Mallette Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Don't recall this being discussed and I have my own opinion. However, seemed like a nice can of worms to open. Assume you can only have one tube device. Would you choose amp, or preamp, and why? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Amp. An amp coupled to speakers produces more of that misbehavior my ears seem to enjoy than an upstream tube line stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Well, that is a choice I did not need to make but I have heard that the pre has more of an affect tube sound wise than the amp does provided that you have a qualified ty amp to back it up, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) I have always preferred tube preamps, for their more natural, detailed, closer-to-the-actual-music sound. I lived very happily for many years with [edit] tube preamps combined with two Mark Levinson ML-2's, which were SS class A, 25-watt, 60-lb monsters. I preferred the switch to various tube preamps after living with a number of SS pre's which were never satisfactory. However, switching out the SS ML's for tube amps also had a pretty dramatic effect. I now have OTL's, which aren't perfect by any means, but I like the very transparent combo. So, I actually don't have a very definitive case for preferring either one. I do think, however, that I've heard SS produce a very solid, well-defined bass, and I wouldn't argue with someone preferring that. I think it comes down to how the electronics synergize with the system. But, you have to watch out for gain-matching issues. Some otherwise fine tube amps have so much gain that some combos are very noisy. It is often a mistake to blame the "amplifier" for the noise, when in fact, a very quiet amp is only magnifying the input pre-amp noise. By the way, the only power cord preference I ever have had is an ESP "Essence" on tubed preamps. And I don't just say that because I have a few ESP cords left over (for sale cheap) from when I put them on many things before deciding they only made a difference on tube preamps. Edited March 11, 2014 by LarryC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 pre also... I have found great SS amp's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I prefer the Tube amp. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 If you want that tubey sound go with the pre, it has alot more tube sound then does a tube amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Iv run SS for 30+ years, and tube(s) for 40+, so for me it's all SS or all Tube. no mix and match here. Pre's do tell the rest what to do though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Interesting... My choice would be a tube amp and no pre... or maybe with a passive pre. Might be fun to play around with this idea a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Though not directly applicable to the original question, tube mic preamps are regularly used for both multitrack and location recording. I've heard engineers say that it "sweetens" the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 in other words Don, it changes what was really there. If forced at gunpoint, I'd opt for pre, but that is what it would take unless I just decided to start playing---you know---make it a "hobby." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoker2c Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Love the feedback here as I just traded for a Scott 340B tube reciever. Looking forward to comparing it with my McIntosh c28 and the phono section. Edited March 12, 2014 by ajoker2c 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Interesting... My choice would be a tube amp and no pre... or maybe with a passive pre. Might be fun to play around with this idea a bit. I also need to kick this around more since there are so many factors to consider, but I’m tending to agree with your thoughts for now. Partly, because, while I have several solid state pre amps, I do not believe that I’ve ever had a higher-end solid state pre amp of similar quality to my tube pre amps where I could understand the different impact, if any, on my overall systems that I’ve used. Therefore, I cannot really conclude whether my tube pre amps driving any of my solid state amps are injecting the magic into the system or if the sound differences detected are due to the quality differences between the two pre amps. I’m currently collecting parts, and have participated in a group buy for core parts, for a JFET pre amp that Nelson Pass presented at the Burning Amp Festival 2013 that uses the Linear Systems JFET devices. The circuit is described as ‘elegant’ by people knowledgeable of circuit design and from the initial builds on the forum, several have commented that it is “perfectly clear and detailed, strongly vivid, neutral and transparent but emotional and pleasant in presentation.” Mine is a long way until I’m finished, but I may have to try a comparison to my tube pre amps, when complete. Link if anyone is interested in more information on the JFET pre amp. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/244106-lsk-pre-baf-2013-a.html From an amplifier perspective, I’m thinking about the impedance issues that are inherent with many speakers. Essentially, I think most would agree that a speaker's impedance is not constant through its frequency response range. It seems that many speakers have a lot higher impedance at the woofer's resonance and tends to increase again in the higher frequency regions. The engineers reading the thread may need to correct aspects that I may not describe correctly; however, I believe there is an engineering reason that tube amplifiers drive the reactive load of a speaker differently than a solid state amplifier. I don’t know all of the technical aspects; however, I believe that a tube amplifier may follow the impedance changes of a speaker much better than a solid state amplifier. There again, I’m not sure how that works for tube amplifer and solid state amplifier of equivalent design quality since I’ve been listening to more of the Nelson Pass First Watt designs and they are sounding pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bracurrie Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I prefer the Tube amp. Dave I wish they made tube sound cards with multi channels for active crossover driven systems using computers. They may but for now I am extremely happy with tube amps, especially on the high end of my two way system. I still like the SS I have for better bass IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Seems like an even split. Fascinating. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ... and I have my own opinion. I'm just wondering - how does what you're reading here square with your starting thoughts for this thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm for both...so it doesn't count. If I am forced to choose, probably go with the tube amp. However, I'd then use a Bellari or other tube phono stage. Don't think that is cheating... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm for both Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Don't recall this being discussed and I have my own opinion. However, seemed like a nice can of worms to open. Assume you can only have one tube device. Would you choose amp, or preamp, and why? Dave If you could only Have One Tube Device, I would pick a SET tube Amplifier. I can run it without a preamp at all. However if you were to choose a tube preamp, you could not listen to music at all without an amplifier. I've seen plenty of system that run without a preamp, but none that run without an amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Love SET, and heard a couple of great ones on my system. Wonderful on jazz, chamber, etc. Pipe organ? No way. The owners of these noted that immediately without my help. SET isn't any good for anyone who listens to that last octave. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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