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tubesandhorns

Latest production Klipschorn vs Old and modded????

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I read with great interest all of the updates and upgrades
available for this venerable masterpiece, and am wondering how a new production
unit would compare sonically to a vintage item that has been tricked out with
new crossover, tractrix mid horn, 2” (BMS 4592) driver, etc. Anybody experience with this? By the time I buy a fairly recent used
K-horn, add all of the above, etc, I am approaching the cost of a brand new
unit.



While we’re at it, I see MDF is used in part of the current
K-Horn, any body know what is plywood and what is MDF?

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Your question seems to be whether to "upgrade" a vintage plywood unit or spend the same amount of money to get a new MDF unit.

In my opinion, the answer to that is a definite, "it depends."

The MDF vs plywood is, in my opinion, not an issue. The more important question is whether you're a tinkerer and tweaker, or whether you want "turn key" excellence. If the former, then hot rod a used unit; if the latter, then buy new and support a great company.

The BMS, Tractrix, etc. mods are "upgrades" that would be impractical in a commercially viable product, even on a limited production basis. DIY hotrodders will tell you the expense is worth it. If you're even considering that option, then you should probably go that route.

On the other hand, most non-audiophools would probably listen to stock new Klipschorns and the best customized, spare no expense (e.g. TAD drivers) vintage Klipschorns and only perceive that they both sound fantastic. If you want excellent sound, a fine piece of audio furniture without second guessing, go with new. If you live for the pursuit of DIY sonic superiority, then buy used and open your check book.

Good luck in either case. There is no wrong answer, just different answers.

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I don't like having the midhorn and tweeter next to each other. I would much prefer a mod that would allow the tweeter to be directly above the midhorn. I've been gone a while -- anyone doing that?

I don't like the K-401. Until Klipsch dumps that thing, I wouldn't buy a new pair of Klipschorns. I bought a new pair back in 2005, and within six months I was modifying them.

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one thing you can count on is that, if you have the best DIY speaker in the world, you still ask yourself "is that the sound that should be?" but an official product will give you a better idea if the sound will get better after modifying an original product

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Sorry, I wasn't asking what MFD is, I meant where is it used in the K-horn. They used to just be plywood and I was surprised to see MDF in the construction. I was curious if anyone knew where in the box and why... and I guess is it better or just cheaper for that specific application.

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Which is better a stock camero or a fully tricked out camero done by a shop with knowledge and experience? Which do you want is the question and what tricks do you like? Do you really want a Khorn when you can buy a Jubilee? I would rather (for the most part) have MDF than low grade fir ply . If you are taliking ply made from selects and better ply of birch or orher quality wood then I would rather have ply. A combination of the two works very well. I think that you can buy a set of Jubs for around 6K or so, someone correct me if I am too far off. There is no easy answer. You have to experiment to learn what you like and discover what compromises work for you. You can't ask for recomendations of perfection when you don't know yourself yet what that might be. Best regards Moray James.

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.....Do you really want a Khorn when you can buy a Jubilee?.......

That is great question. Do you want to be locked into corner placement only? What if you move and don't have available corners anymore?

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If I was in the market for NEW Khorns < I wouldn't buy the Khorns > I'd buy the Jube's in a heart beat

with the added cost being what both are , weighing the differences ,

a modern speaker design & with what coolhandjj said placement anywhere !

Not being locked into a corner placement & a widened sweet spot with those huge squawkers

a huge +1 to the Jube's

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Greg Roberts of Volti Audio discusses the bass of a Jubilee inspired bass bin, a Jubilee, and a K-Horn. They are all winners in his book, with the edge going to the K-Horn.

http://www.voltiaudio.com/jamboree.shtml

If you have your heart set on the K-Horn, and realize their placement limitations, my suggestion is to find a pair on CL that you can get for cheap, and upgrade them.

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I don’t think that I posed my question well
enough. Arguably, over the years there
have been deficiencies with K-horns that are addressed by DIY hobbyists- such
as the mid horn and the crossover. My
question was intended to ask if the current production addressed those
problems.


An analogy
might be the Fender Telecaster guitar.
Tele players over the years might replace the pickups with humbuckers,
or add a third pickup, or change a tone capacitor. Fender saw this, learned from it, and now
offer factory models that are outfitted with the popular tweaks.

So, I was
wondering if Klipsch has addressed the issues usually tweaked by DIYers, or
might one be better off buying a used pair and hot rodding the myself.



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A couple of thoughts here. if you enjoy diy stuff, you would love a pair of vintage Khorns. Anything 20 years or older is approaching the life of the factory caps in the crossovers.

There is one interesting change in the current manufacture crossovers. Older crossovers cross the K-77 tweeter at 6000hz. This is the same place where the K-55 starts to poop out. Newer Khorns cross at 4500hz and the mids are definitely improved. On my own Khorns, I didn't realize the K-55 wasn't behaving very well as it approached 6000hz. it wasn't until i wasn't hearing it that i realized it was being pushed farther than it could sweetly play.

Ordinarily having a K-77 tweeter play as low as 4500hz could put it's life in danger, but Klipsch now uses a 6th order crossover which provides tweeter protection at this frequency and is beyond my technical understanding.

I think Klipsch has improved the sound of the Khorn by making this change and the sound of a new Khorn is really good.

The sound of a vintage Klipschorn with fresh caps is pretty awesome on it's own, still crossed at 6000hz restored (essentially) to factory spec.

As you have picked up on reading the forum there are tons of mods using alternate crossovers, drivers and horns out there. Whether they actually sound "better" is a matter of subjective preference. Also the owners objectives are all over the map. There are poor man's rebuilds and money no object mods. For someone who enjoys diy my recommendation would be to buy a pair of vintage horns. If you've got the corners and the cash to buy new the sound is fabulous! No need to mod Khorns right out of the factory!

main thing. enjoy!

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So, I was
wondering if Klipsch has addressed the issues usually tweaked by DIYers, or
might one be better off buying a used pair and hot rodding the myself.

You are asking if the issues have been addressed? Not really, the crossovers have been modified to mask the deficiencies of the K-400.

Can the Klipschorn be upgraded to improve performance? IMO absolutely, but its no longer a true Klipsch!

Should you upgrade or purchase? I would and did upgrade.

Craig

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Greg Roberts of Volti Audio discusses the bass of a Jubilee inspired bass bin, a Jubilee, and a K-Horn. They are all winners in his book, with the edge going to the K-Horn.

Wow, OK [:#]

Changed to be nice

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Buy used Khorns and mod them as you go. Having said that, a lot of people buy Khorns only to find out they are too tall for their listening room given the size of their area and/or corner placement doesnt work. Another option would be a set of used LaScala's and a decent sub. This will outperform two Khorns any day of the week and will be cheaper in most cases.. MDF doesnt resonate or flex as bad as plywood and is sonically better....although many people will argue it and I must admit my ears probably couldnt hear the difference. However, almost all mega priced speakers being built these days use MDF for its superior acoustical properties.

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Greg Roberts of Volti Audio discusses the bass of a Jubilee inspired bass bin, a Jubilee, and a K-Horn. They are all winners in his book, with the edge going to the K-Horn.

Wow, OK Zip it!

Changed to be nice

LOL. So, you're going to make ME say it!?

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Greg Roberts of Volti Audio discusses the bass of a Jubilee inspired bass bin, a Jubilee, and a K-Horn. They are all winners in his book, with the edge going to the K-Horn.

Wow, OK Zip it!

Changed to be nice

LOL. So, you're going to make ME say it!?

LOL, go for it Dean! T

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Another option would be a set of used LaScala's and a decent sub. This will outperform two Khorns any day of the week and will be cheaper in most cases..

Subs may get lower but to do room lock and loading along with sheer size of presentation (especially when listening loud), a proper room and feed khorns will make you think twice about La Scalas and a decent sub. You will need a couple of very good subs $$$, not decent sub, to do the same. Not cheaper in most cases IMHO after having had 4 or 5 sets of khorns also La Scalas and subs. BUT you do need a good room and used is the best way to get your feet wet.

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Buy used Khorns and mod them as you go. Having said that, a lot of people buy Khorns only to find out they are too tall for their listening room given the size of their area and/or corner placement doesnt work. Another option would be a set of used LaScala's and a decent sub. This will outperform two Khorns any day of the week and will be cheaper in most cases.. MDF doesnt resonate or flex as bad as plywood and is sonically better....although many people will argue it and I must admit my ears probably couldnt hear the difference. However, almost all mega priced speakers being built these days use MDF for its superior acoustical properties.

I agree with this, I have a pair of Khorn bass bins. That I wish I would have started with the factory setup, but for the money I was able to use modified parts. As I sit either listening to my stock Cornwalls, and my stock Heresies I realize I really enjoy the stock sound, Since I will spend money on the Khorns, I will try some different upgrades. But knowing I am really happy with the stock sound, it might be worth giving it a try. Good luck on your journey it can be long but rewarding.

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