dkp Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I have been performing my civic duty for the past couple of weeks on jury duty in a murder trial. No one, or at least not many, really desire to serve as jurors so I suppose getting picked on an interesting case is a consolation prize. The price was the amount of time involved at a very low compensation rate ($40/day plus 10c/mile). I must say that I have learned a lot and really appreciate being able to contribute to the community in this fashion. While we were unable to consider the penalty during our deliberations, I truly wish that Michigan had the death penalty and that we would have been allowed to submit this as our recommendation to the judge. The defendant in our case was a well educated man in his mid-40s (bachelor's and master's degrees) who has a life that sounds as if it went downhill very quickly. Short version: He killed a man at his home who was most likely his drug dealer with a 10lb sledge and tried to blame the crime on the victim's cousin and friend. Prosecutor's version was believable; defense side not at all, especially when the defendant (against his counselors' wishes) actually took the stand. This guy went through all of the motions including fake crying (minus tears, of course) and the whole bit. Not one of us believe him in the least and we were all very open minded throughout. Count one; murder one, guilty Count two; felony murder, we changed to murder in the second degree. This guy is going to jail for life and deserves every second of it. Links for those interested in reading further: http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/2008/01/former_inmate_implicates_man_i.html http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2009/05/trial_gets_under_way_in_2007_d.html If anyone is interested in further details of the trial, I would be happy to discuss the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Thanks for doing your duty, I'm sure it was educational. Many people would shirk jury duty due to the low pay, hard hours, or tough decisions. I did it once and considered it an honor. Good job! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 Great Job, Next to military service, jury duty is the highest service you can perform as a citizen. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted May 22, 2009 Author Share Posted May 22, 2009 Serving as a juror was definitely not something that I was excited about beforehand. However, after going through the process, I am left with a sense of pride for serving my own community in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 Did you talk to the attorneys after the trial? Did that provide you with any insights? Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 Did you talk to the attorneys after the trial? Did that provide you with any insights? Travis I didn't know you could do that, that would be interesting, thanks for serving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 22, 2009 Moderators Share Posted May 22, 2009 I didn't know you could do that, that would be interesting After the judge release you at the end of the trial you can talk to anyone you want, about anything you want, or not. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Good for you for doing the right thing. I used to live in a small nearby town and got called and picked for duty. During deliberations, we needed a foreman and someone said "how about that guy in the shirt/tie?" so I became the spokesman for the jury. Several years later we moved to where we are now, in the adjoining county. yes, I got called again! This time however, I didn't make the cut so I got to go home. My wife thinks its funny that I've been called twice and she's never been called once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laager Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I would like to serve on a jury. Unfortunately, it will never happen. As a practising lawyer I am absolutely barred from ever serving on a jury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I've been picked for jury duty 3 or 4 times but only 1 went to trial. I did consider it an honor and my civic responsibility and was surprised when the prosecutor and defense attorney both spoke with the jurors who want to after the trial. It was quite fascinating. The trial I served on was a simple drug charge made a bit worse as the defendant ran from the police and ended up within 500 feet of a school making the charge worse. We found out after the trial that it didn't matter a whole lot as he had already been convicted of more serious weapons charges as he had shot at a house violating his parole which is why the police stopped him in the first place. He told the police he had a gun and some oxy contin and then ran from the police. They also found some crack in his possession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I would like to serve on a jury. Unfortunately, it will never happen. As a practising lawyer I am absolutely barred from ever serving on a jury. Move to Indiana. The trial I served on there was a lawyer who lasted a couple of rounds.... she had plane tickets to Cancun or somewhere so they let her go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 David, God bless you for your service. Pretty tough situation, having the responsibility to make these sorts of judgements, but glad you took it as an opportunity for learning, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shmoe Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I was notified earlier this year, but never had to go/was not chosen. Good job David! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 I didn't know you could do that, that would be interesting After the judge release you at the end of the trial you can talk to anyone you want, about anything you want, or not. Travis T- that's leaving it pretty wide open for a JB joke..... M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 Did you talk to the attorneys after the trial? Did that provide you with any insights? Travis The jury was excused before everyone else (for our safety, perhaps?) so I didn't bump into any of them. I do, however, plan on writing them a short letter indicating my willingness to answer any questions they may have. I hope they take me up on it as it would be interesting to hear their perspective on things as well. We all got to know the Court Clerk fairly well as she took us to lunch everyday and escorted us through the building to the jury breakroom, outside for smoke breaks, etc and I spoke with her a bit afterwards. I asked her if she agreed with our verdict and she did but I also wanted to know something about the law that didn't get answered in a question that I directed our foreman to ask the judge. The defendant was charged with first degree murder and also felony murder. The statute essentially states that murder occurs in the course of a robbery. While all of us believed that he murdered the victim in order to take his cocaine and money, we also felt that the prosecution did not prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. However, the statute also states that a larceny occurs when a person's personal property or money is removed from them permanently. In this case the defendant at least took the victim's coat from his body (with intent to destroy the evidence) and most likely his pants and wallet too. Therefore, the defendant's actions did qualify for this portion of the statute. We got hung up on the wording of the law as it appeared that, in order to be guilty of this statute, the defendant's motivation must have been robbery with murder occuring in the process. Since we knew that he did not murder him for the coat, we could not come to a guilty verdict on this count. So I asked the judge whether or not a larceny occurring in the course of a murder falls under the same umbrella as a murder in the course of a larceny. I was arguing this point on behalf of three other jurors and wanted us to get it right. The judge came back with an answer that essentially instructed us to read the statute. We therefore convicted him not on felony murder, but the lesser charge of murder, second degree. I learned from the Court Clerk, an attorney herself, that murder in the course of a larceny and larceny in the course of a murder would result in the same charge. I was a bit disappointed that I didn't stick to my guns and force the judge to give us a better answer, but at that point he was going away for life anyway and considered it to be a bit more of a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 From your brief descriprion it seems clear that it was a case of second degree murder, and he was overcharged (when charged with first degree murder). This is a common abuse of our legal system, frequently commited by the DA. I have no problem with capital punishment, as long as the crime meets the Biblical definition (which this one doesn't). Murder trials usually cost in excess of $1M. The jury gets paid a pittance, so where did the money go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 From your brief descriprion it seems clear that it was a case of second degree murder, and he was overcharged (when charged with first degree murder). This is a common abuse of our legal system, frequently commited by the DA. I have no problem with capital punishment, as long as the crime meets the Biblical definition (which this one doesn't). Murder trials usually cost in excess of $1M. The jury gets paid a pittance, so where did the money go? I just re-read my last post and was not as clear as I could have been. He was charged with BOTH first degree murder and felony murder. We were unanimous very quickly regarding the murder-one charge. Our debate was centered around the felony murder charge and eventually wound up reducing it to second degree murder. Therefore the defendant was found guilty of BOTH first and second degree murder. I have absolutely no doubt that he is guilty of first degree murder. He very clearly and deliberately thought this out beforehand. The law does not specify a length of time between thinking of murdering someone and actually committing the act. He went into the garage to retrieve the hammer and came back into the house to murder the victim. I would be interested in an expansion of your comment on the Biblical prescription for capital punishment and your thoughts on why this case does not qualify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 While we were unable to consider the penalty during our deliberations, I truly wish that Michigan had the death penalty and that we would have been allowed to submit this as our recommendation to the judge. Murder is a crime, whether committed by a felon or by the State. No-one has the right to take a life. Killing killers to show that killing is wrong doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? It appears that Michigan, at least, realizes this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 If it wouldn't hurt so bad financially I wouldn't mind serving on a jury. Almost did once last year but we never even got to the voir dire stage before the defendant declined a jury trial. I doubt if I ever will serve with my current employment, almost ALL the attorneys in a 40 miles radius of my office is, one way or another, a client of my company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Our justice system is one of my big bugaboo's. Notice how ludicrous the trials mentioned here were? The defendants were guilty from the git-go but our justice system gave them their day in court. That is all nice except that their day in court costs us all a ton of money which is a wee bit short these days. They look to squeeze every penny possible out of healthcare but conduct these wasteful trials routinely. Though I appreciate the 'innocent until proven guilty' stuff I think it could use a rethink. I feel it should be 'considered honest until shown to be dishonest'. That would include these peoples own attorneys. I think they should all have to take the stand in their own defense. If they are innocent and honest then the truth should only serve to show that. But it seems that these days attorneys work to minimize penalties for the guilty or defend people that they know are guilty. If they tell their attorney they did it, then the case should be over. If they lie to their own attorney then they take they stand and sustain that lie on their own. If they are innocent then none of this should be any problem. My $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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