Owner's Report - The First Hundred Days of Jubilee Ownership

[Bill W.]

Heck... 2 years ago when people heard the single Jubilee in the corner (the trip to Hope that induced Mike & I to buy them), everyone was mouth watering at how they sounded... well... we auditioned them with some QSC or Crown amps (I think), AND as I understand it, something like a $75 Emerson CD player that simply can't be accused of being "audiophile" yet it left everyone that I'm aware of, walking out of that room just shaking their head, impressed with what they heard.

I think I remember that thing being a $39 Emerson CD player! Clearly the speakers are where the action is when it comes to big performance gains.

[Arky]

Yeah, don't overstate Roy's Emerson.[]

[Coytee]

I didn't want to humiliate his cd player... I mean..how ironic is it that out of the "kitchen" of cheap Emerson cd players, PA amps and a classy couch... emerges a creation like the Jubilees [Y]

And Roy DOES have a classy couch!! [^o)] [^o)]

[wallflower]

So I'm curious.... Could you hear differences with your Khorns when you switched out different upstream components?

[WMcD]

"There were some change outs of various amps. All were of high quality. I dare say that there was not any change in quality of reproduction based on the electronics."

By this description do you mean to imply that regardless of electronics the Jubilees sounded the same? If so, that would seem quite odd. I've heard a lot high quality amps and while many sounded excellent, they all provided some type of different sonic characteristic. Please explain.

The amp thing in general is quite controversial.

I may have posted an article a long time ago about Quad amps. These were solid state and tube. The designer compared the input to the output by a subtraction process. No difference could be found. Distortion should have popped out. It did not. There was also a test of switching between the solid state and tube using relays. No difference could be heard.

One magazine writer ageeded to attend the demonstration at first and then backed out on the excuse that the relay contacts were not gold plated. it was pretty much an early version of what goes on with ABX tests. If some human fails the test, they sometimes say the test is unfair.

I think it is pretty obvious that there is more than one way to build an accurate amplifier. But if two amps are accurate to a reasonable degree, they should sound the same. Also, it should be only inaccurate amps which sound different. These last two statements, I expect, drive amp fans crazy.

In any event, I didn't hear any difference. Maybe Golden Ears can.

Gil

[mikebse2a3]

I really appreciate all the comments about Jubilee speakers!

It seems there are a lot of comments about dynamics, low distortion, bass response, etc..., however I haven't noticed comments about the tonal character of instruments (e.g. the sound of a Fender Stratocaster on a Fender Twin Reverb amp, or a Gibson Les Paul on a Marshall Stack, or a 1936 Martin D-28, or a 1923 Gibson Lloyd Loar mandolin, or a Steinway Grand Piano, etc...). I've realized that electronics play a large roll in providing a natural or "real" sense of the tone and character of these particular instruments. Can the Jubilee owners speak to the unique characteristics that the combination of Crown SS gear and Jubilees provide in this regard?

Thanks!

Hi wallflower

You've asked good questions but I'm not sure how I (as a Jubilee owner) could best answer them for you. I'm not a musician or someone who has studied the sounds of different instruments to give a comparison like you have asked for.

What I can tell you is on very good recordings where the detail is captured to allow someone to hear these characteristics I'm positive it is available. I have no problem distinguishing similar instruments from each other with their different tunings and tonality. On good recordings the body of instruments like guitars for example can easily be heard along with the natural decay of the notes from the instruments themselves are easily discerned.

I can clearly focus in on individual Vocals and Instruments like for example Buddy Guy's playing on Muddy Waters Folk Singer for instance and marvel at his talent and ways of playing the notes at that time compared to his more rescent recording ( Blues Singer ) which is one of my all time favorite performances and recordings.

Very good Piano recordings are reproduced as well as I have ever heard and what really stands out to me is that the piano always sounds complete with detail and clarity and the artist's emotion and style of playing the notes are easily discerned across the whole instrument's range.

Vocals! now this is where I live. Vocals male and female are among the best reproduced I have ever heard and to hear several vocalist or a group of singers manitain each individuals charateristics with clarity and tonality so effortlessly from quite to very loud is probably what I respect the most about the Jubilee. One of my current favorite recordings for vocals is BB King and Eric Clapton (Riding with the King) and to hear BB King really letting it out just moves me every time I hear it. So I guess I would sum vocals reproduction up as, on really good recordings of artist you enjoy the Male and Female Vocals are really reproduced naturally and with the details reproduced that will move you emotionaly.

As with any high resolution system the Jubilee will easily let you hear the mistakes and bad choices made in poor recordings.

You asked about hearing the differences in equipment used with the Jubilee and I personelly use an Active EV DX38 Crossover with Cary CAD 2A3 P/P Tube Amp on the LF Horn and a modified AES SE-1 2A3 Single Ended Tube Amp for the HF Horn for my system. I have also listened to the Crown Equipment(very good sound with a great price to performance ratio) mentioned before as well as other tube amps with the Jubilee both with active and passive crossovers. I personely prefer the Active with my Tube Amps setup and yes you can hear the differences with any of these setups. What I wouldn't try to tell anyone is which is best because I believe that for many reasons that really does come down to personel taste.

I want to add a couple of other observation about the Jubilee/K402 system. It's a two way that doesn't sound like a two way! This system sounds like it sings with One Voice! If you have ever heard the Quad ESL 63 USA then you will have an idea of what I mean.

The system also has what best I would describe as a naturally large sound. If you listen to the Jubilee in direct comparison to the KHorn for example it just has a larger soundstage(presence) for a lack of better words to describe this effect and you immediately recognize it as more natural and accurate. This effect is similar to how the Khorn sounds in comparison to the other Heritage models if that puts it in some common context to help explain what I'm describing.

mike tn[]

[Coytee]

ditto to most of what Mike said

[wallflower]

Mike,

Thanks for the thoughtful response!

As someone that plays music I'm very familiar with the instruments previously mentioned and I pay particular attention to how accurately they're reproduced. My experiences have led me to the conclusion that speakers do have an enormous impact on our perception of the music we listen to, but the upstream electronics also play a major role in imparting a sense of accurateness to the tonality of instruments. Without proper tonality coming from the electronics, I don't believe the speaker can do anything to make up for that sound (or lack there of).

I'm glad to know that electronics do impart different characteristics to the sound produced with Jubilees. Judging from other comments, I was beginning to believe that Jubilees have a "life of their own" and thus no matter what feeds them they sound the same, which just didn't (and doesn't) make any sense. Thanks for the clarification!

[mikebse2a3]

Hey wallflower

So what electronics have you found to give you the most realistic reproduction and in what way was it more accurate?

mike tn[]

[DrWho]

It seems there are a lot of comments about
dynamics, low distortion, bass response, etc..., however I haven't
noticed comments about the tonal character of instruments (e.g. the
sound of a Fender Stratocaster on a Fender Twin Reverb amp, or a Gibson
Les Paul on a Marshall Stack, or a 1936 Martin D-28, or a 1923 Gibson
Lloyd Loar mandolin, or a Steinway Grand Piano, etc...). I've realized
that electronics play a large roll in providing a natural or "real"
sense of the tone and character of these particular instruments. Can
the Jubilee owners speak to the unique characteristics that the
combination of Crown SS gear and Jubilees provide in this
regard?

I think what is often meant by "low distortion"
is that the speakers are imparting much less of their own sonic
signature, which means less masking of the different tonalities of
different instruments. In other words, stuff sounds more like it's
supposed to...Were you looking for specific examples, or were you just
wondering if it wasn't all about being clean at loud levels?

As far as amps, I feel there is absolutely an
audible difference when different amps are being used, but the
magnitude of that difference is much smaller compared to the magnitude
of difference imparted by the speakers themeselves.

Maybe I got
lucky, but the last time I listened to a bunch of amps powering
Jubilees
I made sure I didn't know which side had which amp and even closed
my eyes so that blinking lights wouldn't fake me out either...everytime
I was able to identify which amp was which. Heck, I was even able to
distinguish between Crown and QSC (I've long held a bias for Crown, but
was kinda interested to see if I was tricking myself). One of these
days I'd like to do some formal blind ABX
testing, mostly because of all the experiments indicating that a
difference shouldn't be heard...

With that in mind, it seems to
me that the differences between amps become less dramatic when the
quality of the speakers increase. I suppose it might make sense if one
believes that there are thresholds of audibility for different types of
distortions...like if your speakers are a touch on the harsh side and
you
throw on a harsh sounding amplifier, then the problem is going to
compound. If you get rid of the harshness from the speakers, there is a
chance that the
harshness from the amplifier alone isn't enough to cross that threshold
of audibility. That's not to say that the distortion of the Jubilee is
inaudible, but compared to other speakers (like the Khorn), the
difference is far from subtle.

In other words, I hear bigger differences between amps on the Khorns than I do on the Jubilees.

I think I can see where your concern is coming from though. When
6foot8 purchased the first pair of Jubilees (he went with a 3-way), I
remember thinking that the K402 was a "PA horn" and designed
for throwing the sound a long distance. I have since realized that I
was sorely mistaken and that it's quite the opposite situation with the
K402. But when you see people throwing "PA amps" at the speakers, I can
understand that it's hard to think they're not just interested in crazy
SPL. The avid anti-horn crowds have used this argument all the time,
and perhaps they're justified a bit too because there's a lot of bad
horns on the market (especially in the PA world). However, a good horn
is a good horn...and the K402 is outstanding, especially in a small
home environment - you just gotta hear it to believe it.

The biggest reason that people have been using the Crown XTi is
because the benefits of an active crossover far outweigh the typical
compromises that might otherwise be associated with "non-audiophile
amps". I think it's been mentioned already, but the difference is night
and day on vocals. People are not going with the XTi's because of their
power handling...they just happen to be the cheapest way to get an
active crossover with very decent sounding amps. The XTi's also offer
48dB/octave which surprisingly sounds a lot cleaner than the
24dB/octave offered by the EV Dx38. The steeper slopes clear up the
depth of the soundstage and help isolate the instruments from each
other - in other words, less blurring and it's easier to concentrate on
the individual parts in the music.

Just to put it into perspective, you can get a pair of XTi's for
under $1k, which is less than the cost of passive crossovers and less
than the cost of an EV Dx38...and with the latter two options you still
need an amp, or two amps if you're going active. You could throw the
best amp(s) with the best crossovers at the Khorn, but it'll be cheaper
to buy Jubs with a pair of XTi's and you'll still end up with
significantly better sound. Would the Jubilee sound better with a
better crossover and better amplification? Absolutely, but it always
comes back down to your budget...and whatever other constraints that
might be present.

Btw,
I don't mean to imply that the XTi is a bad amp at all...in fact, they
sound very good. If you do a little homework, you'll notice that a lot
of high-end custom theater installers have been using banks of XTi's
for dedicated rooms and usually ignoring the DSP sections...

[Bill W.]

I suppose it might make sense if one believes that there are thresholds of audibility for different types of distortions...like if your speakers are a touch on the harsh side and you throw on a harsh sounding amplifier, then the problem is going to compound. If you get rid of the harshness from the speakers, there is a chance that the harshness from the amplifier alone isn't enough to cross that threshold of audibility.

Doc,

The compounding effect you are describing here with amps and speakers is similar to what I described with many marginal or older recordings sounding better on the Jubilees than the Klipschorns. If you apply this effect to the combined frequency response errors of the recording + the speaker system then the resulting output may cross that obvious threshold of audibility territory and tip the scale significantly. For some material, this overshadows the "more revealing speaker makes it sound worse" characteristic that we generally concede.

[Chris A]

...I've realized
that electronics play a large roll in providing a natural or "real"
sense of the tone and character of these particular instruments...

1) ...As far as amps, I feel there is absolutely an
audible difference when different amps are being used, but the
magnitude of that difference is much smaller compared to the magnitude
of difference imparted by the speakers themselves...it seems to
me that the differences between amps become less dramatic when the
quality of the speakers increase..I hear bigger differences between amps on the Khorns than I do on the Jubilees...

2) ...The XTi's also offer
48dB/octave which surprisingly sounds a lot cleaner than the
24dB/octave offered by the EV Dx38. The steeper slopes clear up the
depth of the soundstage and help isolate the instruments from each
other - in other words, less blurring and it's easier to concentrate on
the individual parts in the music...

3) ...You could throw the
best amp(s) with the best crossovers at the Khorn, but it'll be cheaper
to buy Jubs with a pair of XTi's and you'll still end up with
significantly better sound...

I've taken the liberty of quoting some of Mike B's text. Items "1)" and "3)" above say to me, "have you heard the K-402/K-69 two-way Jubilees in a realistic (home-simulating) setting?" You might not be as concerned with amplifiers after this experience.

The second quote is very interesting. Having the ability to change crossover settings on the fly through use of active crossovers really highlighted the importance of this often overlooked area.

[Deang]

!

[jacksonbart]

nice write up. I wish I had a room large enough.

[Arky]

nice write up. I wish I had a room large enough.

That nice room you posted would work just fine. I wish I had the money.

[jacksonbart]

Thank you, but its that nice small room. No I would think you would want at least 16 feet across and another 20 plus long.

[Mike Lindsey]

Yeah, I'm wondering if my room is big enough. It's 16' x 15', and open to the kitchen on the 15' side. If I could work it they would go on the 16' wall.

Mike

[Chris A]

Thank you, but its that nice small room. No I would think you would want at least 16 feet across and another 20 plus long.

[Just remember that I hesitated to reply based on my regard for your bank account (or future lack thereof)]--

I remember comments on one of these threads about "How big of a room do I need for Khorns?". I also recall the consensus was that they (Khorns) would sound very good in just about any room. I suppose that when the room gets small enough that you're left and right ears are each inside the mouth of a K-402 horn, then that room might be a little too small... One could staple the bass traps to the ceiling, assuming that you wouldn't bang your head on them when playing Guitar Hero. [H]

Chris

[Chris A]

Yeah, I'm wondering if my room is big enough. It's 16' x 15', and open to the kitchen on the 15' side. If I could work it they would go on the 16' wall.

Mike

Based on my setup and the pleasant experiences I've recently had, I would agree. I assume that your ceiling is flat(?).

Chris

[Mike Lindsey]

Ceilings are 9.5' and are flat.

Mike