OT...Compact Pistols

[Islander]

Gamma ray gun, but it'll give you a bit of a burn, so be sure to use the skin cream they give you...

[Islander]

Of course. It would be silly of me to create a deadly situation - like knocking over someone's bike. I love life, and have no fear of death. There is no inconsistency there. If you look for danger, guess what....you will find it. If you look for peace, you will find it too.

If you need fear to keep you alive, you are already the walking dead. I wouldn't use fear to keep me from doing something stupid, I'd use love of life.

I think we're in agreement on the concept, but use different labels for similar things. Love of life does sound far more noble than not wishing to lose a limb or worse, but the net effect is to cause you to make the smart choice when the time comes.

[Colin]

I read this thread with alarm. I am shocked at the macho fantasies of gun fans. I am surprised at the number of people who think there is so much crime around them that they must carry a tool designed to kill humans with them at all times. Why would you even be any where near such situations where any thing like that might even possibly happen? (Why is there anybody still living in the Middle East with its two-thousand year record of violence?)

I don’t know any body that has ever been mugged, robbed or assaulted by strangers. I don’t think most of us live in those kinds of neighborhoods. I do know several once-married men falsely charged with domestic violence prior to their divorce! Yet gun fans love to spin the “shoot-out in the streets” scenario. British police don’t even carry guns and they see far more crime than all of us.

I was approached by two young black men last year in the middle of a parking lot. It felt very scary. I was ready to run them over with a van, but I did not perceive a life threatening situation. Had I been carrying, I am sure the situation would have been much worse – I might have shot one or both of them. For what? The petty cash in my pocket – the inconvenience of having to cancel a credit card and re-order a drivers license? The unbearable insult to my masculinity? (Yes, that is the real reason I would have been glad to shoot them both.)

Yet the scariest thing to happen to me recently was two young armed policemen pushing their way into my house in March 2009 without a warrant, demanding to see my roommate (who was not at home). Several criminal defense attorneys told me that this happens all the time. Think a gun would repel that home invasion? What good is such a fun tool if you can’t use it?

If I really perceived a physical threat, I would have motion sensitive exterior lights, spy hole, dead bolt, safety lock, big dogs, fence, Tazer, nun chucks, baseball bat, shotgun and pepper spray. I would get all those things before carrying a heavy, expensive, unusable weapon that requires constant practice for some macho “get to kill somebody for free” fantasy. Then I would move.

[jamesV]

I don’t know any body that has ever been mugged, robbed or assaulted by strangers.

You should consider yourself lucky for that...

I have been thru a lot in my life and see more then I some would want to. Sad thing is I was never in the military, it was all on the streets that I grow up on and still live to this day. Yes I would be nice to move but when you don't have money to pay the bills you don't think about moving. When your house gets broken into and the kid get shot and killed down the street, still can't move. When you walk outside your house and two cars are driving down the street shooting at each other, guess what still no money to move. It might sound silly but you do have to fight fire with fire. As long as there is gang activity in the United States there will be armed citizens. The guns that I have seen growing up would shock people, it is unreal the kinds of guns and the amount that they can get. Most of all the time frame that it can happen, a lot less then the back ground check that you have to wait for in order to purchase a legal gun, that's for sure.

For those that say this is not needed, try the old saying. Until you walk a day in someone else's shoes, don't judge that man...

James

[Islander]

And many of those gang kids don't buy their guns, they just rob somebody who owns some guns. The police really hate it when some hobbyist with an arsenal at home gets cleaned out...

[sunburnwilly]

Compact pistol, no thanks I want a big one,

I'm with ya there ! I'll take a 50 cal Desert Eagle over a handgun I can conceal . Home invaders/carjackers would wet themselves and drop to the ground when they see that barrel come out and I don't think it would have a problem shooting through glass . The 12gauge would be a good option in the home allthough I think I would use some big nasty slugs to give the perps a fighting chance .

[dkp]

I read this thread with alarm. I am shocked at the macho fantasies of gun fans. .

I would get all those things before carrying a heavy, expensive, unusable weapon that requires constant practice for some macho “get to kill somebody for free” fantasy. Then I would move.

I find these two quotes simply detestable. Assuming that any one of us who carries has some sort of macho fantasy about killing someone is about as far from the truth as one may get. Re-read the thread, Colin, and come back to reality.

[mmckown]

I read this thread with alarm. I am shocked at the macho fantasies of gun fans. I am surprised at the number of people who think there is so much crime around them that they must carry a tool designed to kill humans with them at all times. Why would you even be any where near such situations where any thing like that might even possibly happen? (Why is there anybody still living in the Middle East with its two-thousand year record of violence?)

A couple of points:

1. I have seen little "Macho fantasy" in this thread. I have read a lot of wishful thinking by those who seem to believe that crime is only in bad areas or somehow people always "ask" to be assaulted or robbed.

2. A firearm is a tool, as you stated. As such it is no more good or bad than any other tool. Were it a tool with out a use it would disappear like any other useless or out moded tool.

3. Apparently some people find somethings worth a fight. Hard for you to fathom, isn't it?

I don’t know any body that has ever been mugged, robbed or assaulted by strangers. I don’t think most of us live in those kinds of neighborhoods. I do know several once-married men falsely charged with domestic violence prior to their divorce! Yet gun fans love to spin the “shoot-out in the streets” scenario. British police don’t even carry guns and they see far more crime than all of us.

More points:

1. I am glad you know no one that has been robbed or mugged or assaulted. It is sad that you are in the minority, as most people DO know such people.

2. Beat it into your head, crime happens everywhere. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is not happening around you.

3. No sane person wants a "shoot out in the streets". Too bad what you want and what you get are not always the same thing.

4. Funny how since the Britsh people have been effectively disarmed, NOW the police seem to think they need to carry firearms more and more.

I was approached by two young black men last year in the middle of a parking lot. It felt very scary. I was ready to run them over with a van, but I did not perceive a life threatening situation. Had I been carrying, I am sure the situation would have been much worse – I might have shot one or both of them. For what? The petty cash in my pocket – the inconvenience of having to cancel a credit card and re-order a drivers license? The unbearable insult to my masculinity? (Yes, that is the real reason I would have been glad to shoot them both.)

Stll More:

1. If you did not feel threatened, how come you were afraid? In the same situation I would never have even considered "running them over" (please explain to me how your 4000lb+ vehicle is less deadly than my 230Gr bullet) nor pulling my weapon.

2. You are certainly good at keeping your head firemly buried in the sand. IT IS NOT ABOUT YOUR MONEY OR CREDIT CARDS. It is about protecting your LIFE which is in danger the moment some one walks up to yo and sez "Gimme your stuff or else..." just what do you think "Or else" means? They gonna give you a fuzzy rub? Maybe you want to hand your life over to the hands of a thief or worse, but I do not.

Yet the scariest thing to happen to me recently was two young armed policemen pushing their way into my house in March 2009 without a warrant, demanding to see my roommate (who was not at home). Several criminal defense attorneys told me that this happens all the time. Think a gun would repel that home invasion? What good is such a fun tool if you can’t use it?

Now I am confused, I thought there was no crime in your area. If so exactly why are the police searching your home? It is a normal reaction to be nervous around authority figures, but scared? Really? Unless you have something to hide. But that is your business.

And as a side note, I hope I never have to use my "fun tool". But I much prefer the option to do so over not having the option to do so.

If I really perceived a physical threat, I would have motion sensitive exterior lights, spy hole, dead bolt, safety lock, big dogs, fence, Tazer, nun chucks, baseball bat, shotgun and pepper spray. I would get all those things before carrying a heavy, expensive, unusable weapon that requires constant practice for some macho “get to kill somebody for free” fantasy. Then I would move.

All of which are tools to be used to defend yourself. At least one of which you listed are capable of deadly force. I carry a side arm. It is my choice and it is a wise one in my opinion and experience. It is most certainly not the end all or be all of my existence, nor does it defiine who or what I am. But it does say that I understand a bit about the realities of the world. And that I am willing to take steps to control my own destiny. Apparently others are happy leaving that for strangers to decide for them.

I find that concept disgusting and very very sad...

[Brac]

I was approached by two young black men last year in the middle of a parking lot. It felt very scary. I was ready to run them over with a van, but I did not perceive a life threatening situation. Had I been carrying, I am sure the situation would have been much worse – I might have shot one or both of them. For what? The petty cash in my pocket – the inconvenience of having to cancel a credit card and re-order a drivers license? The unbearable insult to my masculinity? (Yes, that is the real reason I would have been glad to shoot them both.)

I don’t know any body that has ever been mugged, robbed or assaulted by strangers.

I'm confused, were you robbed or not?

[winchester21]

I am amused by the folks who think that they can "move"to get away from crime. One of my elderly neighbors moved here form Philly to be in a safer and warmer area. Couple of years ago he was pumping gas at the local station. he was approcahed by 2 young thugs one of which pulled out a knife and demanded his car, hus money and his credit cards. He complied. Afte they got his stuff they cut his face with the knife, broke his eyesocket and several other bones in his face. After they got him on the ground, they kicked his chest in breaking a number of ribs nearly killing him. He spent several weeks in the hospital and now suffers from blurred vision, has trouble walking, and is afraid to leave his house. This happened in an area where the homes range form 750 k to several million. Welcome to Charlotte- baby. Being prepared does not equal paranoia or going about the daily routine in "fear'. Quite the opposite. I would serioulsy doubt than anybody on this board is looking for a free pass to shoot someone as part of a 'Macho fantasy". I find that idea very offensive. If the antis dont like guns- fine- DON'T BUY ONE . Nobody is forcing you to do so. But don't try to drag me into your fantasy world of believing that society is safe and that the government and the police will protect you. The 2nd amendment is there for a reason.

[Tom Adams]

I think this is great advise for people not wanting to carry guns, but I have seen lots on guys on COPS take the spray and keep beating the officer.

You may be right, but even a leathally placed shot can take minutes to actually incapacitate a determined assailant.

Just think, you provide your wife with a cute little stainless Walther ppk/s .380 (I had one and loved it, that's why I mentioned it), give her all the SA training you can find, teach her to shoot like Annie Oakley, and give her all the confidence in the world.

Now one night while she's walking across the parking lot leaving work, a man hopped up on Meth, thinks that your wife's car was the one owned by the drug dealer that is really a cop (in his mind), and he's got to neutralize the threat to his freedom to move about.

(snip)

Now, same situation, only this time she uses Pepper spray. Statistics have proven that 98% of all human beings cannot overcome the immediate eye clamp, after being sprayed with pepper spray. Even though he may fight through it, there will be time for her to disengage, retreat and hopefully gather witnesses and a possibility to call re-inforcements.

(snip)

Or to find someone who has a gun that can finish him off! [] []

I'd like to chime in with another angle. I own a couple of guns - a Ruger 7mm-08 with a Nikon scope and a Browning 12ga pump. As you might expect, they're mostly for hunting although I enjoy competition target shooting with the Ruger (I'll never make any sniper team fer sure, but I try). I've shot many times my Dad's S&W .357 and various handguns of buddies whenever I'm out at the range. The wife has shot guns for many years starting when her Dad took her hunting. Honestly, she's a better shooter than me - especially with the Ruger. Which is why I've told many folks that asking her for a head start would prove fruitless. Anyhow.......

I haven't and will probably never carry a handgun simply 'cause I don't ever see myself wanting to be that dedicated to the proficient use of one. However, I'm glad that there are folks I know and folks that I don't know, who are "packing" and just may well be the saving grace I need should that need arise.

As for dying....like Mr. Deneen, I have no fear of dying. If I did I wouldn't ride motorcycles.

Great thread BTW. [Y]

Tom

[Brac]

I am amused by the folks who think that they can "move"to get away from crime. One of my elderly neighbors moved here form Philly to be in a safer and warmer area. Couple of years ago he was pumping gas at the local station. he was approcahed by 2 young thugs one of which pulled out a knife and demanded his car, hus money and his credit cards. He complied. Afte they got his stuff they cut his face with the knife, broke his eyesocket and several other bones in his face. After they got him on the ground, they kicked his chest in breaking a number of ribs nearly killing him. He spent several weeks in the hospital and now suffers from blurred vision, has trouble walking, and is afraid to leave his house. This happened in an area where the homes range form 750 k to several million. Welcome to Charlotte- baby. Being prepared does not equal paranoia or going about the daily routine in "fear'. Quite the opposite. I would serioulsy doubt than anybody on this board is looking for a free pass to shoot someone as part of a 'Macho fantasy". I find that idea very offensive. If the antis dont like guns- fine- DON'T BUY ONE . Nobody is forcing you to do so. But don't try to drag me into your fantasy world of believing that society is safe and that the government and the police will protect you. The 2nd amendment is there for a reason.

AMEN

[J.4knee]

I am amused by the folks who think that they can "move"to get away from crime. One of my elderly neighbors moved here form Philly to be in a safer and warmer area. Couple of years ago he was pumping gas at the local station. he was approcahed by 2 young thugs one of which pulled out a knife and demanded his car, hus money and his credit cards. He complied. Afte they got his stuff they cut his face with the knife, broke his eyesocket and several other bones in his face. After they got him on the ground, they kicked his chest in breaking a number of ribs nearly killing him. He spent several weeks in the hospital and now suffers from blurred vision, has trouble walking, and is afraid to leave his house. This happened in an area where the homes range form 750 k to several million. Welcome to Charlotte- baby. Being prepared does not equal paranoia or going about the daily routine in "fear'. Quite the opposite. I would serioulsy doubt than anybody on this board is looking for a free pass to shoot someone as part of a 'Macho fantasy". I find that idea very offensive. If the antis dont like guns- fine- DON'T BUY ONE . Nobody is forcing you to do so. But don't try to drag me into your fantasy world of believing that society is safe and that the government and the police will protect you. The 2nd amendment is there for a reason.

I do not own any guns but the above is as basic and straight forward as it gets. We have the right, not a privilege or special option or allowance it is a right to own guns. The choice to own or not to own a gun or guns is a personal one. If you do not like guns or anything about them then your choice is simple, stay way from them and opt not to own them. But for crying out loud please quit complaining about the evils of guns and their ownership and espousing an unfounded paradigm you harbor about those who choose to exercise their right. And her is another tip if you see a topic you know is going to p!ss you off or offend your sensibilities do yourself a favor and don’t read it.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I am amused by the folks who think that they can "move"to get away from crime. One of my elderly neighbors moved here form Philly to be in a safer and warmer area. Couple of years ago he was pumping gas at the local station. he was approcahed by 2 young thugs one of which pulled out a knife and demanded his car, hus money and his credit cards. He complied. Afte they got his stuff they cut his face with the knife, broke his eyesocket and several other bones in his face. After they got him on the ground, they kicked his chest in breaking a number of ribs nearly killing him. He spent several weeks in the hospital and now suffers from blurred vision, has trouble walking, and is afraid to leave his house. This happened in an area where the homes range form 750 k to several million. Welcome to Charlotte- baby. Being prepared does not equal paranoia or going about the daily routine in "fear'. Quite the opposite. I would serioulsy doubt than anybody on this board is looking for a free pass to shoot someone as part of a 'Macho fantasy". I find that idea very offensive. If the antis dont like guns- fine- DON'T BUY ONE . Nobody is forcing you to do so. But don't try to drag me into your fantasy world of believing that society is safe and that the government and the police will protect you. The 2nd amendment is there for a reason.

Sounds like Las Vegas and southern California. You cannot price yourself out of it. You actually become a target by living in an upscale neighborhood, driving a nice car, etc.

[theplummer]

I am amused by the folks who think that they can "move"to get away from crime. One of my elderly neighbors moved here form Philly to be in a safer and warmer area. Couple of years ago he was pumping gas at the local station. he was approcahed by 2 young thugs one of which pulled out a knife and demanded his car, hus money and his credit cards. He complied. Afte they got his stuff they cut his face with the knife, broke his eyesocket and several other bones in his face. After they got him on the ground, they kicked his chest in breaking a number of ribs nearly killing him. He spent several weeks in the hospital and now suffers from blurred vision, has trouble walking, and is afraid to leave his house. This happened in an area where the homes range form 750 k to several million. Welcome to Charlotte- baby. Being prepared does not equal paranoia or going about the daily routine in "fear'. Quite the opposite. I would serioulsy doubt than anybody on this board is looking for a free pass to shoot someone as part of a 'Macho fantasy". I find that idea very offensive. If the antis dont like guns- fine- DON'T BUY ONE . Nobody is forcing you to do so. But don't try to drag me into your fantasy world of believing that society is safe and that the government and the police will protect you. The 2nd amendment is there for a reason.

Sounds like Las Vegas and southern California. You cannot price yourself out of it. You actually become a target by living in an upscale neighborhood, driving a nice car, etc.

Finally the criminals are getting smart.

Who was it that said when asked why he robbed banks, "Because that's where the money is."

[winchester21]

J4n- You are a gentleman and a scholar. We got off on the wrong foot a whle back over some issue on the garage. I apologize for my part in that.

[J.4knee]

Right back atcha! [], One thing have learned with internet forum discussions is things go wrong in odd ways for odd reasons that under normal circumstances would never go the way the do. My apologies go to you as well.

[dkp]

You macho gun-nuts need to knock it off right now. You're damaging our reputation with this little love-fest.

[J.4knee]

Here now you won't feel left out [{] []

[winchester21]

Speaking of really compact pistols- some of the dealers here are charging megabucks or the ruger RCP .380. the list is 325.00 and I am seeing some of the bottom feeders charging 500.00. I am not really a 380 or a Ruger guy but I would not mind getting one to throw in the safe for some future use. But not at 500.00. They are selling like hot cakes here. Waiting lists. Two people in my office have bought one.Took 4 months- I had to listen to them whine about the overcharging and availability every day. Might buy one in July if I see one at MSRP. The thing is tiny and weighs nothing.