oldtimer Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 There is a difference between beet sugar and pure cane sugar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 5 hours ago, dwilawyer said: Your going in circles. You're.... and no I'm not 5 hours ago, dwilawyer said: Are you saying that Americans are more susceptible to the influence of advertising? No, I didn't say that, either. Since you are saying it in the form of a question, have you ever heard of Bose speakers? Does that answer your question? 5 hours ago, dwilawyer said: All things being equal, a pound of sugar for example, the average consumer, whether in the US, Canada, UK, China, Russia, will buy the cheapest sugar on the shelf. However, there are consumers who are swayed by branding or advertising who will pay slightly more for C&H or Domino. The average American is overweight and under educated. I haven't looked into the buying behaviors of the people in the other countries that you mentioned. Form your way of reasoning, all speakers are the same, but some people will buy due to branding and not because some speakers are better than others. 5 hours ago, dwilawyer said: What's your favorite beer? Liquor of choice? Although there is nothing wrong with Purgatory, I like Permafrost better. As for beer: I like the home brew that my dad makes. It's not Budweiser, so you might not like it. From your way of thinking, you're saying that, all vodkas are the same. 5 hours ago, dwilawyer said: Other than food, everything is an impulse buy isn't it? No. Why are you saying that food is not bought on impulse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtmudd Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ng-interactive/2017/apr/07/meet-erica-the-worlds-most-autonomous-android-video Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 8 hours ago, dwilawyer said: The only two things I can think of that could cause an accident if not maintained properly are brakes and tyres Tons of things can cause accidents. Automatic cars? No need to check any fluid levels. Warning lights? The car should handle that. Never underestimate human stupidity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 1, 2017 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2017 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nvidia-ai-chips/chipmaker-nvidias-ceo-sees-fully-autonomous-cars-within-4-years-idUSKBN1CV192?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews 4 years to market. Guess I will have to keep waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 The other issue I have is going to be big brothers ability to track your every move. Currently you can turn your phone off and go about your business if you so desire but with AV's integration into the "matrix" of all things transportation related that will end. You're going to be inundated with coupons from the store you just shopped at. Ads for places you went by will be everywhere from your phone top your PC. Privacy will be non existent as the things that make your car able to navigate among other vehicles will have data that will be mined from just about everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 44 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: Privacy will be non existent Already is. However, I ho-hum about this as I did about Federal phone monitoring. The odds of them checking my phone call is pretty much nil, and the odds of them following Carl around about the same. Doesn't really matter as it is inevitable as was PC and phone tracking. The moment you turn on location on either it goes to thousands of databases. Of course, you can do without. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 3 hours ago, CECAA850 said: Never underestimate human stupidity. Thanks, Carl. You make the case for AVs nicely... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 36 minutes ago, Mallette said: Thanks, Carl. You make the case for AVs nicely... Dave Only in regards to people screwing them up like they do everything else. AV's will not be idiot proof as much as you like to think they will be. They will however be just another step in removing personal freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 1, 2017 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2017 This was your original premise before your orbit commenced: And the Mercan people are trained to buy on price alone, and that's the flip side of the reason why things are built cheaper, similar to the other All things being equal, free market economic theory says the purchase decision will be based upon price. This is incorporated in the law of supply and demand. Price goes down and demand will go up. It has nothing to do with what is learned, it's human nature according to Smith. 5 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: No, I didn't say that, either. Since you are saying it in the form of a question, have you ever heard of Bose speakers? Does that answer your question? Yes it does, it is clear that you are confusing demand based on price with demand created by marketing/advertising. The sucess of Bose is due to branding, marketing, patents, and advertising in conjunction with price targets. Bose headphones for example are significantly more expensive then the basic pair you can buy anywhere, but they were able to get people to pay significantly more for noise cancelling headphones. People didn't purchase those based on price alone. The same with their clock radio Wave), significantly higher priced (10X) then any clock radio, but better sounding so people bought them in droves. Advertising and marketing. Their cube speaker system in late 90s was the same way, live demos with large box speakers and they would pull away the grills to reveal to tiny cubes putting out tones of sound (inferior sound, but it didn't matter to that market). 5 hours ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: The average American is overweight and under educated. I haven't looked into the buying behaviors of the people in the other countries that you mentioned. Form your way of reasoning, all speakers are the same, but some people will buy due to branding and not because some speakers are better than others. I haven't specifically checked, but everything I hear is that the American diet has led to one of the highest rates of obesity among OCED countries (you are orbiting again). Your assertion about education is simply wrong. It isn't factually based and is obviously a personal judgement. The US is in top 5 in percentage of high school graduate among the 35 industrialized nations (OCED), and tied with Canada for second in the percentage of population with at least a bachelor'so degree. No, my reasoning, based on your original premise, is that all things being equal, the average consumer will buy the cheapest product whether it be sugar, gasoline, or car parts. They don't make this purchase decision based on something they learned by virtue of being "Merican." I never said anything about speakers, it doesn't fit within your premise. In fact, many on this forum claim that non-Klipsch owners make purchase decisions based upon what costs the most- the more it costs the better it sounds. Some say that the more you spend on caps the better sone thing sounds, others say it makes no difference and they atrium throwing money away. Klipsch is great at branding, and people will buy Klipsch products whether they "sound better" or not. For example earphones, many purchased Klipsch headphones without ever trying another pair for comparison. They bought Forte III's sight unseen presumably because of their trust in the brand. The correct analogy on speakers and price would be to look in the Garage Sale section of this forum. What considerations are people taking into account? Why do they seek to purchase used vs. new? What factors do they take into account- condition, location, PRICE? So bringing this back around full circle (which I am guessing is why Dave asked you "relevance") how does your premise relate to autonomous vehicles. People don't purchase cars based on price alone, unless it is the exact same car at two different dealers. Autonomous cars will be more expensive initially then the average car. The cost of adaptive cruise control right today is what? $4,000? Some will purchase that option, some won't for a lot of different reasons. The question will be at what price delta will people be willing to purchase an AV without any incentives or restrictions. $1,000 more to have an AV, $5,000, $10,000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I'd rather pay for HP than remote controlled vehicles but that's just me. DWI - please explain why the Keillor thread was abruptly halted? Seems pretty docile, politically free to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 1, 2017 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, CECAA850 said: The other issue I have is going to be big brothers ability to track your every move. Currently you can turn your phone off and go about your business if you so desire but with AV's integration into the "matrix" of all things transportation related that will end. You're going to be inundated with coupons from the store you just shopped at. Ads for places you went by will be everywhere from your phone top your PC. Privacy will be non existent as the things that make your car able to navigate among other vehicles will have data that will be mined from just about everyone. What if there was a model where you could opt out by paying more? My Kindle came that way. $10 more if you don't want to see ads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 1, 2017 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, richieb said: I'd rather pay for HP than emote controlled vehicles but that's just me. DWI - please explain why the Keillor thread was abruptly halted? Seems pretty docile, politically free to me. Juvenile sub-standard behavior, after repeated pleas from moderators to get back on track. Nobody wanted to talk about it, just to go at each other. I don't accept your premise that it was halted abruptly, there were plenty of moderator requests and suggestions and even a comment by OP. That's all I'm going to say on it as I don't want to muck up Dave's thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Well last I read and posted was Jimbo and I going back/forth on pork vs. veal schnitzel and he being lost in Indiana. I even gave Jim a "Go Blue" and said my German friends voted veal, hands down. I guess someone is invested in hog futures ---- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 1, 2017 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2017 30 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: Only in regards to people screwing them up like they do everything else. AV's will not be idiot proof as much as you like to think they will be. They will however be just another step in removing personal freedom. They can be idiot proof but I would think it would be cost prohibitive. If they are not idiot proof then the state is still going to require you to buy insurance. The premiums should go way down because over time they will not need to insure for risk 9f running red lights, following too closely, etc. But their will still be some risk. How often are you supposed to change out air bags? Every 10 years right? Carl, does anybody really do this? How much would it add to the purchase price of a car to add a feature to a car to start giving warnings on low tread life remaining and finally locking it out? $100? I'm thinking it will be significantly more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 42 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: AV's will not be idiot proof as much as you like to think they will be. Never said what I "...like to think." I've quoted what the OEM's are saying as well as common sense. What I LIKE to think is that someone will invent the transporter and I can just step through one in my home and then to Hong Kong. This discussion isn't about what I like...it's about what is going to happen. You've decided what you are going to dislike about it before it's happened. I'll make up my mind when I get my S3 in a couple of years. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Let's talk idiot proofing. The S3, though fully autonomous in components, requires hands on the wheel to remain in AV mode. Why? Idiot proofing. The idiot who died using it defied the dire warnings about not paying attention to the road while in AV mode and Tesla reacted. The point is that ALL idiots now driving Teslas can't do what that one did. Now, compare... DUI drivers are idiots. The get ticketed and do it anyway until they kills somebody. Plus, the legal remedy only works, if at all, on one person at a time. An AV that got "drunk" (Like Windows does on occasion) would be promptly fixed...and the problem would be fixed on ALL of them. It's precisely how the airlines became so safe such that they are FAR safer than being at home statistically. For me, knowing that if I fail to respond when the vehicle expects me to do something or get out, it will sound an alarm that, if I don't respond to it, will trigger an emergency vehicle to my location. About 15 years ago I was exposed to the smell of a corpse well past it's prime. A guy had parked his camper near my office several days earlier and died in his sleep. It was summer in Texas, and he was not discovered until the stench penetrated the camper. There are intrusions into what used to be my privacy these days that trouble me far more than a computer knowing my location while traveling. God knows how many databases know precisely where I am at the moment while typing this... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davis Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, dwilawyer said: Autonomous cars will be more expensive initially then the average car. The cost of adaptive cruise control right today is what? $4,000? Some will purchase that option, some won't for a lot of different reasons. I am not aware of any cars that have adaptive cruise control as an individual option in lieu of being part of some kind of option package to use as a reference. A 2017 Buick Regal GS has a Driver Confidence Package 2 that has "Adaptive Cruise Control and Front Automatic Braking" for $1195. This package requires the purchase of Driver Confidence 1 which includes "Following Collision Alert and Following Distance Indicator" for $1040. This package contains the cost of the radar based transmitter/receiver. So I would say in this instance the actual cost of adaptive cruise alone is less than the combined package cost of $2235 due to other options being included in the Driver Confidence 1 package such as" Lane Departure and BlindZone/Cross Traffic Alert". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 57 minutes ago, Mallette said: You've decided what you are going to dislike about it before it's happened. That would be bad witch in your poll, yes. It seems I'm in the 2/3 majority on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Last time I knew the Tesla came with, and the cost to unlock was 2k. I rather suspect that they are ALL comes with by now and the rest will follow...at least that is what they say. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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