How to "listen"?

[Thaddeus Smith]

I'm slowly getting my 2-channel rig setup and dialed in and like what is being thrown at my ears, but worry about the day one of you comes over and informs me that my system is crap when assessed by universal standards. I read comments by guys on the internet about such and such person taught them how to listen, but never anything further on what that means or how to learn.

Thoughts? Help? Suggested reading?

I know it's ultimately about what sounds good to me, but I don't want better informed guest walking away filled with sympathy and regret for coming out to sample my gear.

[Lemon string]

I think its about being exposed to as much as you can...... solid state, tubes, chip, different pre's or source direct or whatever. Over time you'll start to figure out what sounds best to you as you will hear something different in every set up. So then the question becomes what and where does my rig/room fall short. I've changed out a couple pieces recently and honestly I wasn't sure if when I got the stuff home there would be any real difference, to the point I could justify the expense. In my case there was, its been a fun journey so far and I feel like I'm closer and closer to what I am after.

[Thaddeus Smith]

Agreed. However, I've heard guys talk about "being taught how to critically listen" by such and such older guy and how it forever changed they way they approach the hobby, etc. Music is one piece of the pie, understanding gear is another, and critical listening skills seem to be that last piece. It's that last piece I'm wondering about where to get some foundational understanding or tutelage as I spend more time being an "audiophile".

[tigerwoodKhorns]

No reason to be ashamed. Some people just get it and others do not. You are just in the later category.

It comes very naturally to me. Been doing it all my life. When I was a kid it was really loud and I would run around the room and play air guitar to Led Zeppelin.

Then later I got some JBL's and would sit on the couch and bob my head up and down, mullet in full swing.

Now I am middle aged and kind of tap my feet a little. Maybe if they legalize pot I will go back to the air guitar again.

Post a short video of you listening and we'll all give you some pointers.

Here are some examples:

This guy is really good at listening:

But we need to start you out slowly. Maybe follow this example:

[Thaddeus Smith]

Sigh. Never mind.

[garyrc]

when assessed by universal standards

What universal standards?

Listening to various systems, especially speakers, can sharpen your ears. Listening to a great deal of live music, especially relatively close up can too. Noticing different mixing styles on the part of different engineers, producers, film people is good, too.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Sigh. Never mind.

My work here is done, I'm going to bed.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Thad, are you an outdoorsman?

[Thaddeus Smith]

Sometimes, sure.

[muel]

I think somebody posted this here but I can't find it... anyway it is an interesting story and he connects you with some good advice:

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue66/reader9.htm

It is surprising how a person can adapt and get used to sound that is really pretty bad! I think the imagination must pick up what the system leaves out.

Ever get to Atlanta? Go visit this guy and hear a reference for how lousy your system really does sound... BUT, take heart, you CAN make it better!

http://getbettersound.com/roomplay-reference.html

[dtel]

I'm slowly getting my 2-channel rig setup and dialed in and like what is being thrown at my ears, but worry about the day one of you comes over and informs me that my system is crap when assessed by universal standards.

I feel the same way, you kind of get set in how you like it to sound, so for whoever comes over SAY SOMETHING, show me what I'm doing wrong or how to fix it, I expect it.

I read comments by guys on the internet about such and such person taught them how to listen, but never anything further on what that means or how to learn.

I don't think I want to know, true or not I have heard it can be distracting, if it takes away from the enjoyment of the music no thanks.

Thoughts? Help? Suggested reading?

I know it's ultimately about what sounds good to me, but I don't want better informed guest walking away filled with sympathy and regret for coming out to sample my gear.

Well if they feel that way they should have nicely said something and tried to figure out the problem they thought they heard. I would rather have someone say something even if they just don't care for the sound than to just tell you it's fine while they think it's not. We all probably tend to get accustomed to our own sound from our different speakers and rooms and many times just a different sound is just that, different.

I have heard people say go listen to live music as much as you can, Great idea, every chance you get, but it really does little to compare it to music at home. I don't care what speakers, electronics or room you have it is not going to sound like live music, sorry it just won't, if it does you need to find somewhere else to hear live music.

I guess it depends on if you want to listen for the fun of the music or to evaluate a system ? I'd rather just casually listen, if something sounds really good it will get your attention. Ever just had music on and something starts playing and sounds so good you just want to go turn it up a little and sit down and listen.

Could be all wrong, been there enough.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Sometimes, sure.

Then just use real sounds as your reference material instead of music.

I've found that simply going outside for a few still evenings away from traffic and all the hubbub, sitting out for a couple hours at a time, and taking a damn good listen to what's going on around you can really make a difference.

As far as developing a "technical ear"....that comes with being sensitive to sound to begin with, some form of bonafide acoustics training (either music theory, physics, electronics, etc.), and listening drill.

That's a combination that simply cannot be armchair quarterbacked IMHO.

Reading material? That's a tough one.

[Chris A]

I'm slowly getting my 2-channel rig setup and dialed in and like what is being thrown at my ears, but worry about the day one of you comes over and informs me that my system is crap when assessed by universal standards. I read comments by guys on the internet about such and such person taught them how to listen, but never anything further on what that means or how to learn.

Thoughts? Help? Suggested reading?

I know it's ultimately about what sounds good to me, but I don't want better informed guest walking away filled with sympathy and regret for coming out to sample my gear.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/124734-home-audio-education-book-recommendations-anyone/

[garyrc]

Suggested reading?

Musicians and audiophiles -- to a degree -- value different aspects of the reproduced sound. Of course, many of us are both.

To read a composer/musician's view, Aaron Copeland's What to Listen for in Music is O.K. I reject the premise, though. I don't think you should listen for anything ... you should just let the music wash over you and trigger your musical gestalt. As you do, inevitably you will automatically notice each means, each effect.

For an audiophile's view, the books and magazines are full of them. Audiophiles are captivated by many things ... that gestalt, that cortically arousing whole, fine details and realistic timbre, attack, frequency balance, low distortion, wide dynamics. The thing about high fidelity, whether it is 2 channel, 3 channel, quad, 5.1, 7.1, etc. is the fidelity that counts is fidelity to the imagined original, because that's all you have to go on. The refrigerator door is closed, and you can no longer see the apple. Of course, the more you expose yourself to live music of every kind, the more you will notice that the sonics exist in great variety in different acoustical settings, and at different distances from the instruments.

Accurate sound may not always be the most liked. An amusing and famous experiment in Europe used an acoustically transparent scrim between the orchestra and the audience. There were also several sets of speakers behind the scrim. The speakers played recordings made earlier, using that orchestra and that musical selection. In one instance, the orchestra played live. The audience did not know what spekers wer playing when, or whether the orchestra itself was playing, but they were asked to vote for "the best sound." Reality came in third.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Garyrc

[Shakeydeal]

You are correct when you say that all that matters is how it sounds to you. This is very true. The way I gauge a system, be it mine or another, is whether or not I am engaged in the music. I know this sounds pedestrian and you might say "of course, that's what we all want". If I am trying to read a magazine, or browse the internet and I can't keep my mind on that "other task" for being pulled into the music, then I know the system is doing something right.

But I think most of the mainstream only use music as a background event and are never active listeners. Things ain't what they used to be when having a proper "hi-fi" was more of a status symbol than how elaborate your home theater is. We got lost somewhere along the way.

Shakey

[Schu]

I think for most... we are really only ever going to be able to judge something in relation to what it is you have personally experienced, prior to.

this is true for most anything, was this car faster than the last... was this movie better than the best you've seen and so on.

the key, as already stated, is mixing in as much critical listening in your life experience as possible... including live scenarios.

my current system is NO WHERE near as good as the best system I have ever heard, that honor goes to a iMax klipsch equipped theater near me, but my system is as good as it can be.... for now.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Schu

[billybob]

You are correct when you say that all that matters is how it sounds to you. This is very true. The way I gauge a system, be it mine or another, is whether or not I am engaged in the music. I know this sounds pedestrian and you might say "of course, that's what we all want". If I am trying to read a magazine, or browse the internet and I can't keep my mind on that "other task" for being pulled into the music, then I know the system is doing something right.

But I think most of the mainstream only use music as a background event and are never active listeners. Things ain't what they used to be when having a proper "hi-fi" was more of a status symbol than how elaborate your home theater is. We got lost somewhere along the way.

Shakey

Using background now while doing other things. Using my computer to listen to music intentionally, I switch gears. BTW, no elevator music here. A friend the other day came over to listen to music on purpose as it turns out. Guess if I ask him, he will let me know what his take on the sound is/was...truthfully.

[BlackGTS]

I would dial in what sounds best to you. Tweak it. Try your absolute favorite song on a lot of different variations. If you know a certain song, can be anything, use it but you must know EVERY SINGLE SOUND very well. I have a song that I use whenever I change anything. I close my eyes and visualize each sound.

As far as anyone else liking it? Well I can give you something to think about:

I'm colorblind. Been that way my whole life. I SEE colors, but I see them differently than about 99% of the population. I've gotten very used to the way I see them. I occasionally have someone ask me if I would have it corrected (if that was possible) and my answer is always no. I may be able to see the world like everyone else but I might not like that after 50 years of seeing it MY way.

Would you really want someone to change the way that you enjoy music?

Music is SOOOOOOO personal. I know that ears can be trained. I play the guitar and hear things differently than I used to because I have learned to. But as far as listening to music, I like what I like.

If someone questions your system, just tell them that you had parasites ravage both eardrums when you were young and this is the only way that you can listen to music. That should shut them down.

Best of luck,

Ron

Edited January 14, 2014 by BlackGTS

[mark1101]

I would recommend a visit to Klipsch to listen to their reference systems and learn how their systems sound. It's a good point of reference if you are using their speakers.

I always kept a stock or close to stock pair of Klipsch speakers to use as a reference to help me tune my systems as I progressed into the hobby.

When listening to some of the speakers at Klipsch I can vividly remember (and hearing others in the room agree) that "those Khorns" sounded aweful compared to what we had at home.

When we heard Jubs.......well, no one said too much. They were a lot better than what most of us had.

Go listen to other sound systems and decide what you like, what you don't, and how you want yours to sound. In the end if it pleases you and meets your goals then you are there.

I always listen to other's systems with an open mind. Some are better than mine, some not. But so what. You learn from it. Hopefully, they are nice people and feed you while you visit.

[Mallette]

As a person who is into audio equipment because of my love for music, my advice is simple: NEVER listen to equipment. Listen to music. If something in the music draws attention to the equipment there is a real or imagined problem. I have little doubt that some highly trained ears would hear issues with my system that I do not. It often irritates me (not at the person) when one such comes over and successfully gets me to hear some little thing I'd never noticed. At that point, it sticks out like a sore thumb and I am forced to deal with it.

But, in general, I hear music and it sends me to my happy place.

Your system exists to please you and no one else. To the extent it does, it is perfect.

Dave