akdave Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Do you want a TRULY logical and natural consequence to the under inflating "cheating" that has been alleged? The NEXT time the Pats and Colts meet, allow the Colts to under inflate the ball. The playing field is now LEVELED. QUESTION? I assume there is a specific pressure range, and the ball must be within that range.... Is this a correct assumption? Based on the NFL's findings, I assume the Pat's ball was out of range, too low...... Is this correct? Yes to both. I believe 11 of 12 Pats balls were under inflated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yes that is correct Gilbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 What specifically is Brady accused of doing? When they were discussing this investigation there was mention of experts on the Ideal Gas Law. I figured from there this thing was going to be sticky. Whenever you have to rely on Boyle and Charlie's law, something must be amiss. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) What specifically is Brady accused of doing? When they were discussing this investigation there was mention of experts on the Ideal Gas Law. I figured from there this thing was going to be sticky. Whenever you have to rely on Boyle and Charlie's law, something must be amiss. Based on what I read yesterday, Brady denied knowing anything about the ball being below the specified pressure range in the regulations. NFL commission doesn't believe him (nor do I, as mentioned previously), so Boom!!! 4 game suspension; I'm sure Brady will survive the ordeal, and is not going to miss any of his car or mortgage payments, so all is well. Besides, his wife is suppose to be loaded in more ways that one. I think the only "Gas Law" that comes into play in the NFL regulations. I didn't watch the game, and seriously doubt the temperature change throughout the game-time was stable enough to not have played a factor. Ball size/volume are inconsequential in this equation, unless some of the players were chewing on the ball or trying to stretch it out of shape. Edited May 12, 2015 by Gilbert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angusruler Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 of course he is...and belecek too! (btw...I hope I spelled it wrong). and to think belecek knew nothing aboot it is laughable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Don't you just love a non-profit organization being so all high and mighty? Although personally I think the pats organization deserves more of a penalty than they received. If anything for the cumulative scandals they have been involved in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 I thought there was an independent investigation and Kraft hired the "world's leading" expert on the Ideal Gas Law? I must have misread it. I did see a little news blurb that the commissioner dumped this him to an underling and made him sign the suspension letter. Loss of 2 draft picks, 1st and 4th, a million dollar fine. Godell is gone, there is no way someone as powerfull as Kraft takes that lying down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 The more money that is at stake, the deeper the well of word choices that begin to be utilized. "Believe", "generally aware" and "unlikely done without your knowledge." "Substantial evidence." That's going to arbitration. So I guestion is if you are "generally aware" that your lineman are holding, or that footballs are deflated are you a cheater? “With respect to your particular involvement, the report established that there is substantial and credible evidence to conclude you were at least generally aware of the actions of the Patriots’ employees involved in the deflation of the footballs and that it was unlikely that their actions were done without your knowledge,” the letter read in-part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) No course book, but a lot of rationalization. He was on a whole different level than denial. This isn't political, it is historical, and this is the quote that summarizes it all: Nixon: Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal. Frost: By definition. Nixon: Exactly. Exactly. If the president, for example, approves something because of the national security, or in this case because of a threat to internal peace and order of significant magnitude, then the president's decision in that instance is one that enables those who carry it out, to carry it out without violating a law. Otherwise they're in an impossible position. (minor thread drift) I agree completely. (with bolded section, I'm not commenting on the body of the post) I'd like to hold Mr. DWI Lawyer's post out as an example of EXACTLY the kind of polite, non-partisan historical observation and comment that ADDS to the community discussion. If I were a mod this wouldn't even raise an eye brow. Edited May 12, 2015 by wvu80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 So was the one Pat ball that wasn't deflated the one they used for kicking? It would make sense that a kicker wouldn't want a deflated ball, I might be wrong on that, but it would explain why one out of the whole batch was a legal ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 They have separate balls for kicking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Why do you think I call it the NFL---national football lawyers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) So was the one Pat ball that wasn't deflated the one they used for kicking? It would make sense that a kicker wouldn't want a deflated ball, I might be wrong on that, but it would explain why one out of the whole batch was a legal ball. The kicker's football is marked with a "K." The QB uses an entirely different model. Edit: Whoops, sorry about the redundant post, Mr. Oldtimer further upstream beat me to the "reply" button. Edited May 12, 2015 by wvu80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 No course book, but a lot of rationalization. He was on a whole different level than denial. This isn't political, it is historical, and this is the quote that summarizes it all: Nixon: Well, when the president does it that means that it is not illegal. Frost: By definition. Nixon: Exactly. Exactly. If the president, for example, approves something because of the national security, or in this case because of a threat to internal peace and order of significant magnitude, then the president's decision in that instance is one that enables those who carry it out, to carry it out without violating a law. Otherwise they're in an impossible position. I agree completely. (with bolded section, I'm not commenting on the body of the post) I'd like to hold Mr. DWI Lawyer's post out as an example of EXACTLY the kind of polite, non-partisan historical observation and comment that ADDS to the community discussion. If I were a mod this wouldn't even raise an eye brow. Thank you, I am just a little "gun shy" in these turbulent times and figured I would express my intentions ahead of time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Yet to see evidence. Did both teams not use the same ball? I'm pretty sure they don't play with each others balls. As I said "Yet to see the evidence". Notice how the QB always has his hands on the centers rear I'm not sure what the NFL standard is on enforcing the rules and punishment. Do they need direct evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt, reasonable suspicion, we don't like the guy or??? I'm sure there is something in their policy that explains what is needed before any punishment is administered. That being said, like oldtimer mentioned, it is the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincymat Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Yet to see evidence. Did both teams not use the same ball?I'm pretty sure they don't play with each others balls.I don't care who you are, that there's funny... Edited May 12, 2015 by cincymat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 It appears, like with baseball, the home team furnishes all of the game balls. Did something happen different for playoff games? Digest of Rules Main Ball The home club shall have 36 balls for outdoor games and 24 for indoor games available for testing with a pressure gauge by the referee two hours prior to the starting time of the game to meet with League requirements. Twelve (12) new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked with the letter "k" and used exclusively for the kicking game. NFL.com © 2015 NFL Enterprises LLC. NFL and the NFL shield design are registered trademarks of the National Football League. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 I'm confused. Does this mean the officials only have access to the "kicking balls"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 Cheating probably, whining positively, they should have included Belachek in the penalty's. he is the head coach and responsible for everything and should have known. Well that's what the NFL said about to S Peyton when he had so sit out for a year, do you remember how much evidence was found and presented by the NFL for that ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted May 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 12, 2015 Or is it just twelve balls for the "kicking game"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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