Signs of another economic collapse coming?

[deep3shot]

 

 

You mean the Federal Reserve constantly running the currency printing press isnt actually improving the economy but just floating the stock market in another bubble? Who would have thought.

 

Just wait until the student loan bubble bursts...

 

No truer words have been written.  I hasten to add that the student loan bubble is larger than that of the mortgage crises. 

 

 

 

 

The mortgage market is over $8 trillion while the student loan market was $1.3 trillion based on second quarter 2014 data and the student loan market adds about $100 billion in new loans each year.  

 

Fjd-  Sorry, I mixed up data I read regarding the unsecured debt bubble that included student loans as well as credit card debt.  

[twk123]

Gas is cheap because OPEC purposely kept the production up to take the price of oil down to about 40 dollars to put all of the USA shale guys out of business. Saudis can make money pumping oil at 30 dollars whereas the US shale guys need 50 to 70 dollars. They are having remarkable success in closing down the US oil industry.

Let's see, QE3 or a depression? I pick QE3.

JJK

 

Exactly on the OPEC remark, they just laid off 80 guys in Utah at our local producer:

 

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=33281054

 

And meanwhile we still cant legally grow industrial hemp in this country.

[Sancho Panza]

Industrial Hemp:

Smoking rope,

Jumping dope,

Eating cantaloupe?

[Mallette]

Gas is cheap because OPEC purposely kept the production up to take the price of oil down to about 40 dollars to put all of the USA shale guys out of business. Saudis can make money pumping oil at 30 dollars whereas the US shale guys need 50 to 70 dollars. They are having remarkable success in closing down the US oil industry.

 

Yep.  A clever and cunning Arab plan to put us back where they want us at any cost. 

 

It's working, too.

 

Dave

[Ski Bum]

They'll knock the US petrol industry down but not out.  Companies like Chevron may be attractive buys in the coming year or so, but I wouldn't try to catch a falling knife, as they say, better to see what shakes out in the near future.

[Max2]

Our leader is trying to increase more debt for our country to swallow by making a college education even more worthless.

 

 

College loans for everyone:

The "college education" has been over sold to the point where you have to have a graduate degree to actually benefit from it. Too many graduates cant pay the silly, overblown costs of the "tuition of the past" because the degree they earned, although proudly held, is barely worth the paper its printed on. Now with our leader pushing for free Junior college tuition for all, we will  have more "so called" educated masses that are actually being taught by a diluted sector of  idiots teachers. No doubt they will be pushing all these new McDonalds workers "cart riders" to expect 40K starting out, plus benefits and bonuses because of all this self entitlement that the teachers push and our country of the new "non earners" will rightfully expect and demand.

[Mallette]

Political, Max2.  Don't go there.  This one is going to be pretty tough to keep out the political...but all please do your best!

 

Dave

[billybob]

Sortof interesting how the shale drilling is not doing so swell lately due to price of product. Saudi's benefit by the price then while Russia and Iran are left holding the bag, which is dwindling being oil producing countries. If I believed in conspiracy theories, I would say that no better way to put the pressure on Iran while at the nuclear bargaining table, and Russia  being invited to leave the Ukraine. Maybe it is true that dictators will get what they deserve, in the end.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

This would lend itself to some tough times shortly ahead. And I for one just want to begin to prepare anyone who might be willing to listen to get ready. For certainly, something is coming.

 

There's a pretty good chance of global economic collapse. The global system is a debt system. All the money that is created is based on new debt, not new wealth. This is an OK way to build fast growth, but we are now in new territory because the world is running out of consumption power to fuel the growth. In the past, there was always a new 3W country to bring online to fuel growth. They have all been found, all exploited, all pushed into growth and now what? Where is the next place to find growth? No one knows. This is the problem. Without more growth somewhere, there is no way to turnover the current debt. Without a means of turning over the debt with new debt, deflation begins. We are already seeing NEGATIVE YIELDS on certain bonds. That means you pay them money to hold your money. You put $100 in for 10 years and they give you back $95 face value and you smile! I'm not referring to inflationary effects, I am talking negative interest rate!

 

So far the answer the bankers have is austerity (neo-liberal reform, structural adjustment programs). But of course, austerity is deadly. It literally costs people their lives at the margins. Austerity is the issue you hear about in Greece. In exchange for turning over their public debt, the bankers demand they go on a austerity program that cuts wages and benefits to all. The interest on the debt goes to the rich, while the poor languish in misery. That's the basic plan. Well, eventually people won't take it any more, and the answer is political revolt followed eventually by armed revolts. Egypt was the latter, Greece is the former. Another effect of austerity is on anyone living on fixed income. The retired population is getting murdered by 1.5% interest rates on savings. They are being pushed - shoved actually - into the stock market as a self defense to try to earn some income. Of course, that just fleeces them in the longer term. So, income is falling, and prices are rising for them. That spells d-e-a-t-h at the margins. And that, is exactly what the population control folks want to have happen. They'd like to bring the lifespan down to around 70 from its high of 82. Already, 2014 was the first year in the USA when lifespan decreased. Bringing lifespans down by a few years adds massive amounts of wealth to the owners pockets.

 

This struggle of austerity versus growth is waged by central bankers and private owners (the world's sovereign fortunes and private fortunes). Regular government administrators like Presidents and Prime Ministers are mostly out of the loop. The most important person in the USA right now is Janet Yellen, not the POTUS. Your quality of life is in her hands.

 

I don't know what others are doing, but I think defensively. Limit your exposure to the debt system. Make sure you have a place to live. Increase your talents so that you are not totally dependent on "jobs."

 

2 things...

 

First, do you have a link to show that it is a prevailing practice that creditors are being paid/accepting negative interest rates?

 

Second, if, as you contend, new debt is needed in order to perpetuate the never-ending growth model, then your financiers would not be so inclined to impose austerity.  Rather, they would love to loan the government more money in order to spawn growth.  Remember, governments don't live paycheck to paycheck and don't much become hindered by credit scores like ordinary people.

[Guest Steven1963]

 

 

This would lend itself to some tough times shortly ahead. And I for one just want to begin to prepare anyone who might be willing to listen to get ready. For certainly, something is coming.

 

There's a pretty good chance of global economic collapse. The global system is a debt system. All the money that is created is based on new debt, not new wealth. This is an OK way to build fast growth, but we are now in new territory because the world is running out of consumption power to fuel the growth. In the past, there was always a new 3W country to bring online to fuel growth. They have all been found, all exploited, all pushed into growth and now what? Where is the next place to find growth? No one knows. This is the problem. Without more growth somewhere, there is no way to turnover the current debt. Without a means of turning over the debt with new debt, deflation begins. We are already seeing NEGATIVE YIELDS on certain bonds. That means you pay them money to hold your money. You put $100 in for 10 years and they give you back $95 face value and you smile! I'm not referring to inflationary effects, I am talking negative interest rate!

 

So far the answer the bankers have is austerity (neo-liberal reform, structural adjustment programs). But of course, austerity is deadly. It literally costs people their lives at the margins. Austerity is the issue you hear about in Greece. In exchange for turning over their public debt, the bankers demand they go on a austerity program that cuts wages and benefits to all. The interest on the debt goes to the rich, while the poor languish in misery. That's the basic plan. Well, eventually people won't take it any more, and the answer is political revolt followed eventually by armed revolts. Egypt was the latter, Greece is the former. Another effect of austerity is on anyone living on fixed income. The retired population is getting murdered by 1.5% interest rates on savings. They are being pushed - shoved actually - into the stock market as a self defense to try to earn some income. Of course, that just fleeces them in the longer term. So, income is falling, and prices are rising for them. That spells d-e-a-t-h at the margins. And that, is exactly what the population control folks want to have happen. They'd like to bring the lifespan down to around 70 from its high of 82. Already, 2014 was the first year in the USA when lifespan decreased. Bringing lifespans down by a few years adds massive amounts of wealth to the owners pockets.

 

This struggle of austerity versus growth is waged by central bankers and private owners (the world's sovereign fortunes and private fortunes). Regular government administrators like Presidents and Prime Ministers are mostly out of the loop. The most important person in the USA right now is Janet Yellen, not the POTUS. Your quality of life is in her hands.

 

I don't know what others are doing, but I think defensively. Limit your exposure to the debt system. Make sure you have a place to live. Increase your talents so that you are not totally dependent on "jobs."

 

2 things...

 

First, do you have a link to show that it is a prevailing practice that creditors are being paid/accepting negative interest rates?

 

Second, if, as you contend, new debt is needed in order to perpetuate the never-ending growth model, then your financiers would not be so inclined to impose austerity.  Rather, they would love to loan the government more money in order to spawn growth.  Remember, governments don't live paycheck to paycheck and don't much become hindered by credit scores like ordinary people.

 

 

Here is a link to a yahoo news story talking about the NIRP (Negative Interest Rate Percentage) in Europe.  I read some months ago that this was either being looked at for adoption here in America or was being implemented.  I cannot recall where I read the article and it didn't immediately come up in a search.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/negative-interest-rates-hammering-germanys-154600789.html

 

As to your second point, the Federal Reserve openly admits that they use fractional reserve banking to grow the system. Whereas if you deposit $10 they 'create' another specified amount to loan out (debt).  There is literally Billions and Billions (if not Trillions) of nonexistent dollars created from the limited amount of existing dollars.  The problems occur when the contraction begins.  If you aren't depositing, they can't create and thus, deflation. Likewise, if you aren't paying back real dollars against their created dollars they can't profit. So, in order to coerce payment they institute austerity whereas you get no new loans unless you are robbing the public to pay back the debts you already owe. I'm talking about governments here.

 

It's extreme and shows how bad things really are because you are right, it's sort of a catch 22 for them. 

 

BTW, a bank counts a deposit as anything you sign attached to a promise to pay - a promissory note, for instance.  So when you go apply for a mortgage they aren't really loaning you the money.  You loan it to yourself by signing the promissory note and then the bank 'deposits' it as cash, then loans it out to you (with interest).  Then, since they use fractional reserve banking they can use your deposit to create more loans far exceeding the original amount of what you signed for on the promissory note. 

 

Yeah, you read that right, YOU loan yourself the money for the home mortgage and the bank charges you interest for the service. 

 

Think now about how much debt has been created from that process and what happens if a significant percentage of people can no longer pay back the debts.  That's where we are right now.

 

I'm not saying I've got it down 100%, but what I wrote here is pretty dang close.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Steven1963

[Jim]

Remember, governments don't live paycheck to paycheck and don't much become hindered by credit scores like ordinary people.

 

No they don't, they just take ours and distribute it to their pockets. Average salary for our delegates is what about $185,000+?

[Jeff Matthews]

Here is a link to a yahoo news story talking about the NIRP (Negative Interest Rate Percentage) in Europe.  I read some months ago that this was either being looked at for adoption here in America or was being implemented.  I cannot recall where I read the article and it didn't immediately come up in a search.   http://finance.yahoo...-154600789.html

 

I see.  In that article, if I understand correctly, there is a distinction.  The distinction is that the nation's central bank dropped rates it pays on deposits into negative territory.  Its depositors, of course, are made up private banks. The central bank's policy was aimed at discouraging banks from depositing the money with it and encouraging them, instead, to make local loans or invest overseas.  The various private banks have not dropped their deposit rates in the same fashion.  The rates to people like you and me are still well into positive territory.  Big difference.

[Jeff Matthews]

Yeah, you read that right, YOU loan yourself the money for the home mortgage and the bank charges you interest for the service. 

 

This part is not right.  If that has been said somewhere, certainly it was to be facetious to make some subtler point.   

[Thaddeus Smith]

The catalyst for this thread is my desire to pass information to the 'family' that they may or may not be aware of.  I've seen signs from others on this forum that they too have a wealth of information that may be important to the members in the coming months.

 

I'll open the topic with a  graph:

 

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2015/02/20150209_bdiy.jpg

 

For those of you not familiar with the BDI (Baltic Dry Index) it is, simply put, a data set from world wide shipping carriers for the demand of the largest ships in the world to move product (world trade).  The data set is perhaps one of the few that is not available for skewing by politics.  In other words, what you see is it and it is not 'messed with' for political expediency.

 

The BDI is now at the lowest level in its entire history. EVER.  Please note the dip right at the economic collapse back in 2008.  Now please see that it is even lower than that level now.  World wide demand for shipping to move product around the world is collapsing.  Meaning people/companies are not consuming.  Meaning deflation. 

 

This would lend itself to some tough times shortly ahead.  And I for one just want to begin to prepare anyone who might be willing to listen to get ready.  For certainly, something is coming.

 

 

Just so we're clear - you also predicted that Ebola would have overtaken the country by now and we'd be consumed by pandemic driven mass hysteria.

[Jeff Matthews]

FYI, the EU is just now starting a huge Quantitative Easing program like we just ended. That will pump half a trillion Euros into that economy to buy garbage assets. I doubt it will do much for real growth.... just as ours didn't. Japan continues theirs.

Don't be so sure.  You never know.  

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

Here is a link to a yahoo news story talking about the NIRP (Negative Interest Rate Percentage) in Europe. I read some months ago that this was either being looked at for adoption here in America or was being implemented. I cannot recall where I read the article and it didn't immediately come up in a search. http://finance.yahoo...-154600789.html

I see. In that article, if I understand correctly, there is a distinction. The distinction is that the nation's central bank dropped rates it pays on deposits into negative territory. Its depositors, of course, are made up private banks. The central bank's policy was aimed at discouraging banks from depositing the money with it and encouraging them, instead, to make local loans or invest overseas. The various private banks have not dropped their deposit rates in the same fashion. The rates to people like you and me are still well into positive territory. Big difference.

I was not referring to savings accounts. I was referring to bond yields.

 

I think your post concerning bond yields stated that the rates are in positive territory.  I was interested only in reports of negative interest rates.

[moray james]

ww3 will solve the monetary problem. Nothing like a big old war to kick start world economy.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

 

 

Here is a link to a yahoo news story talking about the NIRP (Negative Interest Rate Percentage) in Europe. I read some months ago that this was either being looked at for adoption here in America or was being implemented. I cannot recall where I read the article and it didn't immediately come up in a search. http://finance.yahoo...-154600789.html

I see. In that article, if I understand correctly, there is a distinction. The distinction is that the nation's central bank dropped rates it pays on deposits into negative territory. Its depositors, of course, are made up private banks. The central bank's policy was aimed at discouraging banks from depositing the money with it and encouraging them, instead, to make local loans or invest overseas. The various private banks have not dropped their deposit rates in the same fashion. The rates to people like you and me are still well into positive territory. Big difference.

I was not referring to savings accounts. I was referring to bond yields.

I think your post concerning bond yields stated that the rates are in positive territory. I was interested only in reports of negative interest rates.

Well, earlier I said that there are now negative yield bonds being offered in Europe.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-than-25-of-euro-bond-yields-are-negative-but-that-could-change-2015-02-02

 

 

"“We’re not going to get any more rate cuts from ECB and i don’t think we’re going to see anymore QE,” Keeble added."

 

Are they going to have QE or not?

[Jeff Matthews]

ww3 will solve the monetary problem. Nothing like a big old war to kick start world economy.

 

First, you have to have hungry people.  There aren't too many of those around these parts.

[Jeff Matthews]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a link to a yahoo news story talking about the NIRP (Negative Interest Rate Percentage) in Europe. I read some months ago that this was either being looked at for adoption here in America or was being implemented. I cannot recall where I read the article and it didn't immediately come up in a search. http://finance.yahoo...-154600789.html

I see. In that article, if I understand correctly, there is a distinction. The distinction is that the nation's central bank dropped rates it pays on deposits into negative territory. Its depositors, of course, are made up private banks. The central bank's policy was aimed at discouraging banks from depositing the money with it and encouraging them, instead, to make local loans or invest overseas. The various private banks have not dropped their deposit rates in the same fashion. The rates to people like you and me are still well into positive territory. Big difference.

I was not referring to savings accounts. I was referring to bond yields.

I think your post concerning bond yields stated that the rates are in positive territory. I was interested only in reports of negative interest rates.

Well, earlier I said that there are now negative yield bonds being offered in Europe.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/more-than-25-of-euro-bond-yields-are-negative-but-that-could-change-2015-02-02

"“We’re not going to get any more rate cuts from ECB and i don’t think we’re going to see anymore QE,” Keeble added."

Are they going to have QE or not?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/raoulruparel/2015/01/23/ecbs-e1-trillion-qe-will-not-solve-eurozones-growth-and-inflation-problems/

 

 

Why do those articles say opposite things?  Which one should I rely upon?  Which one do you believe?