Guest " " Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 " IE you order the driver n horn from Klipsch " is that even possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I would certainly be interested in a passive design for the k-510/ La Scala as well. A schematic would suffice, and I wouldn't mind shelling out for a well thought out design. hmmmmm, may be possible. in Christ, because of Gods' grace, roy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I too would be very interested in this posibility for a jubscala with passive crossovers. Great for center channel duty. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blvdre Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Sounds like a nibble.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Or get Martinelli to make a large wood copy of the first Tracktrix horn like the one in the Paul Klipsch/Jubilee photo. How dare you even propose such an idea............that would mean that the top end would not be "Jub friendly...."[] There are simply no other options out there so hush.....[] Next, you will suggest an upgrade from the K69. After all, its not as though some of us know what that driver is out in the marketplace...[*-)] Have a great Superbowl day my friend. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Or get Martinelli to make a large wood copy of the first Tracktrix horn like the one in the Paul Klipsch/Jubilee photo. How dare you even propose such an idea............that would mean that the top end would not be "Jub friendly...." There are simply no other options out there so hush..... Carl if you listened to the K402/K69-A combination (have you heard them?) you might understand why someone would be very interested in using it when possible. The K402 is absolutely one of the most well controled dispersion horns with the widest frequency range that I'm aware of. I don't remember anyone claiming there is no other options but as far as I know all owners of them have a great deal of respect for the performance of that combination especially when price is considered. As far as other options there are plenty out there but the question that started this thread was about using a K402/K69-A with a Lascala and let me tell you I've heard it and that combination is very..very..good and with a sub that system combination would be absolute KILLER!!! Edit: Carl I also want to point out that the K402 has more going for it than the great dispersion control and that is it acheives it's control without the diffraction slot method used and the problems that method causes in the older CD style horns. Next, you will suggest an upgrade from the K69. After all, its not as though some of us know what that driver that is out in the marketplace... Carl where has anyone claimed there couldn't be an upgrade to the K69-A? I will tell you this, IMHO you will have to spend many $$$$ to make any change from it worth going to and until I try it I'm not certain of that either. Have a great Superbowl day my friend. Carl. mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Does Martinelli engineer the polars into his horns? Or is he just making straight up tractrix horns that happen to be pretty? I would love to see some polar data... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhendrix Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 It's been mentioned that a JubScala might be a stepping-stone to a Jubilee. From my point of view, the Jubilees are a bit costly, even if they are a great value. As well, they're just plain BIG! It's wouldn't be so bad if they're in the end of a room, but in my place you have to walk past the right speaker to get into the room, so the size (particularly width) would be undeniable.However, the JubScala could be a way to go. Here's my question: does the 402 horn/K69 combo work equally well in a vertical orientation?Turned on its side, a 402 would be roughly the width of a La Scala, so it would look more attractive than having it set up horizontally. If it did sound just as good, I could look into getting a set of La Scala bass bins, or just use my present Scalas and disconnect the HF section.The horn could be tilted down a little to compensate for the extra height.Any ideas or opinions? Pat, I have followed this thread with great interest from your original question. As one who owns both Jubilees and JubScala, I can assure you that the 402/K69 on top of the LaScala bass bin is a HUGE evolution from the o.e.m. LaScala. The JubScala will be the closest you will get to the Jubilee. The only thing missing will be the deep, tight, clean, low-distortion bottom octave that the Jubilee will deliver. As you have, no doubt, discovered from the earlier posts, the 402 is designed for "landscape", not portrait. The 402 will provide control that other smaller horns cannot do. It will also provide open detail unlike any other horn I have heard, including the Altecs and the original wood 403. I have powered the Jubilee and the JubScala with a Crown XTi 1000. Both are bi-amped with the EQ, crossover, and delay settings provided by Roy. The XTi 1000 can be purchased for a bit over $400 including shipping. The parts for the passive crossover will cost nearly as much as the XTi and won't provide all the delay and EQ that really make this speaker. Go for it, Pat. I am confident you will be thrilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Does Martinelli engineer the polars into his horns? Or is he just making straight up tractrix horns that happen to be pretty? I would love to see some polar data... I exchanged quite a few emails with Bill Martinelli last year. Vey nice guy. I would encourage contacting him with questions on his stuff. His biggest horn isn't pure tractrix. It startes off conical. Then exponential. Then tractrix I think. He never mentioned anything of polars and I would be surprised if he has information on it. He didn't say anything about the CD properties of the horn either. His guess was that the K402 would sound better on the lower frequencies...mainly because it is a bigger horn. But believes his horn would sound "better" than any for it's size. His "400Hz" horn (on axis?) will play from ~300Hz -20000Hz. He sent me a curve with that horn and the BMS coaxial driver. I'm not mentioning the above info to encourage going that route....but that is what I know. Again...nice guy. beautiful stuff jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I made the comment,,,, I would give an eyetooth for some polor plots of the 402 and 510,,,, Dean was kind enough to present them,,,, What???? are you guys BLIND????? at the lower end they are fine but when you get to the upper frequencies they narrow both horizontal and verticle,,,, Its too bad that ALL the plots ar,nt superimposed on top of each other. The narrowing is quite obvious,,,most horns trying for a wider bandwidth will show this problem,,,SO that when you sit OFF AXIS things will collaps,,,,Beamwidth vs frequency,,,,Directivity vs frequency,,,,one polor plot missing is the FRONTAL ISOBAR CONTOURS those would be interesting to see.....As far as the 69 driver its adequate if you EQ the pissss out of them,,, But what the heck the newer digital elect xovers can handle that.....Some of the people at the jube meet sitting off axis heard what happens if your not sitting in the LIMELIGHT of the horn....Remember below 5K that is the fundamental of musical intruments,,,above 5K will be most of the harmonics.... The Martinelli horns give very good coverage it too will start to beam (like most horns)....Tracktrix is not above this... That is why i still say some other OLD horns will (DO) outdue it and in spades...That why i am one of those still in reserve,,,,Roy tried to get testy with me on his comment " if its not tracktrix throw it away" I guess i was too much of a gentleman,,,, To tell him he was full of WILD BLUEBERRY MUFFINS and stuff it.... But that between Roy and I... George Ashworth and I both told Paul the error of his ways,,,, That is when Ashworth showed him the door,,, They later kept there friendship loosely intact ,,the gentlemen that they were. SSSSSOOOOO rotating on its side,, the 402 horns will give you even a NARROW poler plot at higher frequencies. Will it fly???? not without crabbing and scewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Maron, slow your heart down, dude. BTW, here is the data...for a farting babycheek tweeter. I'll try to dig up the smith horn data. http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/components/2404.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Here is a start - the JBL 2397 JBL Smith horn and their generic 2" throat driver. Toss a 375 driver on and I bet it will be much better. Plots by Mr. Widget have some dust on 'em. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3849 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Thank you Dave ..... But the Smith with a TAD 4001 or 4002 would be even smoother.... and all without EQing the pissss out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 What???? are you guys BLIND????? at the lower end they are fine but when you get to the upper frequencies they narrow both horizontal and verticle,,,, Its too bad that ALL the plots ar,nt superimposed on top of each other. The narrowing is quite obvious,,,Um, duh? Care to provide any alternatives with better polars AND less distortion? [^o)] All of those JBL diffraction slotted horns are either too honky or too shrill for me... [+o(]That is why i still say some other OLD horns will (DO) outdue it and in spades Can you name a few? I would be interested to go hear a few of them for myself... As far as the 69 driver its adequate if you EQ the pissss out of them Still blowing hot air about that? The TAD drivers are gonna need similar levels of EQ...certainly less, but it's not going to be dramatically different (I would wager about 4-5dB difference at 18k). In fact, show me any CD horn that doesn't require EQ...it is expected and intentional behavior. But really, EQ is not a compromise as long as it is minimum phase and the distortion is kept low. Though I dunno how important it is to keep distortion low above 10kHz, since the first harmonic is gonna be outta the audible range...certainly not something I'm gonna spend an extra $3k on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Uh oh, Maron, you're making controversial (and/or potentially upsetting) statements ...... You know what'll happen now. You're going to be out. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I have to ask why has the smith horn method not become widely used? In other words what are the compromises necessary to make it work? What happens to the verticle dispersion of a horn like this as frequency changes over it's designed bandwidth? Why has JBL and others gone on to design and use other types of horns if these were the best answer? So the Horn Eqs the driver that doesn't necessarly make it the best method to reproduce sound. The EQ used for the K69-A or any driver that would be used with the K402 isn't necessarily a bad thing and all keep in mind that the EQ is partly acheived by reducing the drive to the driver and not just boosting the response. Maron please don't misunderstand my questions because I'm really curious about these horns and would like for you to explain why you believe they might be superior. Also again I want to say no one as far as I know is claiming perfection with the K402 or the K69-A but to hear and spend time with this combination is a real ear opener especially for the cost involved IMHO. I would love for you to hear a good demo of the K402/K69-A and I would love to hear one of your favorite horns/drivers to see where your coming from. mike tn[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Uh oh, Maron, you're making controversial (and/or potentially upsetting) statements ...... You know what'll happen now. You're going to be out. Carl. Hope that made you feel better Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Mike, I think you will just have to make a trip to visit Maron to hear his setup. I like them for their aesthetic beauty, and have never heard them. Certainly a higher WAF than the 402. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Mike...Maybe you should change your Avatar from Dr Who to teachers pet...Your audio schooling seems poor on application...Maybe a career as school bus driver. I never mentioned anything about constant directivity horns....Yes all drivers could use some touch up, its allways wise to start with one with less problems... Diffraction horns can be used to great advantage....after all the Klipschorn has been useing it for over 50 years. The K77 is a good example of that. I havent heard you complain about the distortions there. We (Karrenbroch,, Ashworth,,Sharp,,Pollak,, Jastrom etc. etc.) have been personally complaining to Paul for years... give it up!!! All i.ve stated is that the 402 will also beem....I never stated that the 402 would sound bad.. the polor plots prove that the overall coverage is not perfect. and you cant EQ that out without changing the horn. Alot of us were shocked that the Klipsch Co. did not go further with the origional Tracktrix design that Paul stood next to...are you trying to say the long throw pro cinema WartHOG horn was a good substitute? It sure aint pretty.... Mike you can shave your legs but you aint pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Here's the polars from the original Smith, which looks rather crude compared to the quality level we can build today. This is from his original article on construction of the horn. The dotted lines are for a multicell horn. I wish the scans had been better. The Smiths are beautiful horns. I believe I have read that they are pretty much a 90 x 60. I'm also remembering that you can't get enough high end with the Smith, so you might have to do a three way, which is a non starter for all those who just got a good sound on the two way system. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.