One for the Educators in the crowd

[twistedcrankcammer]

I would be more than happy to explain to the school how the boys do math and they can show that work,   problem is at the end of this year 3rd grade there is a test which covers this crap, 

 

Fail the test Fail the grade is my understanding

 

My schooling was HS, I took no interest in school the structure was not for me I breezed through it with zero effort and went straight to work / the military out of HS, In Hindsight I should have taken more interest I feel like I could have excelled my upbringing did not include the ability to look forward to collage, No Money and I dont recall a single HS teacher or councilor ever discussing a future

Not your Schools responsibility, that is your parents job!

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

I wasn't aware that it's illegal to educate your own kids. A computer, an internet connection and a library card are all that's needed. I suppose "home schooling" to many means keeping kids out of the public school, and at home?

I was being more general. I meant using the fantastic tools we have at all of our disposal to educate kids. Formal school goes so slowly, that it takes forever to learn important things. Most kids can learn at 10x that rate. Most of what take place in school is ridiculously light weight.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

All those things are fine but remember when your child goes to school and what you have taught is at odds with the schools agenda, now you are confusing your 8 year old child, I also feel like this confusion is a HUGE reason kids start to resent school, and eventually begin to give up

 

Our boys are ahead of the curve exactly because we do teach them at home, of course the schools take no notice of there levels and the bore the hell out of them for hours on end going over the same thing or confusing the hell out of them with this type crap.................

This is another MAJOR problem with "COMON CORE", Teachers have an agenda for their kids to do well on the tests set forth by the government. There is ABSOLUTELY no initiative for a teacher to HELP an advanced student with their studies and as a matter of fact it is counter productive for a teacher to push a kid who is smart into a higher grade level as I was, because it is going to effectively bring down their grade as a teacher. The Federal Government needs to get the HEIl out of Public Education.

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

People have not changed. Kids who want to learn, learn. And kids who want to learn a LOT, learn a LOT, no matter if they are Chinese or American or Irish. When we hear that we are "doing worse than China" in education, I am pretty sure they are talking about AVERAGE scores, not individuals. We have the most patents, the most inventiveness of all nations, so it's not like we don't have exceptional students. We do. Lots of them. But we also have huge masses of kids with no educational interest at all (for various reasons). Testing is a measure of the whole, not the individuals.

 

But, we have millions and millions of students enrolled in mandatory education who don't want to be there, but by law must be there. And they hold test scores way down. Take any average 12 year old that wants to learn, and you could get him college level educated in 4 years if you stay out of the slow-moving public system. I've met many very young kids that are wildly intelligent because they discovered reading, the internet, and how to use resources. In other words, there is nothing genetically wrong with American kids. But they are saddled with the slowness of a system that must handle "the masses", many of whom are just passing the time of day in school. That's a social problem more than an educational problem.

Except, I think you are totally missing the point I made about teachers not fostering advanced students because of their own personal grading system set forth by the Federal Government...

Roger

[Jim Naseum]

Except, I think you are totally missing the point I made about teachers not fostering advanced students because of their own personal grading system set forth by the Federal Government...

ok.

But the point I wanted to make is that any real education has to be done outside the official school. Compared to a typical school curriculum, a kid can learn 5X as much on his own time. Government education of the masses (doesn't matter which level of government) is a process of meeting THEIR goals. K-12 + JC is designed for training docile worker bees. Cogs in the wheel. Look at how silly and superficial the history is that kids learn in school. Useless comes to mind. Get your kids to be avid readers, then help them select reading lists that will enrich their interests. Do this for a year or two to get then kickstarted and they will be unstoppable - no matter what politicians are doing with schools.

[wvu80]

 

Not your Schools responsibility, that is your parents job!

Roger

 

 

At parent/teacher conferences, I used to tell the teachers the same thing, just juxtaposed.  I will tell them that educating my son was their job, but MY responsibility.

 

I was a very serious parent.

[joessportster]

 

 

I'm still trying to understand how this takes less time to perform than a simple carrying method that students in the 20th century used. I am also still waiting to hear on the mathematicians that are actually using these formulas...as of yet, I've seen none. What I really don't get is how this works when variables and fractions come into play.

Common Core: Making students commonly dumb.

A perfect example of why we are moving to a home school friendly state like Mississippi as soon as I get settled

 

The BIGGEST problem with Home Schooling is the parents need to know enough and be smart enough to teach it..... Sadly MOST do not.

I even have an IDIOT cousin that has Home "UNSCHOOLED" her kids!

Roger

 

I would beg to differ, if this is the case why do home schooled kids test much higher ?? I hear about it all the time, first example in under 10 seconds of looking from the dozens of sites that popped up

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/30/home-schooling-outstanding-results-national-tests/

[The History Kid]

I'm still trying to understand how this takes less time to perform than a simple carrying method that students in the 20th century used. I am also still waiting to hear on the mathematicians that are actually using these formulas...as of yet, I've seen none. What I really don't get is how this works when variables and fractions come into play.

Common Core: Making students commonly dumb.

A perfect example of why we are moving to a home school friendly state like Mississippi as soon as I get settled

The BIGGEST problem with Home Schooling is the parents need to know enough and be smart enough to teach it..... Sadly MOST do not.

I even have an IDIOT cousin that has Home "UNSCHOOLED" her kids!

Roger

So...why is it that I have a higher educational background in every core field my mother taught me than she does? Using your logic, I should be limited to what she churned out. Have you researched the requirements put forth by states for homeschooling? If we held the same standards in public education we wouldn't be having this conversation.

No...the biggest problems with home schooling is the lack of social learning experience. Some will do well still because they're naturally social butterflies, but others can become more reclusive because of it. That would be the main "problem", but even that is subjective.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

 

Except, I think you are totally missing the point I made about teachers not fostering advanced students because of their own personal grading system set forth by the Federal Government...

ok.

But the point I wanted to make is that any real education has to be done outside the official school. Compared to a typical school curriculum, a kid can learn 5X as much on his own time. Government education of the masses (doesn't matter which level of government) is a process of meeting THEIR goals. K-12 + JC is designed for training docile worker bees. Cogs in the wheel. Look at how silly and superficial the history is that kids learn in school. Useless comes to mind. Get your kids to be avid readers, then help them select reading lists that will enrich their interests. Do this for a year or two to get then kickstarted and they will be unstoppable - no matter what politicians are doing with schools.

 

 

 

Wow.  Great post.  This is so true. 

 

Think outside the box.  If you have the drive, start your own business and make your own rules.  if you work for someone else,  be the problem solver who approaches things differently.  If they don't appreciate you, others will and they will throw more money at you.

 

I have also taught myself a lot by reading.  I just wish that I had read more about business and investing when I was younger rather that about restoring muscle cars. 

Edited September 14, 2015 by tigerwoodKhorns

[Jim Naseum]

Mr tiger man,

It sounds like you read what you needed when you needed it!! Always works. And I totally agree with you that the future will be best by being self employed!

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

[Islander]

So this is still going on?  I would have thought that common sense would have won out decades ago.  When I was in school in the Sixties here in Canada, I learned "old math".  My brother, two-and-a-half years younger than me, was in the first class to learn "New Math".

 

He'd be telling me about which numbers are in the "counting universe" and which ones weren't, but he was just repeating what he'd heard and didn't really understand it.

 

Even then, it made no sense to me to teach number theory to beginners in math.  All that's really needed to learn is how to manipulate the numbers in easily-remembered ways to produce correct answers.  Requiring anybody other than a mathematician to know and understand number theory is like requiring a bus or taxi driver to know how to rebuild the transmission of their vehicle.  In other words, a waste of time and money.

 

That's the first analogy that popped into my head.  I'm sure there are many better ones.

 

This new system seems to assume that the students are completely stupid.  It oversimplifies to the point of actually making arithmetic (Yes, it at least seems to be limited to arithmetic, unless there's some "New Algebra" or "New Geometry" or "New Trigonometry" being taught.) more complicated and harder to remember.

 

Normal arithmetic uses simple rules that are easy to remember and not intimidating.  Any skilled student should be able to do mental arithmetic without much difficulty, to easily obtain roughly correct estimates.  That way, when a mistake is made with a calculator and the result is wrong by a factor of 10 or 100, the student (or engineer, for that matter) will realize it immediately.

 

The idea of Common Core, that there should be a nationwide standard that all students are able to achieve, is a good one.  However, teaching needlessly complicated arithmetic should not be a part of it.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Except, I think you are totally missing the point I made about teachers not fostering advanced students because of their own personal grading system set forth by the Federal Government...

ok.

But the point I wanted to make is that any real education has to be done outside the official school. Compared to a typical school curriculum, a kid can learn 5X as much on his own time. Government education of the masses (doesn't matter which level of government) is a process of meeting THEIR goals. K-12 + JC is designed for training docile worker bees. Cogs in the wheel. Look at how silly and superficial the history is that kids learn in school. Useless comes to mind. Get your kids to be avid readers, then help them select reading lists that will enrich their interests. Do this for a year or two to get then kickstarted and they will be unstoppable - no matter what politicians are doing with schools.

Sadly, most Parents do NO PARENTING!

An extreme example, I was over at a grade school buddies house tonight talking about just this. His parents never even read a book to him as a child, I asked him if his parents ever helped him with his homework when he was a little fella. He said one of his earliest and only memories of this was that his mother was doing his times tables with him and he got the answer wrong, so she slapped him and bloodied his nose. He says the reason why he remembers it is that she felt bad after she bloodied his nose and that is the only time he ever remembered her telling him that she loved him...

Roger

[twistedcrankcammer]

I'm still trying to understand how this takes less time to perform than a simple carrying method that students in the 20th century used. I am also still waiting to hear on the mathematicians that are actually using these formulas...as of yet, I've seen none. What I really don't get is how this works when variables and fractions come into play.

Common Core: Making students commonly dumb.

A perfect example of why we are moving to a home school friendly state like Mississippi as soon as I get settled

The BIGGEST problem with Home Schooling is the parents need to know enough and be smart enough to teach it..... Sadly MOST do not.

I even have an IDIOT cousin that has Home "UNSCHOOLED" her kids!

Roger

I would beg to differ, if this is the case why do home schooled kids test much higher ?? I hear about it all the time, first example in under 10 seconds of looking from the dozens of sites that popped up

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/30/home-schooling-outstanding-results-national-tests/

A big problem of the Bell Curve is that most Home School Parents at least care enough to get involved with their kids education, the public school system is littered with multi generational welfare / Public assistance kids and main streamed mentally insufficient kids that have to be figured into the overall Public School grade curve.

How many below poverty line or MRDD, learning disabled or Autistic kids are getting home schooled?

Roger

Edited September 14, 2015 by twistedcrankcammer

[joessportster]

 

 

 

 

I'm still trying to understand how this takes less time to perform than a simple carrying method that students in the 20th century used. I am also still waiting to hear on the mathematicians that are actually using these formulas...as of yet, I've seen none. What I really don't get is how this works when variables and fractions come into play.

Common Core: Making students commonly dumb.

A perfect example of why we are moving to a home school friendly state like Mississippi as soon as I get settled

 

The BIGGEST problem with Home Schooling is the parents need to know enough and be smart enough to teach it..... Sadly MOST do not.

I even have an IDIOT cousin that has Home "UNSCHOOLED" her kids!

Roger

 

I would beg to differ, if this is the case why do home schooled kids test much higher ?? I hear about it all the time, first example in under 10 seconds of looking from the dozens of sites that popped up

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/30/home-schooling-outstanding-results-national-tests/

 

A big problem of the Bell Curve is that most Home School Parents at least care enough to get involved with their kids education, the public school system is littered with multi generational welfare / Public assistance kids and main streamed mentally insufficient kids that have to be figured into the overall Public School grade curve.

How many below poverty line or MRDD, learning disabled or Autistic kids are getting home schooled?

Roger

 

If this is true (which I have a hard time believing it is) it just proves the point at how inept the system is, How could you test special needs kids with those who are not and tally the grades together and hope to get an accurate result of where the students are Makes no sense at all

 

On another note I think they are seeing some of the weakness in the common core mess I saw a news report in SC where the schools are getting away from it 

[joessportster]

here is a nice news clip that is actually right on the nose

 

“In 2009, the Common Core owners convinced the U.S. Department of Education to drive the standards into the states through a carrot-and-stick approach,” McGroarty continued. “In state after state, the state departments and boards of education, which are executive branch agencies, adopted the Common Core despite their demonstrably inferior quality. They did so because their institutional focus is on courting the favor of the federal government, the entity that provides conditional money.”

[JJkizak]

Confucius say:  "Why do you have to learn mathematics' if you have a calculator?"  That does leave more brain storage for trivia nonsense.

JJK

[joessportster]

Confucius say:  "Why do you have to learn mathematics' if you have a calculator?"  That does leave more brain storage for trivia nonsense.

JJK

LOL, yep could likely get on Jeopardy 

[joessportster]

I am wondering why they still teach cursive writing ?? as you progress in school they want everything typed.........................who the heck still writes letters, I have not seen a hand written letter in over 14 years

 

Other than a signature it is pretty much extinct in my daily Life

[Travis In Austin]

I am wondering why they still teach cursive writing ?? as you progress in school they want everything typed.........................who the heck still writes letters, I have not seen a hand written letter in over 14 years

Other than a signature it is pretty much extinct in my daily Life

They don't teach cursive writing anymore, not for at least the last 10 years, at least in most states.

Email, texts, etc. were seen as the replacement for cursive writing and therefor no longer necessary to be taught.

I don't think that was well thought out.

[Travis In Austin]

I am wondering why they still teach cursive writing ?? as you progress in school they want everything typed.........................who the heck still writes letters, I have not seen a hand written letter in over 14 years

Other than a signature it is pretty much extinct in my daily Life

Here is a general article about the decline of cursive being taught in schools.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/cursive-handwriting-disappearing-from-public-schools/2013/04/04/215862e0-7d23-11e2-a044-676856536b40_story.html

[jacksonbart]

Different Strokes for different folks.  But I think that cat has perhaps has dropped a few tabs and definitely smoked a (199666444-336 (do this in your head)) amount of weed.