Arms!!!!

Ahhhhh....she's playing good right now!!!

OCD PHIL

[colterphoto1]

That's it Phil!

Let's have a Gratitude day for what our systems are and what we have. Just go home and put on some music or movie and ENJOY!

Put the screwdrivers down gentlemen.

Michael

[ScorpsFan]

I'm with Michael (Colterphoto1) on this one, just finished watching/listening to "The Strat Pack" DVD and am getting ready to put in AC/DC.

[Audible Nectar]

It's interesting you folks mention the wives. That's exactly the test I use to determine just how far is far enough. Not the temper or patience, mind you - but her ears.

If I make a change, I say nothing and see if she notices it, good or bad. I find that much of the time, her comments tell me if my changes are worth persuing. She isn't an audiophile by any means - but she can certainly detect changes in the system. When I removed the 6L6GC's from my Macs and installed some chinese KT66, she commented "what did you do in here?" It was that apparent. If she can tell, then I know that I am at least making noticeable changes, and not just "slight tweaky stuff". Same held true on my CD player A/B tests, as well as my listening comparisons on several McIntosh MC30 builds. In many respects, she gives me some perspective - and keeps me in line regarding "worthwhile" changes. Sure, I know when a change counts - but it's nice to have that moderating voice to keep some semblance of "normalcy".

As far as component upgrades, I certainly feel that I'm pretty much where I want to be. Barring a component failure that would dictate replacement, I'm pretty happy with what I have now: McIntosh MX110, two pairs of MC30s, and an Ah! tube CD deck on the Belle Klipsch. The theater is set with six Cornwalls, two JBL 4638 LFE cabs, a Krell HT preamp, Rega Planet CD, and a basic Panny DVD (all I need is a truly BIG screen). The big project around here has centered on rebuilding my MC30's - and just what components (especially the small signal caps) should be used. It was a year long investigation, but I am now awaiting the second amp (in transit) to complete the rebuild of my first pair of MC30s. I also have future plans to have the second pair of 30s rebuilt once I get a comfort zone sonically with my first pair's build. I'm THAT in love with the MC30s enough to know that I will never replace them. I do also have plans to purchase a "parts" amp for each pair of MC30s that I own, to ensure that I will have parts for these precious amps for life.

So for me, I'm pretty happy with what I've done. It's not so much upgrades in the component lineup that I'm working on - it is refreshing the components I have (especially the 30s) and am currently happy with - and reinforcing that investment. And yeah, I've been tube hunting off and on as well, because nothing sounds like the NOS brands do in 30s. But I only want to do this once. And once you find what you want, it's nice to be done looking.....especially with the main stuff, like amps, speakers, and such. The rest is just reinforcing and maintaining the system setup and investment for a lifetime of enjoyment.

[IB Slammin]

Nec,

If I owned your junk rigs, I would continue to look.[:'(] WOW!

My wife has been listening to my audio efforts starting with the ba*tard H's in 1970. CW's in '73, second pair in '75 and so on. She is my golden ear. Without telling her, I changed a preamp tube a while back and she noticed.

Still a few things to pick up though......Gulp....

We will celebrate our 36th wedding anniversary this weekend. Never a cross word, never looked at another woman.[] .....I have this bridge that is up for sale........leads to some beach property.......

Regards,

Terry

[PhilMays]

Pretyy sweet setup for sure.

My Ex would listen and my current is plenty happy with mp3 quality stuff. When she got her Crossfire I was riding in it and the stereo sounded like crap and was set on the factory settings...she never noticed and was plenty happy just singing to James Taylor with the top down and the wind blowing through her hair.....It all in your prospective!

[SilverSport]

yes...I think we can be...I have been very lucky lately, much of it blamed on this place here...I wrote last week about listening to the great sound of my Klipschorns (thanks for all the help Win/dodger) powered by a JuicyMusicAudio BlueBerry MkI and Craig NOSValves VRDs using the diminutive Toshiba SD-3950 as my "CD" player...

In my family room I have the Outlaw Audio 950/7100/LFM-1 combo with a popbumpered Academy and BEC Heresys front and rear...tweaked after some help from my buddies here and at outlawaudio.com...my brother can testify to the startled look I had on my face when German incoming artillary went from left rear to right rear Heresy and then to right front Heresy and center Academy...it really makes me smile.

Upstairs I have my little Dr. Bill/Daddy Dee EICO HF-81 singing through mint Walnut Oiled Quartets also using a Toshiba SD-3950 as the "CD" source...right now REALLY making me smile with John Mayer after listening to Bono and the boys from Ireland...what punch from 14 "little" watts per channel...talk about bang for the buck.

I am always looking for other speakers and whatnot to try a different flavor of that same Klipsch Heritage Ice Cream (I like the Reference RB-5s as do I the Synergy KSB 1.1s in the garage with Nakamichi TA/2A STASIS SS power)

I am passing this on too as my lil Sis will be inheriting McIntosh MA6200...MAC1900 (for a tuner) and the RB-5s in Mahogany for her introduction to Klipsch (from Bose 301s

Thanks Klipsch and everyone here who has made my ears smile and emptied my bank account!

Bill

[boomer9911]

I WILL WIN...oh yes, my $5 Government fed lottery addiction every Friday will pay off some Century...but I will win, even if I'm not around...oops, sorry wrong thread...DOH...[]

[Doc Robin]

I for one am not at the point where I can stop tweaking yet; but the day is coming where I will just be able to sit back and ENJOY the system. Bill

[Duke Spinner]

Here's the deal... A Sony CD player will do just fine.

Yeah, you might discern a little difference, and it might even be an obvious, little difference.

OOOoooooooohhhhhh..........Jeff .......[:S]

while I am listening to my 30 year old Kenwood amp,

I am also listening to my Jolida JD-100

let me tell You, Jeff.........

the difference between the Jolida, and the 3 Carvers ( Yamaha ) I own.....

is Stunning.......[Y]

[cjgeraci]

"Jeff Matthews:

Here's the deal... A Sony CD player will do just fine.

Yeah, you might discern a little difference, and it might even be an obvious, little difference. "

OOOoooooooohhhhhh..........Jeff .....

while I am listening to my 30 year old Kenwood amp,
I am also listening to my Jolida JD-100

let me tell You, Jeff.........

the difference between the Jolida, and the 3 Carvers ( Yamaha ) I own.....

is Stunning.......

Agree, Duke. I have run a variety of CD players over the years including some nice Sonys, Denons, etc., and there is a dramatic improvement using a modded Jolida. More than just "little." Leads one to wonder what models of tubed CDPs Jeff has heard - and what other parts were in those systems? I would also rate the difference of going to a tube prepro - much more than just "little."

For the record, I am at a point where I am very happy with my system and currently have no desire to tweak anymore. Then again, I've tweaked plenty to get to this point.

Three Belles across the front: the '77 main Belles have been modded with Trachorns and Eminence APT-200s (w/ALK, Srs.), the center '91 Belle has a Bob's tweeter and a DHAxover. The rears are modded Altecs Valencias with Beyma CP25s and custom 3-way networks by DeanG. The sub is a SVS PB12-NSD/2. Preamps are a Classe SSP 30 Mk II (for movies and DVD-Audio/SACD) and a Juicy Music Peach (Siemens CCas, Amperex White Holland). Sources are a modded Jolida JD100, a Denon 2900, and a Thorens TD160 Super. Current amps are two QSC PLX 1202s for the front three, and a Marantz 8B for the Altecs. There is also a modded Dynaco Stereo 70 in the stable, and I rotate the various amps - often just for the heck of it..................

Carl.

[Colin]

Every time I drop another small roll of bills on stereo equipment, that really should go somewhere else more practical, I wonder this same question too. The Rolling Stones sang, we cant always get what we want, but if we try sometimes, we get what we need. The question is, if we keep on trying with this hobby, will we get what we need? <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Because our ears are coupled to the most powerful, massively-parallel super-computer - at a phenomenal 10 quadrillion instructions per second on the planet, we excel at awesome pattern recognition of shapes and sounds. We learn to hear even the tiniest, barely measurable, differences between audio devices.

Timbre, pitch, tone, attack, decay, extended highs and lows, texture, tempo, punch, soundstage, resolution, balance, separation, imaging, depth, dynamics, clarity, distortion, volume, details, melody and rhythm are being recorded and analyzed in the incredibly RAM of our bio-chemical supercomputers. Our brain spots the anomalies and tells us that something is not right. Hello! This isnt live!

(This presumes that we are actually seeking to replicate the live music experience with a 3D sonic holograph of Princess Leiah singing right there, in our own living rooms. This is not usually the case. Most of the time, even tweaking audiophiles simply want their system to sound like the mega-buck one at the local movie theater, or concert.)

I think our non-stop recognition of unnatural distortions and anomalies, with constant signaling, tires the ears and the brain, wearing out our ears. So all the things that thrill you at first may soon leave you yearning for more. This fake stuff is wearing me out!

So, given this continual massive analyzing effort, can our own modest systems ever come close enough to the live event, cinema, bar or concert to make us happy?

Lets examine the research. I peruse the excellent white papers at Harmon Audio site (http://www.harmanaudio.com/all_about_audio/default.asp), as any tweaking audiophile should. From them and my reviews conducted for EnjoyTheMusic.com, I am under the impression, that given good enough components, we can indeed reach a two-channel audio nirvana plateau where further improvements are not worth the expense. The closer our system gets to a truly smooth (not necessarily flat) and wide on-axis frequency response, in our own homes, the more accurate we perceive the system to be.

This means good sources, connections, speakers, amps, room treatments, subwoofer, power conditioning, upgraded crossovers and equalization (9 components, without TV, signal box and video player). A strong, well built audio chain. Given the realities of the retail marketplace, many tawdry components sell for less than $500. The previous poster is right: we can get by inexpensively. Big ole horns with even a cheap boom-box front sounds great (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/senselessrambling/)! The retail reality is that most audiophile quality components are going to cost about $1K or more. In my review experience, auditioning components and speakers in my own home with the same equipment and music, many excellent components however, cost 2 to 3 times that amount, but they are as good as the best you can buy.

In fact, somewhere in the white papers, Floyd Toole does say that almost perfect cone speakers should cost no more than about $10K! Using my $1 to 3K rule of thumb, this means that most competent systems are going to cost somewhere upwards of $9 to 25K, plus or minus $7K for Tooles speakers! Furniture, like plush theater seats and sexy wall posters, are not included in this budget.

Indeed, the venerable Stereophile magazine surveyed their readers some years back and found that most general consumers spent about $6K on their home movie and music reproduction systems (which probably does include video components), while some tweaking audiophiles spend several times that amount. Surveys on this forum back this up though we do have some seriously passionate devotees lovers here.

The very best systems I have ever heard were three-four times that amount (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0902/deprecating.htm). If they had flaws, it was nothing that my brief experience could easily find. If listeners were blindfolded, these superb systems could fool them about whether the source was live or Memorex? (Big ole horns on tubes come awfully close in the mid and high frequencies to these money-is-no-object dream systems, for a pittance of the price.)

Of course, all of this is just a hobby. Yet some of us will set aside a little money every year, as I do, just to see what improvement the additional investment can make. Or more likely, as I do, just to inch a little closer to the $25K investment that we didnt make at the beginning. This amount is not too bad as hobbies go. It is on par with a new musical instrument, piece of furniture, boat, car or motorcycle. As a hobby goes, it is not just about getting there. It is also about the trying. Life, grasshopper, is about the journey.

So the answer is yes. Using good enough, although not necessarily wildly expensive components and covering all the bases from wiring to bass to room EQ - we can indeed approach a level of satisfaction.

And the answer is no. While we can approach a level of satisfaction, we may never be truly satisfied. Not on our small bank rolls. We cant always get what we want, but if we try sometimes, we get what we need.

[H]

[Duke Spinner]

Agree, Duke. I have run a variety of CD players over the years ..., and there is a dramatic improvement using a modded Jolida. More than just "little."

I would also rate the difference of going to a tube prepro - much more than just "little."

For the record, I am at a point where I am very happy with my system and currently have no desire to tweak anymore. Then again, I've tweaked plenty to get to this point.

We seem to share a lotta the Same Experiences, ..CJ......[]

well, I have eschewed the Sub thingy...... 'till the 'Scala purchase, anyways ...[]

no more Tweakin' neede here, either