CECAA850 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 T-S parameters of the driver Those can be obtained from the driver manufacturer AFTER you buy the plans and find out what the recommended drivers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm happy with my free knowledge version, regardless of any unsubstantiated impropriety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Chief bonehead Posted July 18, 2014 Klipsch Employees Share Posted July 18, 2014 Horns 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrofan Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I too noticed an huge difference in the way my lascala's sounded from other rooms compared to the epic cf1's. Clear and loud even at lower volumes where the cf1 sounded muted and muddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Horns Horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) The F-20 is just a THT knockoff and the unbraced 3/4" plywood would have more distortion than the THT as the lack of bracing contributes to THD, you get what you pay for. Why would you think It's a THT knock off? If it is indeed a knock off, lilmike did a great job as it's so much easier to build than any of Bills subs. The only unbraced F-20's I've seen were some of the prototypes and test rigs. Virtually everyone braces theirs that I've seen. Bill Fitzmaurice eMailed me and said his horn was 11 ft. for a low cutoff corner of about 25.6 Hz. and was designed with REAL WORLD room gain in mind. He took a full SYSTEMS approach rather than a measurement out in left field. That being said, I think Ricci's measurement method is the only way to make an objective assesment of all subs, even though we don't listen to music outside like he tests. Room gain is the MOST significant component in the TOTAL performance of a subwoofer. However, you need to start with a good one to begin with. I think the Gjallerhorn is the ultimate, which puts out about 3 db more output than my DTS-10's and was inspired by Danley's work. However, all other things being equal, I would rather have 4 DTS-10's than two Gjallerhorns, because the Danley boxes are only 16" thick and can be easily placed on any wall. There is a horn called a Lowarhorn, which is a RE-FOLD of the Gjallerhorn to a lower profile. That is what I would build if I could afford the drivers. Edited July 28, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Hmmm, it has to be longer than 11Ft, the outer 3 panels alone are just short of 9 Ft long. 36" x 36" x 36" minus some for the corner braces. Edited July 28, 2014 by jason str Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I haven't been following this thread closely so I gotta ask -- has anyone actually tried to define what "accuracy" is? What does it mean if distortion is low, the FR is relatively flat, the power response looks great -- but it doesn't "sound good"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I just last week added two K-400s to my EAW stack, was missing that horn sound, got it back, a little on the hot side right now but im working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I haven't been following this thread closely so I gotta ask -- has anyone actually tried to define what "accuracy" is? I remember we had a similar discussion in another thread and someone quoted a source that said what they look for in a recording and explained that accuracy to them was being as close to representing a "LIVE PERFORMANCE" as possible... I felt that was a fair definition. even if I happened to be listening to a synthesizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 ...has anyone actually tried to define what "accuracy" is?...What does it mean if distortion is low, the FR is relatively flat, the power response looks great--but it doesn't "sound good"? I assume that when you are saying "distortion" above, you are actually talking about harmonic distortion...? The title of the thread refers to horn vs. cones. In order to infer meaning of the OP in his original post to this thread, I believe that the meaning (IMHO) should probably include: low modulation distortion (AM and FM), low compression and impulse distortion, low "imaging" distortion, and low harmonic distortion ...along with final listening evaluations with varying music. My answer to the OP's question is based on the above criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) Hmmm, it has to be longer than 11Ft, the outer 3 panels alone are just short of 9 Ft long. If you look at the difference between a small, medium, and large pizza, a small change in radius, say 2 inches, nearly double the area of the pie. By the same token, a folded horn path is based on the ACOUSTIC center of the emerging "air bubble", NOT the outside edges of the lumber. You should be able to Email Bill and see if he give you the same answer if you doubt my comment. Edited July 28, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) I haven't been following this thread closely so I gotta ask -- has anyone actually tried to define what "accuracy" is? Accuracy is very easy to define. It's based on a single listening position of a live performance of acoustic instruments in a given space. Anything else is a compromised, distorted, manufactured ILLUSION, by the advancement of the Audio Sciences. Some of those illusions, when all things are done as well as possible, can be very good indeed. Edited July 28, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 36" x 36" x 36" minus some for the corner braces. Sure doesn't look like a cube to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 36" x 36" x 36" minus some for the corner braces. Sure doesn't look like a cube to me. Come on Claude, this is taken out of context. Looking at the horn from the side its a 3 Ft cube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Hmmm, it has to be longer than 11Ft, the outer 3 panels alone are just short of 9 Ft long. If you look at the difference between a small, medium, and large pizza, a small change in radius, say 2 inches, nearly double the area of the pie. By the same token, a folded horn path is based on the ACOUSTIC center of the emerging "air bubble", NOT the outside edges of the lumber. You should be able to Email Bill and see if he give you the same answer if you doubt my comment. Just Does not seem right is all, since its Bill's design I'm sure his measurements are correct and my interpretation is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) 36" x 36" x 36" minus some for the corner braces. Sure doesn't look like a cube to me. Come on Claude, this is taken out of context. Looking at the horn from the side its a 3 Ft cube. No it's 3 ft. SQUARE x 2 feet wide according to the picture proportions. 2x3x3. Hey, don't blame me I'm just looking at the photo. Edited July 28, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdross1 Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Still have not made the decision on the sub horn yet,very close with only two left to choose from. In the meantime picked up a Klipsch K400 horn with K55V driver it sounds great but it is a 20+yr. old design. Was tempted to pick up one more K400 but before I do hope to listen to a 2" driven horn for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 What does it mean if distortion is low, the FR is relatively flat, the power response looks great -- but it doesn't "sound good"? It means that it's time to run a phase vs frequency plot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Looking at the horn from the side its a 3 Ft cube. Looking at the horn from the side it's a 3 foot square. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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