reciever options

[sdfanfl]

I need help! I've been mostly a lurker here for the last 15 years and now I need some advice. Long story short... 15 years ago for my 30th birthday I bought a Denon avr 3801 and a pair of Klipsch klf20's . I was in heaven!!!! My Denon finally bit the dust. I replaced it with a new Denon(avr-x3100) that after 3 days I am sending back. I mostly listen to 2 channel but like the flexibility of hdmi and all the new stuff coming down the road. In my opinion the new Denon sounded horrible. It seems the sound quality went down while the features I'll never use went up. Does anyone have any advice on what current avr might go well with these speakers? 

[willland]

Sdfanfl,

 

Welcome to the forum.  

 

Before you take back the Denon, have you run Audyssey?  Experimented with placement?

 

I ask these things because the modern AVR's are not near as "plug and play" as your 3801.

 

If stereo music is top priority but you still want HT flexibility, then look at some of the offerings from NAD or Anthem.  I have hesitated to jump on the Atmos and 4K trains to "modernize" my main HT system because my NAD pre/pro does such a great job with music, both stereo and multichannel.

 

From some of the things I have read, Yamaha Aventage AVR's are also highly regarded for stereo music playback.

 

Bill

[wstrickland1]

hmm. I have an X2100 and it sounds really good. Surprisingly good actually.

[derrickdj1]

Check out some of the Pioneer Elite models.  Lots of options for down the road and enough juice to push those KLF 20's.  Excellent 2 ch. SQ!

[sdfanfl]

I did set up the audessy,. However everything sounds so shrill and high. I  went into the internal eq and took everything all the way down. Still bad. I even drug the speakers(which is not an easy feat) into my other room and hooked them up to an old sherwood 2 channel receiver I have and they sound much better. It just seams to me that everything is about gadgets and not sound quality these days. I should probably just go 2 channel receiver, or amp for my uses; but with the new technology,I feel I'm getting phased out. At some point I will need hdmi inputs and such.

[sdfanfl]

There's also not really anywhere to demo things anymore

[oldred]

I agree with derrick..... Try the Pioneer Elites..... They Rock for 2 channel

[fuzzydog]

Check out some of the Pioneer Elite models.  Lots of options for down the road and enough juice to push those KLF 20's.  Excellent 2 ch. SQ!

+1 on the Pioneer Elite recommendation. Stick with the "sc" models.

[007nco]

I had the Pioneer Elite VSX-52  it was pretty nice and after 2 years had THX chip issues, repaired and few months later completely died.   I had replaced a Denon that I'd had for a year before that and sort of like you, was ok, but not how I remembered the older Denon from 20-25 years ago.   I am completely thrilled with the Onkyo TXNR3030 I got a month ago, definitely a much stronger and stable unit than the Elite was but at twice the price of the Elite, I'd hope it would be.   On the memory train, an older high end Marantz from the 70's that served me for nearly 20 years that I wish I still had for some 2ch music.  Although my hearing probably was better then too.  

Edited October 23, 2015 by 007nco

[K5SS]

The VSX-52 is an entry model Elite receiver. Try one of the new SC models.

I have owned about 3 different higher end models of each brand and I keep going back Pioneer Elite (SC) and Yamaha Aventage.

Individual results may vary.

Edited October 23, 2015 by K5SS

[wvu80]

I need help! I've been mostly a lurker here for the last 15 years and now I need some advice. Long story short

 

First of all, welcome to the forum you've known about for 10 times as long as I have. 

 

Second of all you've lurked for fifteen years?  Good grief!  Whatever you do don't so long to make your next post! 

 

And back to our program...

 

I'm not so quick to kick the Denon to the curb.  I don't know that unit and others here will probably be proven correct on replacement suggestions, but I have a few observations and some questions first, if you don't mind.

 

I recently (last two years) upgraded from 2-channel into the world of 5.1 with an Onkyo TX-NR717.  The 5.1 was VERY different from what I was used to.

 

What was the most different was the different audio modes.  There was Neo6, Stereo, Pure Audio, Dolby PLIIz, All Channels Stereo and more.  They all sounded VERY different from one another.  It used to be that changing speakers was the way to get the most difference in sound, but I find changing the AVR settings just as dramatic.

 

If you are running a 2.0 setup, I suggest you try Pure Audio (probably the best sound) and later try the Stereo mode.

 

Your Denon terms will probably be different from my Onk terms, but they should have similar features.  Try those settings and get back to us with how they sound.

Edited October 23, 2015 by wvu80

[sdfanfl]

wvu80, I actually did post here years ago, but couln't remember my password so had to start over. To answer your question, yes , I did have it  in pure stereo mode. It's just no where near as good as my previous Denon. My use is probably 90% stereo and 10% HT. I just like the flexibility that the avr's offer compared to the stereo units I've seen. Thank you all for your help.

[JoeDirt]

I am also looking at receivers and the Yamaha/Pioneer results stated above seem to be a constant.

[kapsnb01]

I'm with Bill & Dave...something doesn't sound right with your current Denon.  "Shrill and high" are not typical for a Denon sound, which leads me to believe that Audyssey either didn't set something correctly or there is another issue.  It might be worth it to rerun Audyssey a few times and see what kind of settings it's coming up with and whether they're consistent.  We can throw out the recommendations for the gear we own all day, but if it's a setup issue, or something in the room that's causing the issue a new AVR may not be the magic elixir.  Just my $0.02...

[InVeNtOr]

i think i'm the only one....the older stuff can sound "better" due to the age and break in period.  if all you have owned are receives that are 10yrs and newer, you might not notice.

i don't think there is anything "wrong" with the current Denon, i simply think its more of the new digital parts vs. the older analog parts. if you like 2ch the most and still want HDMI, would a HK be out of the question for you? i've heard those, in fact the people that had 7's hooked up to them didn't have the same ear fatigue (it was still there, just not as bad) as other receivers.

i couldn't give a suggestion on which HK to pick, just that receiver + klipsch = good 2 ch. 

if it were me, i would first look for older receivers (stick with Denon to be safe).  the good news, most older receivers are super cheap. 

if you really want HDMI, but you don't like how any of them "sound" to you, try a vintage receiver  (as in wood for a case, i know of 1 guy on here who sells them) and get a HDMI converter box.  yeah it won't give you "perfect" video, but it shouldn't hurt the sound you love.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=9994&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=5971&seq=1&format=2

it can get expencive, but either of these will work.  just convert your TV HDMI and leave the CD player analog alone.  oh, what do you use to listen to 2ch? cds? what outputs does the player have?

[wvu80]

Mr. SD Fan in Florida isn't a rookie, he knows what good sound is from his experience with his previous Denon.  The fact that he can simply switch receivers and get the good sound back is troubling.

 

I know the new AVR's, including his new Denon may not be what the old stuff was, but it shouldn't be this difficult to set up.  What sounds off to me is the EQ curve.  Aside from those listening modes I mentioned it almost sounds like if he has a preset EQ that something like "Jazz" or "vocal" which takes lowers bass and boosts the mid-range might be the culprit.

 

I found a review of the AVR X3000 that seems to echo what SD Fan is saying:
 

...I did have to tweak MultEQ's crossover points a bit, since it tended to settle upon a crossover that was way too high for my fronts and way too low for my rears.

http://hometheaterreview.com/denon-avr-x3000-in-command-72-av-receiver/?page=2

 

 

 

Here's another review detailing how good the X3100's sound is.  However, almost as an afterthought it mentions the "shrill" sound.
 

It manages a very detailed and composed performance, but with a familiar Denon warmth to proceedings. Even with the extremely clinical M&K S150mkII speakers attached, there was still an easy to listen to performance with no sibilance or boxy sound-stage at reasonable listening levels. Only when really pushed did the X3100 start to struggle dynamically and things turned shrill.

 

https://www.avforums.com/review/denon-avr-x3100w-7-2-av-receiver-review.11211

 

 

But again, SD Fan knew where to find the EQ and manually took the highs back down, and still he has bad SQ.  It sounds like he has done his due diligence.  Could this simply be a bad unit?

 

I'm now questioning the Dynamic EQ settings, and probably some settings which dictate how much (or none) of the dynamics are affected (dynamic volume, maybe?)

 

SD Fan, I would suggest you contact Denon's Tech Support directly and see what they say.

 

Also, there is an "official" thread on AVSforums.com that discuss your X3100.  I haven't read the thread, but you might want to.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1531868-official-2014-denon-s-series-x-series-avr-model-owner-s-thread-faq.html

Edited October 23, 2015 by wvu80

[ajoker2c]

Sdfanfl,

 

Welcome to the forum.  

 

Before you take back the Denon, have you run Audyssey?  Experimented with placement?

 

I ask these things because the modern AVR's are not near as "plug and play" as your 3801.

 

If stereo music is top priority but you still want HT flexibility, then look at some of the offerings from NAD or Anthem.  I have hesitated to jump on the Atmos and 4K trains to "modernize" my main HT system because my NAD pre/pro does such a great job with music, both stereo and multichannel.

 

From some of the things I have read, Yamaha Aventage AVR's are also highly regarded for stereo music playback.

 

Bill

My Anthem 510 with ARC room correction does a great job in 2 channel and HT. Easy to navigate and change the program profiles from ARC to switch from HT and 2Ch. Not a lot of bells and whistles that go unused, just good quality sound is their focus.

Highly recommend!

The ARC room correction software is the easiest to run and tweak I have used.

[teaman]

Personally I would grab a separate amp and preamp. Emotiva has a really nice sale going on right now and has some really good gear. Very few receivers to my ears sound good in both two channel and surround. Usually it is one or the other. Since the Emotiva equipment has a five year transferable warranty the option of buying used should also be on the table. This stuff is built like a tank and offers pretty much everything you need....with tons of headroom for the peaks when listening to surround but lots of power for any mode. Just food for thought I guess.

[tromprof]

Another recommendation for Pioneer SC series. Sound great on my big horns. I recently had an power surge related issue with mine that was easily resolved, but before I figured it out I tried a couple of Yamaha units. I was impressed with the sound and liked the layout as well.

[sdfanfl]

thanks for all your help guys. The denon is packed up and on its way to ups tomorrow for a return, I've spent alot of time fooling with it to no avail.. I'm currently doing research. I'm looking at the pioneer elite sc series, yamaha aventage , and even a plain old fashioned yamaha rs700 stereo receiver. It's funny, the yamaha 2 channel receiver weighs more at 2X100 watts than their receiver that is 7X100 watts. I don't want to go the seperates route unless I have to. I also noticed that my 3801 was made in Japan, whereas the 3100 is made in china. Don't know if that makes a difference? But like I said, my cheap Sherwood sounds way better than the denon 3100, Denon is off my list. I can't say it enough, but THANK YOU All for your input. My friends with their sony/bose setups think I'm a lunatic; It's nice to know I have friends here in the asylum!