Are we alone?

[Mallette]

Agreed.  Quite possible.  We might be a sub routine. 

 

Biological entities are inherently "primitive."  Any sufficiently advanced civilization will be well past that by billions of years. Of course, we just might be a freckly faced kid's science project. 

 

Dave

Edited October 23, 2015 by Mallette

[Jim Naseum]

Agreed.  Quite possible.  We might be a sub routine. 

 

Biological entities are inherently "primitive."  Any sufficiently advanced civilization will be well past that by billions of years. Of course, we just might be a freckly faced kid's science project. 

 

Dave

Bingo! Biologics are primitive. And just as our human impulse was to build Silcon/AI, so too would be the same impulse of any biological life that masters enough physics to build computers. The basic assumption is to gain immortality one way or another! 

[Mallette]

Generally agreed.  But really just improved lifeforms.  "Upgraded," if you will.

 

Dave

[WMcD]

New observations by Hubble show just how immense and old the universe actually is.

In my view, the structures of elements are the same everywhere (per atomic numbers) and thus other living matter and sentient beings must have arisen elsewhere.

It is interesting to speculate on the possibility, or probability, maybe inevitability, that other worlds had a million year head start on us. What could have been accomplished?

Carl Sagan has a piece in which he mourns the fall of the Greek civilization. He does not mention the Romans and Egyptians, and should have. But the implication is that the Dark Ages cost the European civilization some 1500 years of development. And I'll add respectfully, that the Chinese civilization somehow faltered too.

So, Sagan presents a picture of space probes with Greek lettering. Let's say they could have accomplished that in 700 A.D. had their civilization survived.

There may be other reasons for the delay of advancement by us. If this could have been avoided, we'd be way ahead. It just shows that civilization around other stars would flourish instead of being, as we were, stilted.

It seems to me that in ancient Greece bright minds were recognized and given the free time to do their work. The same is true of the Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution. It is true that many scientific minds were of moderate social means. Yet at least in their days they found some social support. At least to some extent, there was literacy.

I'll say that there were people with potential like Newton, Maxwell, Faraday, Pasteur, Curie, etc. But a class system would only let them haul rocks or harvest crops.

Will we ever meet such alien civilization? It seems that communication and travel over the vast distances is impossible even by the most advanced civilization.

If we speculate that they do existed, starting a million years ago, and have the power to bridge that light speed gap, somehow they have not. Or at least, have not found us.

This is like time travel into the past. If it is possible, someone from the future would have visited us, right? They haven't, so it is will never be possible.

OTOH, the Universe is so large and times to immense, maybe our alien friends haven't gotten around to this solar system. Smile. It could happen tomorrow.

WMcD

[Mallette]

So, Sagan presents a picture of space probes with Greek lettering. Let's say they could have accomplished that in 700 A.D. had their civilization survived.

 

His reasoning isn't bad, but I feel like the Romans would be a better choice, and maybe 1200  or so AD.  Of course, pure speculation and alternative history.  But the real loss was the Alexandrine library which was the equivalent of the web.  The accumulated learning of all mankind.  Most of the "dark ages" were spent simply relearning all of that.  We'd have been WAY ahead of where we are had that library not been lost.

 

Dave

[garyrc]

• We are not alone
• Upon contact, they will make us their pets -- or food -- or slaves. 

Looking for evidence of absence, or absence of evidence? 

 

Presence and absence are tricky things.  There can be no conclusive evidence of absence, but there can be absence of evidence.  When some preamps and receivers were sporting presence controls, Paul W. Klipsch suggested absence controls.

Edited October 24, 2015 by garyrc

[Travis In Austin]

So far we up to what speed for space travel, 1/18,000th the speed of light? 70 to 80 thousand years to reach the nearest star.

Is interstellar space travel even possible?

[Wolfbane]

 

So, Sagan presents a picture of space probes with Greek lettering. Let's say they could have accomplished that in 700 A.D. had their civilization survived.

 

His reasoning isn't bad, but I feel like the Romans would be a better choice, and maybe 1200  or so AD.  Of course, pure speculation and alternative history.  But the real loss was the Alexandrine library which was the equivalent of the web.  The accumulated learning of all mankind.  Most of the "dark ages" were spent simply relearning all of that.  We'd have been WAY ahead of where we are had that library not been lost.

 

Dave

 

 

The library at Alexander being burned was much less a factor in the development of circumstances that resulted in the Dark Ages than was the combination of initially Christianity expanding into the Roman Europe, and subsequently, Rome's over-reliance on mercenaries to maintain their empire. The later coming of Islam put paid to what was left of the Ptolemaic Kingdom's Library in Alexander, as religion practiced by zealots results in the destruction of anything the zealots don't understand.

 

 China was ravaged by the Mongol invasion and subsequent take over.

 

Napoleon said 'the boundaries of an empire is measured by the graves of it's soldiers'. Great empires like Egypt, China and Rome always decline, and always fall, when those same soldiers are no longer willing to fight to expand, maintain and hold on to what they've already acquired. Nothing fails like too much success.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Wolfbane

[Nismo]

So far we up to what speed for space travel, 1/18,000th the speed of light? 70 to 80 thousand years to reach the nearest star.

Is interstellar space travel even possible?

No. Based on our primitive technology, interstellar travel is impossible. The closest star to us (besides the sun) is Alpha Centauri at 4.3 light years away. For example, if we were to use the Space Shuttle... it would take 165,000 years to get there. Plus it's catch 22. With our limited fossil fuel rocket technology, you would need a tremendous amount of fuel to get there. That required amount of fuel has immense weight. In order to lift the weight of the fuel load, you need even more fuel during launch in order to escape Earths gravity. There's not enough fossil fuel on the entire planet to achieve either feat. We are a long ways from leaving out solar system. Kinda sad.

[cradeldorf]

 Given the overwhelming vastness of the universe, I think the odds of there being other sentient beings within this universe, are extraordinarily in favor of such an occurrence. There are several possibilities, one is that their technology is so overwhelming we cannot understand any attempt by them to contact us. Another being we are so far below them on the evolutionary scale, we are just not that interesting to them.

 

 If even a tiny percentage of the planets we have calculated to exist in just the Milky Way galaxy are inhabitable by some form of life as we know it, the number is astronomical. Lord knows how many other forms of life could be represented within this vast scope.

Last I knew we are only searching outwards 6000 light years so technically we are still only looking a a very tiny spec of the Milky way and there are billions of Galaxies out there.

[DizRotus]

The SOS from the Titanic is only 101 years out in space, with I love Lucy episodes close behind.  Given the vastness of the Universe, the probability of other life is much higher than the probability that they could know we're here on the third rock from the sun.

[Nismo]

 

 Given the overwhelming vastness of the universe, I think the odds of there being other sentient beings within this universe, are extraordinarily in favor of such an occurrence. There are several possibilities, one is that their technology is so overwhelming we cannot understand any attempt by them to contact us. Another being we are so far below them on the evolutionary scale, we are just not that interesting to them.

 

 If even a tiny percentage of the planets we have calculated to exist in just the Milky Way galaxy are inhabitable by some form of life as we know it, the number is astronomical. Lord knows how many other forms of life could be represented within this vast scope.

Last I knew we are only searching outwards 6000 light years so technically we are still only looking a a very tiny spec of the Milky way and there are billions of Galaxies out there.

 

Interesting info with the Milky Way Galaxy & our insignificance within it. We all know what an Earth year is (obviously, lol). Well, it is widely accepted that it takes approximately 230 million years for "1" rotation around the Milky Way... or "1" Milky Way year.  Modern humans (Homo Sapiens & Neanderthals) have been around for 200,000 years. That basically means our species has existed for about 16 hours... of just 1 Milky Way year.  

[Islander]

 

There are countless curiosities springing from the ancient civilizations. They exhibit capability that is hard to explain.

 

Fully agree.  I'll only mention one of my favorites.  Imhotep: Chancellor of the King of Egypt, Doctor, First in line after the King of Upper Egypt, Administrator of the Great Palace, Hereditary nobleman, High Priest of Heliopolis, Builder, Chief Carpenter, Chief Sculptor, and Maker of Vases in Chief, according to inscriptions.  A commoner given divine status after his death.  Tomb site is unknown as he designed it himself and did a much better job than his bosses of keeping it secure. 

 

The man pretty much invented Egyptian civilization in a single lifetime, everything from architecture to medicine.  The beautiful delicate lotus columns and other refinements to his buildings gradually DETEROIRATED over the next couple of thousand years.  That's something pretty much weird in itself. 

 

If that wouldn't make a great scifi novel about an alien stranded with nothing but his education I don't know what would.

 

Dave

 

 

There do seem to be some unexplained things about ancient Egyptian culture, like how it peaked over a short period, then went into decline, as if a single genius or generation was responsible for many of their advances, which could not be sustained once their originators were gone.

[Islander]

See if this flow chart can cover most of the possibilities of what might happen if extraterrestrials come calling.

http://buzzdixon.com/writing-2/the-gahan-wilson-sci-fi-horror-movie-pocket-computer/

[Mallette]

The library at Alexander being burned was much less a factor in the development of circumstances that resulted in the Dark Ages than was the combination of initially Christianity expanding into the Roman Europe, and subsequently, Rome's over-reliance on mercenaries to maintain their empire.

 

No intention to oversimplify history.  If you want probably the best and easiest to enjoy story of how the accumulated knowledge of the ancients came to be lost, I highly recommend Agora.  While history/fiction, it is based on pretty good speculation from what we do know about Hypatia and the loss of the library.  Few scholars debate that the destruction of the Alexandrine library set humanity back and the only point of contention is just how much.  The "dark ages," which were nowhere near a s "dark" as often portrayed, were inevitable with the collapse of central authority with nothing to replace it, but our progress would definitely have been much faster if that knowledge had survived. 

 

Dave

[Don Richard]

We have been visited by an Alien, about 2015 years ago.

[Nismo]

Aliens do exist.

 

12 men have walked on the Moon. The first known Alien is Neil Armstrong.

 

[Travis In Austin]

We have been visited by an Alien, about 2015 years ago.

But if the Creator sent him, 2015 years ago, was he technically an alien? When he returns will he be an alien?

[Don Richard]

 

We have been visited by an Alien, about 2015 years ago.

But if the Creator sent him, 2015 years ago, was he technically an alien? When he returns will he be an alien?

 

 

He was not from here, so....

[Jim Naseum]

Is interstellar space travel even possible?

 

Here's what makes it tantalizing: The communication between quantum particles ACROSS the universe, in ZERO time. Quantum entanglement.