How to "listen"?

[ClaudeJ1]

I'm slowly getting my 2-channel rig setup and dialed in and like what is being thrown at my ears, but worry about the day one of you comes over and informs me that my system is crap when assessed by universal standards. I read comments by guys on the internet about such and such person taught them how to listen, but never anything further on what that means or how to learn.

Thoughts? Help? Suggested reading?

I know it's ultimately about what sounds good to me, but I don't want better informed guest walking away filled with sympathy and regret for coming out to sample my gear.

Create a sweet spot and always sit there when listening. If you do it with the lights our AND with your eyes shut, only your ears will work (I call THIS double blind listening). Do it with no distractions or external noise........just..........LISTEN.

For program material, it's good to have a variety of styles of music. Some with lots going on and some with just voice and one or two instruments. I have my own list of standard recordings and I have the test CD's that Klipsch uses. The trick is to listen to maybe about 24 different standard test songs over and over until you know them by heart. That way you will have your own reference standards deemed excellent by the experience and ears of others.

Is this a good start?

Maybe I should start a list......................lemmeno.

[Shakeydeal]

I'm slowly getting my 2-channel rig setup and dialed in and like what is being thrown at my ears, but worry about the day one of you comes over and informs me that my system is crap when assessed by universal standards. I read comments by guys on the internet about such and such person taught them how to listen, but never anything further on what that means or how to learn.

Thoughts? Help? Suggested reading?

I know it's ultimately about what sounds good to me, but I don't want better informed guest walking away filled with sympathy and regret for coming out to sample my gear.

Create a sweet spot and always sit there when listening. If you do it with the lights our AND with your eyes shut, only your ears will work (I call THIS double blind listening). Do it with no distractions or external noise........just..........LISTEN.

For program material, it's good to have a variety of styles of music. Some with lots going on and some with just voice and one or two instruments. I have my own list of standard recordings and I have the test CD's that Klipsch uses. The trick is to listen to maybe about 24 different standard test songs over and over until you know them by heart. That way you will have your own reference standards deemed excellent by the experience and ears of others.

Is this a good start?

Maybe I should start a list......................lemmeno.

Good post!

Shakey

[ClaudeJ1]

What I found over the years is that when it comes to Klipsch bigger is better. No Khorn or lascala ever competed with the sound qualities of a properly implemented MCM setup if you get what I'm saying. If you want more true to life "live" sound.......go bigger. Go as big as you can.

Your posts puts a smile on my face because it's true. You and I started our MWM quest in late 2007 as I recall. We sold our Khorns to get on the "big journey." I was certainly influenced by Mike Colter, JC, and Keving Harmon. They all had the Jube and Pro Gear Attitude. I felt a need to better the sound of vanilla Khorns with AA's that I had for over 30 years while I was too busy raising kids to bother. It was time and has been a fun journey that continues to this day. I hope to build my second bass horn and put them into service in a few weeks. This should bring my stack down to less than 5 feet.

Once I achieved world dominanced (over my city block) with an el cheapo-hybrid-horn-from-every-maker setup MWM 7-1/2 foot "stack," I immediately set out to take stuff out and lower the stack without making compromises. I told people that 1 MWMs bin per channel was enough, but apparently no one else bothered to measure the difference and took your advice instead of mine, since I see so many people use up space that could be used in a better fashion, IMHO. 1 MWMs an do the same job as two when you add subwoofers, I set out to go from 4-way plus Subs (5 way really) and lower my "stack" from 7 feet to 6 without any sonic compromises. My space is smaller than yours, so I can get away with it. So I can get rid of EQ in my Peavey FH-1 bins with EVM 15 L woofers, I designed my own version of an MWM that fits neatly into a corner and should't need any PEQ ahead of room corrections from Audyssey. But it will have a digital Xover, similar to yours, along with it'is own amplifier so I can control the voltage gain at the input.

So, relative to my quest to "downsize without sonic compromise" in a smaller room stand in contrast to the fact that I crown you the ultimate "MWM Animal," the "MacDaddy" if you will. I mean that with the utmost respect to what you have done. I will be out there with my stack of CD's before you know it!

Edited January 15, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[ClaudeJ1]

Try listening at low levels. Get used to it that way. Enjoy it, don't get obsessed with the technology.

Bruce

I currently listen at or around 85dB. Your suggested volume would be.. 75dB? 50dB?

For me, 85dB would be fine. Maybe most on here exaggerate, but that's usually plenty loud and I think you get to really hear the music and enjoy it when you live in that range.

I'm with Dave, it needs to be about the music. Great gear is nice, a lot of fun, blah, blah, but I want my toes to start tappin'!

Bruce

I'm with you Bruce. I use a Radio Shack db meter and refer to an app on my iPhone for a second opinion when listening..................all at 85 db, slow C. Peaks are usually 13 db above that on most jazz recordings, and, assuming levels are pushed UP and not down on pop recordings, I can tell how compressed they are by how many negative DB's on my receiver I need to turn down to. I'm usually at -20 for the dynamic ones and down to -30 for the compressed ones. This is after Audyssey turns down my mains to -12, so it's negative 32-42 DB from the full 100 W output of my amps, or about 10 milliwatts typical, which agrees with my RMS volt meter.

I always used to crank my Khorns to get to a "satisfying" level. As my speakers got better, I needed less and less volume to be satisfied, unless the alcohol consumption was up a bit, then I needed a few more DB to compensate. LOL.

Edited January 15, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[Mallette]

Keep a open mind. Sometimes cheap gear can sound rather good...it's just matter of trying it...

Thad, you got a great thread here. I went back and reviewed because it's so much fun! Found the above.

As I sit here, I am listen to a couple of Rat Shack LX5s I paid maybe a hundred bucks for use in an HT system in the 90s. They were surprisingly good used for modest HT use, but not something I'd want to do any critical music listening on. Used in near field mode (little over 2 feet to each, 3.5 between them) the sound is a good as any and I really couldn't believe they were the same speakers. Truly immersive, excellent sound field and imaging, and even the bass doesn't make you wish for more.

Yer golden eared, if the cost doesn't hurt it can't be any good, etc type will have shat upon my previous statement already. Doesn't matter, I'm listening to music and I am happy. Didn't get into this to impress anyone, just to hear great tunes.

It's all that counts...

Dave

[Boxx]

Listen to music. If something in the music draws attention to the equipment there is a real or imagined problem.

Dave, I have read where you have mentioned this in the past and I could not agree more.....

Edited January 15, 2014 by Boxx

[ClaudeJ1]

I'm the king of cheap gear, Mr. Malette. Used, refurb, whatever. More fun to limit your budget and still get excellent sound. Bang for buck, mon.

BTW, of the CD's you gave me at a Pilgrimage in Indy...........that piano recording of yours is the best I've ever heard.

Edited January 15, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[dtel]

Doesn't matter, I'm listening to music and I am happy. Didn't get into this to impress anyone, just to hear great tunes. It's all that counts... Dave

Exactly

After 40 years of trying different setups I'm done, just going to enjoy the rest of my time listening, my favorite part.

I'm really just here for the people, and to everyone Thanks, I would have never got to this point without all the help.

[Mallette]

BTW, of the CD's you gave me at a Pilgrimage in Indy...........that piano recording of yours is the best I've ever heard

Warms my heart, Claude. Thanks for that. Even that recording, done with perhaps 2k worth of gear is a demonstration of "it's a poor workman who blames his tools." I believe both recording and playback to be a question of accurate gear correctly deployed, not necessarily expensive gear. That was my first "serious" recording and I did it because I wanted to see why so many of the recordings I owned SUCKED.

I found out...it is about technique, not high end gear.

Hope to spend some time "have mikes, will travel" once I retire. It's even more fun to make your own recordings, the play them on your system. I want it ALL!

Dave

[Mallette]

I'm really just here for the people, and to everyone Thanks, I would have never got to this point without all the help.

Yet another satisfied Forum customer! This is the best bunch I've ever been exposed to on the web. As mentioned earlier, I drop in to "other" places from time to time but have absolutely no desire to stay.

This place is the BEST.

Dave

[Thaddeus Smith]

Good stuff guys. Looks like we're dusting off the holiday crankiness.

[mark1101]

For sale: MCM 5-way setup with TAD drivers, active crossover, McIntosh amps, 684 subs....CAUTION.....only plays loud....bigger, but not better

WTB: Heresys with DeanG PIO passive networks. Original alnico drivers and cast iron exponential horns a must.

WTB: Used Sonic Impact chip amp and power cube.

[Thaddeus Smith]

I thought more about my question as the day went on. I currently sit 6ft away from my (essentially) free Cornwalls, powered by a 15w t-amp, streaming music out of my laptop's on board dac with with expensive quad silver/copper vampire wire interconnects using a mono price RCA to mini jack adapter. As I discussed in another thread, I'm trying to find that point of diminishing returns as I upgrade, or don't, components in my system. The internet is literally cringing at the assumed sound, yet for the moment it's better than anything I've ever had. Solid imaging, although the near field setup does make you constantly feel like you're in the front row which can be both good and bad. Plenty of headroom, yet very pleasant at low volumes.

So in order to find gear synergies and know when to quit upgrading components I just figured that I would need to acquire a toolbox of critical listening skills. Does that make sense?

[Thaddeus Smith]

For sale: MCM 5-way setup with TAD drivers, active crossover, McIntosh amps, 684 subs....CAUTION.....only plays loud....bigger, but not better

WTB: Heresys with DeanG PIO passive networks. Original alnico drivers and cast iron exponential horns a must.

WTB: Used Sonic Impact chip amp and power cube.

Haha, smartass!

[mark1101]

For 2014 I plan to concentrate on ear treatments for headphones to help compensate for my mis-shapen ears. I'm getting outa speakers.

[Mallette]

So in order to find gear synergies and know when to quit upgrading components I just figured that I would need to acquire a toolbox of critical listening skills. Does that make sense?

Sure. However, sounds to me like you already have them...

Dave

[CECAA850]

So in order to find gear synergies and know when to quit upgrading components I just figured that I would need to acquire a toolbox of critical listening skills. Does that make sense?

Not to me. If you like what you hear, be happy. If you perceive an issue with a particular sound your system makes, work to change it. You don't need a critical ear to know what's displeasing to your ears Eliminate the characteristics of your system you don't like and your there. Too bright? Address it. Not enough bass? Fix it. Mids too hot, find a way to tone them down. Instead of trying to find the mythical sound you think your after, eliminated the sounds you don't like. You'll be home.

[Boxx]

Good stuff guys. Looks like we're dusting off the holiday crankiness.

Heck no... I'm still upset that I didn't get to see **** D.I.C.K. Clark's New Year's Rockin' Eve this year.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Boxx

[Schu]

Some people like to feel the music as well as hear it... bigger is better

[Gnote]

As far as listening skills go, I have no idea where I land but I'm too old to change where I'm at, nor do I care to ! I enjoy what I hear and that's good enough for me.

I must admit that I do get a sense of pride when people tell me that's the best system they've ever heard but I also have a friend who put's his hands over his mouth and honks like a goose every time he see's me because he likes to tease me about my horns and that's ok too.

I have 3 fairly different systems and I like them all! My MCM's are my favorite by far but so is primerib. I could eat it a lot but not every day, sometimes a hamburger sounds good (KG 5.5's) .I know they aren't as good but sometimes they just hit the spot.

But if I had to pick one I'd go big!

Edited January 16, 2014 by Gnote