Parrot Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 (Apologies to Artto for borrowing from his title.) In today's reading, I see that a Klipschorn will kick out 104dB with just one watt, and that we all run the risk of permanently damaging our hearing, going deaf, if we listen above, oh, 70-85dB. So shouldn't we be buying amps that are considerably less than 1W? I'm thinking maybe 1/16W. We'd save gobs of money because all these high watt (anything over 1W) amps have to have more innards to get the big power. And the tone would have to be TO DIE FOR, because there is always a trade-off (except when there is not) between quality and power, given a particular price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Well taking your topic seriously, Paul, There's no free lunch. If we look at the marketing that's taking place with these low powered amplifiers that is; less = more. More money that is, NO-ONE would be able to afford to buy a 1/16 watt per channel amplifier. The argument that that we pay for the extra power is just crazy. The reality is that it's the other way around. I can imagine me as a marketing guru. I could just pitch an angle that less power means MORE. More what though? Well, more TONE. That's what. Because we're giving the consumer MORE, then they'll have to pay MORE. Yeah. That's good... I like that... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 hmm. an iPod puts out no more than 30 milliwatts? http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/8841090/music_making_fans_deaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 Key sentence to me was "There's a limited amount of specific research on the effects of loud music on the ears -- which can result in hearing loss or the constant ringing in the ears called tinnitus." So when a writer doesn't have scientific data, he takes anecdotes and scare tactics to come up with his required word-length assignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 hmm. an iPod puts out no more than 30 milliwatts? http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/8841090/music_making_fans_deaf I know what sparked this, but I'll play along for the entertainment value. CODA, At 0.300 watts, the iPod has about 5x the 1/16th of a watt that Paul is suggesting. So, with that said I guess the ipod would be ideal. Plenty of power, with room to spare. HOWEVER, I have hooked up a sony walkman (watts ??) to my khorns, and although they played, the sound sucked and the volume was a bit more than barely audible. Maybe it was the batteries, or maybe the output just didn't cut the mustard. Someone had mentioned in another thread that PWK recommended a 20W amplifier. Don't know if this was a min. or max. recommendation, but that's the number that someone mentioned. However, in considering PWKs' recommendation, I think it only prudent to also take into consideration what the average tube amplifier was putting out at that time, and more importantly, HOW did PWK arrive at that magic number. Did he pull it out his butt (don't do it Fini), or did he calculate it based on the speaker components??? In all honesty though, I just can't imagine a low wattage amplifier (5W or less) being able to deliver the music the way it was intended by the artist, but since I've never listened to one, I could most definitly be wrong. In my house, we typically (95% of the time) play the MC60's at or just below normal conversation level, and I think the sound is to die for. At that level I have been able to distinguish differences as subtle as changing/rolling a 12AU7 tube. Which by the way, my new favorite of the 12AU7 phase splitters are the 1950's RCA Blk Long plates. They sound better (to me) than the Mullards or Telefunkens or Bugle Boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Well I am about to put a review down on the Altmann BYOB AMP http://www.mother-of-tone.com/byob.htm. When you listen to this tiny little wonder it will change your views about BIG and SS. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 2, 2006 Author Share Posted December 2, 2006 Having an old corroded car battery in the living room is really going to strain the WAF for a lot of fellows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Paul, In my small bedroom (10x12) which I also use as a music listening room, my Moondogs output about 90dB at 75% volume (without audible distortion) on my Heresies 4 feet from my listening position. That is LOUD! But really it sounds more like 110dB. So yes small SET amps is pretty powerful for me. BTW, this one is pretty funny! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSDFzg8_Wfg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
consistent Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 The new batteries of today (see the Optima Red) last 10 years or more and they don't leak or need a 'refill'. Just give 'em a charge every know and then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 In all honesty though, I just can't imagine a low wattage amplifier (5W or less) being able to deliver the music the way it was intended by the artist, but since I've never listened to one, I could most definitely be wrong. In my house, we typically (95% of the time) play the MC60's at or just below normal conversation level, and I think the sound is to die for. Gilbert, You know how little power you are using to play at that volume? My Moondogs could do that with ease as well. And the sound is also to die for (please note, I am not saying you will want to die rather than listen to the Moondogs). The best things for you would to find someone who could bring over some good low power amps. In iPod won't cut it. The quality isn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 "deliver the music the way it was intended by the artist" Don't you guys ever get tired about using cliche over cliche? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 i smell a troll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Well I am about to put a review down on the Altmann BYOB AMP http://www.mother-of-tone.com/byob.htm. When you listen to this tiny little wonder it will change your views about BIG and SS. Cheers EUR 750 and batteries not included [] Kudret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 From what I've heard about the BYOB, this will likely be my "next" frontier - AC free - "off the grid". I've read that this technique (battery operated) is just DA BOMB for clean, high end audio - those who have tried it rave about it. Sounds VERY intriguing. But admittedly, it's not a good time to be making purchases from USD to Euro - exchange rate stinks right now. But this is now in the "memory file". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 As much as 95dB through my 91dB sensitive Triangles driven with my 8 WPC 300B amp in my little 12 x 13.5 room is plenty loud for me, although at dynamic peaks at these high levels, pretty much all of my amp's 8 watts will be used up. The 97dB efficient RB-75s I'll soon be aquiring should help reduce the amount of power needed at these levels...they're not Klipschorns, but they'll do in grand style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I would not want a living room with ceilings only 6ft high.(claustrophobic perhaps) True I am only 5'11, but that does not give me that much room for livin does it? Not my idea of a living room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Well taking your topic seriously, Paul, There's no free lunch. If we look at the marketing that's taking place with these low powered amplifiers that is; less = more. More money that is, NO-ONE would be able to afford to buy a 1/16 watt per channel amplifier. The argument that that we pay for the extra power is just crazy. The reality is that it's the other way around. I can imagine me as a marketing guru. I could just pitch an angle that less power means MORE. More what though? Well, more TONE. That's what. Because we're giving the consumer MORE, then they'll have to pay MORE. Yeah. That's good... I like that... [] Whoa. So thats where this is going. Hell, why not just build 1/100,000,000,000,000,000,000 watt amplifiers and no one could afford it. Private equity will have make big deals to aquire enough money for one. (your hear that Carlyle Group?) But wait! We need TWO of these, one for each channel. OH %$@#! Home theater. SEVEN CHANNELS. This $&^% better sound really $%#*~&%$ GREAT!!!!! Great perspective edwinr! Reminds me of what my biology teacher told us in college the first day of class. His definition of a PHD: "A PHD. is someone who learns more and more, about less and less, until he or she knows all there is to know, about absolutely nothing!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Without SET the world ain't nothing! ================= BS=Bull Sh*t MS=More Sh*t PhD=Piled high Dried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 Without SET the world ain't nothing! Isn't that a mite extreme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Without SET the world ain't nothing! Isn't that a mite extreme? Yes it is! - He should have said the 'Audio World' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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