Does Klipsch heritages need subwoofer?

[Arash]

what is your idea about putting a subwoofer beside heritage speakers?

I have a pair of LS and a pair of CW... I drive them using a VSX-1020K Pioneer A/V Reciever and they sound good... My Amp has a pre-amp subwoofer output... should I use Subwoofer?

How about Mordaunt Short 309W Premiere subwoofer with 150W RMS?

Details:

Premiere 309W

Frequency response	35Hz-200Hz
Sensitivity	N/A
Nominal impedance	N/A
Power	150 watts Active
Drive units	(1) 255mm long throw woofer
X-Over type	Active - variable between 50 - 200Hz
Dimensions (h x w x d)	370 x 370 x 370mm 14.6 x 14.6 x 14.6"
Weight	15kg 33lbs
Magnetically shielded	Yes
Available Finishes	Honey Maple Silver Vanadium

[Groomlakearea51]

"what is your idea about putting a subwoofer beside heritage speakers"

The question I always ask is.... Does the music source material normally contain those frequencies that either cannot be reasonably and effectively re-produced by the speaker.

Generally (for me...) for 95% of everything to which I listen - the K'horns, Belles and Cornwalls are more than sufficient. The LaScalas can be a little weak, per se., and the Heresy's are limited to ~45 Hz due to the design. Me? Primary speakers in the four rooms in which "systems" are installed are (1) K'horns + Belles, (2) K'horns, (3) K'horns + LaScala's, and (4) Cornwalls. Each room also has Heresy's (or JBL4312's) as "upper right and upper left". All the rooms are a "near field" listening area, and the bass is fine. With the exception of some THX movies in the living room, the K'horns pretty much take care of any bass issues.

That being said... for the living room (Cornwalls), I have been tempted to obtain a small 10" forward firing subwoofer to accomodate movies with special effects that need some more "lower end" to sound as they were intended. My favorite "test" DVD for bass is the U-571 movie. LOL!!!

[H]

[Ironsave]

Arash,

I have Heresy I speakers.

I use my emotiva sub with them.

As Groom mentioned; your music taste will decide how important a sub is.

I listen to metal and classic rock; plus other music that is bass guitar and drum intensive.

For me; a sub with the Heresy speakers is very important. (When listening to 50s/ 60s rock/ pop; not so much)

It really does make a difference.

I think Cornwalls produce much better bass; LaScalas produce tight bass, but not like a sub can; KHorns? Have never heard a set..... Forte (Extended Heritage) are probably the best bass producing speaker of this line ; Quartets (also extended) are reputed to be really good with bass......

The sub you have pictured seems decent; but it only gets down to 35 hz. (For only music; this is okay; if you want good HT; you need something that can approach 20 hz; at least 25 hz minimum).......

Keep in mind, I have never heard that sub or of that brand; so it could be decent or really really bad.

Emotiva has good subs for fair prices; but also Epik; Hsu; Velodyne and of course SVS all have competitive products that deliver good to great bass......

Hope this helps.

Good Luck.

[mark1101]

It's NOT "Does Klipsch Heritage (or any other speaker manufacturer) need subwoofers?".........It is "Does the listener need subwoofers?"

Any system can be augmented in several ways, a sub is one way.

My answer is YES...........and always get 2 subs so they can be set up in stereo.

Others definitely say NO............it's just a matter of what you want. There is no right or wrong about this.

[dtel]

One question please

With main speakers that do 34 Hz or 40 Hz in another case, I cross a sub at 40Hz and get sound from the sub does this mean there is info below 34 or 40 Hz on alot of music I listen to ?

Or is the electronics doing something with the signal ? if it the recording which I think it is, I want to reproduce it.

[Islander]

The sub you have pictured seems decent; but it only gets down to 35 hz. (For only music; this is okay; if you want good HT; you need something that can approach 20 hz; at least 25 hz minimum).......

I agree with that. With La Scalas, you definitely need a sub, because their "compact, portable" (by horn standards) size means they don't produce low bass. That sub will be just adequate for music without a lot of bass, but will not be adequate for movies.

I'd recommend a sub that will go below 30Hz and has at least 400 watts of power. However, if that's the sub you already have, by all means use it. If you're looking to buy it, I'd say save up for something bigger and more powerful.

[JJkizak]

I think so now that I have a sub. I never heard anything below 35hz before I got the sub. Now it's flat to 19hz.

JJK

[pzannucci]

I think so now that I have a sub. I never heard anything below 35hz before I got the sub. Now it's flat to 19hz.

JJK

The sub pictured in the post has a low frequency extension of 35hz not 20hz. Cornwalls can likely move much more air at 35hz that that sub.

If you are going to mate a sub with speakers and the speakers go down into the 30's (and the sub can only go to the mid 30's) than the reason you would use the sub is to off load bass duty from the main speakers bass drivers that may help to clean up the midrange (especially on two way speakers). If you do that then you need a very musical sub which typically means expensive.

Since the Cornwalls go down as low as the sub, the sub can add additional output down low if you think you are missing it though you need to make sure it sounds good and can keep up with the Cornwalls efficiency. Again, not an inexpensive sub.

If you are just talking LaScala, then a whole different story though still something with better specs and a lot more power (small powered subs are notoriously inefficient to overcome being SMALL ) would likely be of help.

[Rudy81]

After having added two RSW-15s to my Khorns, I have no doubt that Heritage speakers need a subwoofer to properly cover the entire frequency range. I normally listen to Jazz and Rock with a little classical music on occasion. In my case, I actively cross all my mains and can 'see', via the crossover lights, when signals are sent to the subs. Just about every piece I play has some content in below 50Hz. The problem comes in properly integrating the subs to your mains.

Although my knowledge on how to do it is limited, I suspect an active crossover is the only way to properly do it.

I no longer own the Khorns, but my DBBs use subs below 45Hz. I will never run two channel again without a good set of subwoofers. IMHO, the RSW-15 is fantastic for good 2 channel listening. They are very good down to 20Hz.

[smokarz]

short answer: "ABSOLUTELY"

however, it depends on the listener's preference as well as needs.

i had a pair of cornwalls and for music, i felt a sub (or subs) were not necessary. i like to listen to the CW in 'direct' mode. they had plenty of bass for any type of music.

for movies, i just don't think there are any speakers that can dig below 20hz and still provide reference SPL. even those speakers that cost half of my annual income.

with movies, you definitely need subs regardless of the heritage speakers in use.

but do keep in mind that there are not that many subs in the market which can keep up with the heritage speakers. and some members here built subs the size of refrigerator.

the speakers you linked, imo, is really a waste with the big heritage speakers that you have.

i just finished building a pair of Heresy clones, and that is being supported by 4 15" subs which give me flat down to about 10hz. and watching Battle Los Angeles at -18db causes the dishes to fall off the racks upstairs.

[psg]

I once walked into a store in Quebec City to shop for a sub. They asked me what brand of speakers I had, not the model, just the brand! I smiled and went along. with it Klipsch I said. For Klipsch it was their second room and a Mordaunt Short sub. They played it, softly. Very musical they said. I asked for a spec sheet and they had to dig one out from the back store. It also went only to 35 Hz. I said that maybe it shouldn't be allowed to legally be called a sub if it only went to 35 Hz. He argued that this was typical, so we went online so I could show him that the competition went to 22-25 Hz. This was over 10 years ago. I bought a Hsu STF-3 online after that and didn't regret it one bit for movies, but it didn't integrate very well with Klipschorns for music. They remained set to large. For those, you need a horn-loaded sub which I have since built. I think the CW would blow the Mordaunt Short sub out of the water!

[mustang guy]

There is a tapped horn sub for sale in garage sale area that would fit your needs. It is $400 located in Wisconsin. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/149697.aspx

[DizRotus]

There is a tapped horn sub for sale in garage sale area that would fit your needs. It is $400 located in Wisconsin. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/149697.aspx

Shipping that to arash in Iran would be problematic.

[mustang guy]

I should think you are right. Didn't know where he was. Actually, with very little modification you could actually navigate it there. [Y]

[DizRotus]

MG-

Your crystal ball must be in the shop.[] Arash made it known in other threads that he's in Iran.

You're correct about the possibility of slight mods to the tapped horn sub to render it seaworthy, but I'd be uncomfortable sailing a wooden sub to Iran.

Arash -

On a more serious note. Your audio options are relatively limited in Iran. If you have access to a subwoofer, if possible, try it with your LS and CW to see if you like it before you buy it. Only you can determine if you need any subwoofer.

[Arash]

First of all I want to appreciate all how gave me their welcome advises and send reply... This is because I love american and I have American Dream myself though I'm Iranian... tnx dudes

Needless to say I almost broke my neck to have my LS and CW... everybody keeps telling me "WOW" when they hear them and I can see envious shine in their eyes ... and I'm Proud of myself having the only Heritage Klipsch speakers in Iran...

"what is your idea about putting a subwoofer beside heritage speakers"

The question I always ask is.... Does the music source material normally contain those frequencies that either cannot be reasonably and effectively re-produced by the speaker.

Generally (for me...) for 95% of everything to which I listen - the K'horns, Belles and Cornwalls are more than sufficient. The LaScalas can be a little weak, per se., and the Heresy's are limited to ~45 Hz due to the design. Me? Primary speakers in the four rooms in which "systems" are installed are (1) K'horns + Belles, (2) K'horns, (3) K'horns + LaScala's, and (4) Cornwalls. Each room also has Heresy's (or JBL4312's) as "upper right and upper left". All the rooms are a "near field" listening area, and the bass is fine. With the exception of some THX movies in the living room, the K'horns pretty much take care of any bass issues.

That being said... for the living room (Cornwalls), I have been tempted to obtain a small 10" forward firing subwoofer to accomodate movies with special effects that need some more "lower end" to sound as they were intended. My favorite "test" DVD for bass is the U-571 movie. LOL!!!

Yes You're right... for the music the Heritage speakers are alot more than adequate but I wanted to match them a sub to make the sound nicer

tnx anyway for the reply

Arash,

I have Heresy I speakers.

I use my emotiva sub with them.

As Groom mentioned; your music taste will decide how important a sub is.

I listen to metal and classic rock; plus other music that is bass guitar and drum intensive.

For me; a sub with the Heresy speakers is very important. (When listening to 50s/ 60s rock/ pop; not so much)

It really does make a difference.

I
think Cornwalls produce much better bass; LaScalas produce tight bass,
but not like a sub can; KHorns? Have never heard a set..... Forte
(Extended Heritage) are probably the best bass producing speaker of this
line ; Quartets (also extended) are reputed to be really good with
bass......

The sub you have pictured seems decent; but it
only gets down to 35 hz. (For only music; this is okay; if you want good
HT; you need something that can approach 20 hz; at least 25 hz
minimum).......

Keep in mind, I have never heard that sub or of that brand; so it could be decent or really really bad.

Emotiva
has good subs for fair prices; but also Epik; Hsu; Velodyne and of
course SVS all have competitive products that deliver good to great
bass......

Hope this helps.

Good Luck.

I never heard the Heresy sound but I'm about to find myself needing one [Y] . I might start building a pair using Bob's parts because they can be used as "tough rear channels"

tnx for the reply dude

It's NOT "Does Klipsch Heritage (or any
other speaker manufacturer) need subwoofers?".........It is "Does the
listener need subwoofers?"

Any system can be augmented in several ways, a sub is one way.

My answer is YES...........and always get 2 subs so they can be set up in stereo.

Others definitely say NO............it's just a matter of what you want. There is no right or wrong about this.

you're 100 percent right... It's about the Hi-fi or Movie listening... you tipped me off and I went google about this and found it myself...

tnx dude

One question please

With main
speakers that do 34 Hz or 40 Hz in another case, I cross a sub at 40Hz
and get sound from the sub does this mean there is info below 34 or 40
Hz on alot of music I listen to ?

Or is the electronics doing something with the signal ? if it the recording which I think it is, I want to reproduce it.

The sub
you have pictured seems decent; but it only gets down to 35 hz. (For
only music; this is okay; if you want good HT; you need something that
can approach 20 hz; at least 25 hz minimum).......

I
agree with that. With La Scalas, you definitely need a sub, because
their "compact, portable" (by horn standards) size means they don't
produce low bass. That sub will be just adequate for music without a
lot of bass, but will not be adequate for movies.

I'd recommend a
sub that will go below 30Hz and has at least 400 watts of power.
However, if that's the sub you already have, by all means use it. If
you're looking to buy it, I'd say save up for something bigger and more
powerful.

Yes Mordaunt Short is a good manufacturer as rewards performance A for 3 years... But I doubt about matching them with Klipsch Heritage... I love to DIY a horn-sub... but I have no clue or plan and etc... In Iran rarly someone knows about horns... even whom their job is about sound and sound-making products... One once stated "horns are so freaking... they'll blow your ear and are harmfull" after listening the LS he didn't know what to say ... lol

I think so now that I have a sub. I never heard anything below 35hz before I got the sub. Now it's flat to 19hz.

JJK

what is your sub that goes down to 19hz?

I think so now that I have a sub. I never heard anything below 35hz before I got the sub. Now it's flat to 19hz.

JJK

The
sub pictured in the post has a low frequency extension of 35hz not
20hz. Cornwalls can likely move much more air at 35hz that that sub.

If
you are going to mate a sub with speakers and the speakers go down into
the 30's (and the sub can only go to the mid 30's) than the reason you
would use the sub is to off load bass duty from the main speakers bass
drivers that may help to clean up the midrange (especially on two way
speakers). If you do that then you need a very musical sub which
typically means expensive.

Since the Cornwalls go down as low as
the sub, the sub can add additional output down low if you think you are
missing it though you need to make sure it sounds good and can keep up
with the Cornwalls efficiency. Again, not an inexpensive sub.

If
you are just talking LaScala, then a whole different story though still
something with better specs and a lot more power (small powered subs are
notoriously inefficient to overcome being SMALL ) would likely be of
help.

yes that's right... the sub doesn't go too low... its bad

After having added two RSW-15s to my
Khorns, I have no doubt that Heritage speakers need a subwoofer to
properly cover the entire frequency range. I normally listen to Jazz and
Rock with a little classical music on occasion. In my case, I actively
cross all my mains and can 'see', via the crossover lights, when
signals are sent to the subs. Just about every piece I play has some
content in below 50Hz. The problem comes in properly integrating the
subs to your mains.

Although my knowledge on how to do it is limited, I suspect an active crossover is the only way to properly do it.

I
no longer own the Khorns, but my DBBs use subs below 45Hz. I will
never run two channel again without a good set of subwoofers. IMHO, the
RSW-15 is fantastic for good 2 channel listening. They are very good
down to 20Hz.

tnx for the reply dude

short answer: "ABSOLUTELY"

however, it depends on the listener's preference as well as needs.

i
had a pair of cornwalls and for music, i felt a sub (or subs) were not
necessary. i like to listen to the CW in 'direct' mode. they had plenty
of bass for any type of music.

for movies, i just don't think
there are any speakers that can dig below 20hz and still provide
reference SPL. even those speakers that cost half of my annual income.

with movies, you definitely need subs regardless of the heritage speakers in use.

but
do keep in mind that there are not that many subs in the market which
can keep up with the heritage speakers. and some members here built subs
the size of refrigerator.

the speakers you linked, imo, is really a waste with the big heritage speakers that you have.

i
just finished building a pair of Heresy clones, and that is being
supported by 4 15" subs which give me flat down to about 10hz. and
watching Battle Los Angeles at -18db causes the dishes to fall off the
racks upstairs.

tnx for the reply dude

I once walked into a store in Quebec City to
shop for a sub. They asked me what brand of speakers I had, not the
model, just the brand! I smiled and went along. with it Klipsch I
said. For Klipsch it was their second room and a Mordaunt Short sub.
They played it, softly. Very musical they said. I asked for a spec
sheet and they had to dig one out from the back store. It also went
only to 35 Hz. I said that maybe it shouldn't be allowed to legally be
called a sub if it only went to 35 Hz. He argued that this was typical,
so we went online so I could show him that the competition went to 22-25
Hz. This was over 10 years ago. I bought a Hsu STF-3 online after that
and didn't regret it one bit for movies, but it didn't integrate very
well with Klipschorns for music. They remained set to large. For those,
you need a horn-loaded sub which I have since built. I think the CW
would blow the Mordaunt Short sub out of the water!

tnx for the reply dude

There is a tapped horn sub for sale in garage sale area that would fit your needs. It is $400 located in Wisconsin. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/149697.aspx

Shipping that to arash in Iran would be problematic.

tnx for the reply dude

I should think you are right. Didn't
know where he was. Actually, with very little modification you could
actually navigate it there.

Yes but it would cost me twice the sub itself

MG-

Your crystal ball must be in the shop. Arash made it known in other threads that he's in Iran.

You're
correct about the possibility of slight mods to the tapped horn sub to
render it seaworthy, but I'd be uncomfortable sailing a wooden sub to
Iran.

Arash -

On a more serious note. Your audio options
are relatively limited in Iran. If you have access to a subwoofer, if
possible, try it with your LS and CW to see if you like it before you
buy it. Only you can determine if you need any subwoofer.

Yes I'm from Iran...

tnx for the reply dude

[psg]

If you are handy with tools, I think that getting a 15" woofer shipped to you would be far less expensive than a complete subwoofer. Look at the F20 build to see if it's within your reach:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1329971

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/ported-subwoofer-build-projects/46923-f20-front-loaded-horn-build.html

I built a Tuba HT (the build thread is here in the subwoofer section) but I think I would have built an F20 is I had known about it for it's form factor.

[Arash]

If you are handy with tools, I think that getting a 15" woofer shipped to you would be far less expensive than a complete subwoofer. Look at the F20 build to see if it's within your reach:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1329971

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/ported-subwoofer-build-projects/46923-f20-front-loaded-horn-build.html

I built a Tuba HT (the build thread is here in the subwoofer section) but I think I would have built an F20 is I had known about it for it's form factor.

tnx dude for the links... what about making something like FH1 Peavey? I have a Pair of Peavey Black window 15" woofers in basement with no use

[Ironsave]

Arash,

Those might be the only Peavey Black Widows in Iran also..... []

I am not sure; but I think that woofer should be able to get down to at least 35hz. (As good or maybe a lot better than the sub in your first link).

You should see if you can find info about it's recommended enclosure type and it's ratings.

(Remember; two 15" woofers will not go lower than 1; they will just go louder and hit harder).

If you can build a sub..... it will probably be cheaper and more satifying because you did it yourself.

[JJkizak]

My sub is a Klipsch RSW-12 at 1500 watts and $1500.00 list price.

JJK