Bun Warmer question (if you're knowledgeable on plumbing, read on)

[Coytee]

Game plan is to fix today.  Just tired and don't want to tear into it.

 

Got the MAP gas, got the copper, just not the desire yet.  (it's been sitting there for 2 years unused, won't bother me if it sits a week more!!!)

 

My wife says this plumber was supposed to come back.

 

Had a half bathroom, she (while I was in Florida) rotated it.  Moved door to different wall, moved plumbing to different wall etc... 

 

Plumber was supposed to come back to "finish" that installation.

 

I got to looking at it 3 months ago and all that needed done was to cut the caps off, install shutoff and proceed from there.

 

She's told me that he was 'the worlds nicest guy' kind of stuff....  but.....also told me that he has yet to bill for his services which today, would be about three years old.

 

Seems he was going to come out and finish the bathroom (and do something on the opposite side of wall in the kitchen which isn't ready yet)

 

I might have thrown a wrench in his process when I came home.  I was completely capable of installing the shutoff valves and doing this upstairs.

 

I still find it hard to believe that today, after about three years, he's never billed her for anything.  (I'm taking her word on it)

 

No bill has come since I've been back from Florida (2 years)

 

My my, how time does fly.

[Travis In Austin]

I would turn that puppy 0ff and NOT use it untill corrected.

Case being, you are dealing with ceramics, if they are cold, and hot water comes into them, you have a pretty good idea what can happen.

Crack and expolde flooding everywhere.

I was wondering that myself but then thought ceramics could handle hot and cold just fine. I guess some ceramics are better suited for this than others?

[Travis In Austin]

From another site, same problem, but he mentions possibility of anti-sweat valve can cause warm water to fill and tank and to check for that first.

Richard,

General questions:

1. I noticed that the bathroom was remodeled three years ago. Is this the first time that this problem (if it is a problem) has surfaced.

2. Is the water in the tank, actually warm or hot. You indicated warm. Warm is a classic sign of anti-sweat fixture being installed.

I would recommend you do a follow up inspection on this situation. Things to check for:

1. Shut off the main hot water supply. Flush the toilet. If it fills with cold water only, then this would be a strong indicator that there is a anti-sweat valve present. If it doesn't fill then the toilet is more than likely hooked up to the hot water supply line, especially if you turn the hot water back on and it fills (then, I would recommend to the client that the discrepancy be reviewed by a qualified contractor/plumber).

2. If you can, follow the water supply line to the toilet to determine its source.

3. Is there a anti-sweat valve installed. They are known to go bad. If the toilet is filling with Hot water (make sure you run the hot water in a nearby fixture, i.e. tub or sink first to ensure that the water is good and hot coming up to the bathroom, flush the toilet a couple of times and observe the water temperature coming in, being careful not to burn your hands). If the water entering the tank is very hot, try adjusting the anti-sweat valve. If adjustment is not successful more than likely a new anti-sweat valve is needed. Sometimes a good cleaning of the anti-sweat valve system (i.e. particle build up from solder, hard water, etc. ), may be the only thing required. In this instance you should recommend that a qualified contractor/plumber be consulted.

Doing these things may be beyond the scope of a Home Inspector, especially if the plumbing is within the walls/floors. Anti-sweat or mixing valves are normally in sight. Occassionally the plumber/contractor will put them in a wall with an access panel. However seeing as how the client is your mother....

Please let us know how you made out.

John Bowman

[CECAA850]

Re plumb (or have the plumber) everything, no question.

 

 

I wish I was closer, I'd come over and do it for you.  Thanks for making me feel better though, you have a bathroom project that's been going on longer than mine.

[ZEUS121996]

I hope you don't have one of these.

Derrick

You beat me to it LOL

 

Mark

[Coytee]

Re plumb (or have the plumber) everything, no question.

 

 

I wish I was closer, I'd come over and do it for you.  Thanks for making me feel better though, you have a bathroom project that's been going on longer than mine.

 

 

 

My role in life is to keep my amps in my car longer than you and keep my toilet out of commission longer than you.  I want to see which of us can hold it in longer.  

 

Just got back from town to buy some fittings.  Went upstairs earlier to scope it out.  Had to move things out of the shower (open walls & plywood floor) that we put IN there while the tile went down.

 

Looks like one of the pipes is too close to a stud to use my tiny pipe cutter.  I'm not going to pull out the Sawzall.  Instead, I'm going to notch the stud so the pipe cutter has room to rotate.

 

Couple street elbows, couple street 45's and a couple standard elbows & 45's, I should have any mix of parts I need to criss cross.

 

About ready to make lunch and then take a nap, doing this tomorrow 

[Pete H]

Is your sink correct?  Where does the toilet water T into the hot side and is that accessible?  Copper is such a PITA, for the average homeowner to work on, but you can still cut out the problem area and install shark bites to make it an easier process.  Where exactly did the problem happen, or is that not accessible? .A picture or two might help to get better advise. 

[minermark]

 

I would turn that puppy 0ff and NOT use it untill corrected.

Case being, you are dealing with ceramics, if they are cold, and hot water comes into them, you have a pretty good idea what can happen.

Crack and expolde flooding everywhere.

I was wondering that myself but then thought ceramics could handle hot and cold just fine. I guess some ceramics are better suited for this than others?

 

I would not take the chance, the option being flooded house and "New" toilet.

[Coytee]

I wasn't really looking for much advice.  More just bit***ng and moaning on yet another thing on the to-do list.  I am however, tickled that we discovered this PRIOR to the shower going behind tile.  It's all currently wide open.  Made it much easier to fix (it's fixed now.  I'm keeping an eye on it for leaks)

 

I've replumbed most of the basement amongst some other things so I'm not terribly concerned about doing it nor leaks.

 

I'm on a well (over 100 gallons/minute flow).  When I was making the downstairs shower, I decided I wanted to really do it up.  I yanked out all the 1/2" copper going to it and replaced it all with 3/4" copper.  Spent something like $2,500 to get the shower head, body sprays and hand held ALL with 3/4" connections and valves.  It is 3/4" through and through.

 

As we were telling the gal what we (I) wanted to do, she started laughing and asked if I was building a car wash.

 

I'm here to tell you though.....  you get into this shower and you really don't want to leave.  It's exactly what I was shooting for.  I decided to swap my perfectly good water heater from a 50 gal to an 80 because I knew my showers were going to go from 5 minutes to 15!!

 

Excellent flow, hot as you want it and good pressure.  I've stopped using the upstairs shower and traipse downstairs to use this one.  Once this new shower is done, I don't know that I'll use it too much either.

 

Freaking home run with the basement shower.  Grand slam.  It's spoiled me.

[Coytee]

Oh, and the sink is across the room.  Haven't hooked it up yet so frankly, I don't know how it's plumbed.  I'm now guessing it's backwards too however, if that is correct, I'll just swap the supply lines from the shutoff valves to the faucet.  Won't be a big deal there.

[Ceptorman]

I wasn't really looking for much advice.  More just bit***ng and moaning on yet another thing on the to-do list.  I am however, tickled that we discovered this PRIOR to the shower going behind tile.  It's all currently wide open.  Made it much easier to fix (it's fixed now.  I'm keeping an eye on it for leaks)

 

I've replumbed most of the basement amongst some other things so I'm not terribly concerned about doing it nor leaks.

 

I'm on a well (over 100 gallons/minute flow).  When I was making the downstairs shower, I decided I wanted to really do it up.  I yanked out all the 1/2" copper going to it and replaced it all with 3/4" copper.  Spent something like $2,500 to get the shower head, body sprays and hand held ALL with 3/4" connections and valves.  It is 3/4" through and through.

 

As we were telling the gal what we (I) wanted to do, she started laughing and asked if I was building a car wash.

 

I'm here to tell you though.....  you get into this shower and you really don't want to leave.  It's exactly what I was shooting for.  I decided to swap my perfectly good water heater from a 50 gal to an 80 because I knew my showers were going to go from 5 minutes to 15!!

 

Excellent flow, hot as you want it and good pressure.  I've stopped using the upstairs shower and traipse downstairs to use this one.  Once this new shower is done, I don't know that I'll use it too much either.

 

Freaking home run with the basement shower.  Grand slam.  It's spoiled me.

100 gallons a minute! Is that a typo? 10 gallons a minute maybe. 

100 gallons a minute is over 1.5 gallons per second. That's a lot of water.

[MercedesBerater]

You just have a very high end and exotic 'Asscial' toilet now. Have you had a facial? It's like that... But for your a$$.

[CECAA850]

Glad you got it fixed, that would have driven me crazy.

[Coytee]

 

I'm on a well (over 100 gallons/minute flow).

100 gallons a minute! Is that a typo? 10 gallons a minute maybe. 

100 gallons a minute is over 1.5 gallons per second. That's a lot of water.

 

 

Yeah, I'm talking about the recovery rate of the well underground.  Seems when they hit water, it came gushing out the top of the drilling rig like a wild oil rig gone amuck.  Recovery rate of the well is actually a bit over 100 gallons/minute and, I have 90' of water above my pump.  I doubt I've ever put a dent into the water height from anything I've done.  (edited to add)  I happen to live in an area where there is/was an underground spring.  This spring water used to flow into the river (on a hill) and they had a water wheel spinning on it.  (this is 50 or more years ago).  Today, there's a lake thanks to a dam so all this is now under water.  We're guessing they hit the underground spring when they hit our well.  Uncle in law next door and father in law two doors down have a well refill rate of something like 5 or 10 gallons/minute.  Just amazes me the difference 400 feet can make!!

 

My flow into the house (as best I could calculate with a measuring cup, bucket and stopwatch) is approaching 30 gallons/minute.

 

Water access isn't one of my concerns.  I was told I could supply something like 15 houses on my single well.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Coytee

[Coytee]

Glad you got it fixed, that would have driven me crazy.

 

 

You were just tired of holding it in

[CECAA850]

[BigStewMan]

Guess Coytee is not on the hot seat anymore.

[Pete H]

The only issue with running all 3/4 lines is the restrictions that are placed on all the fixtures you purchase. I did the same thing for my kitchen sink and have to purchase a faucet that is made in a country that doesn't have EPA restrictions on flow rate. 100 GPM would be the highest well flow that I've ever seen and I do wells on my projects all the time. Do you have a flow restriction valve on that rig? Guess you don't need a pressure washer. LOL glad you got it worked out.

[Coytee]

I bought Grohe fixtures and they are all 3/4" input.  They all had little restrictor pieces in them but those mysteriously disappeared during installation... 

 

(I think they're made in Germany?)

 

All I know is it cost me a small fortune to get the oil rubbed bronze that the wife wanted.

 

I don't think I have any flow restriction on the well itself.

 

As I recall, the well bottom is around 400 feet down.  Water level is 300'.  Pump is 10' off the bottom.  Casing is (I think) six inches.  Flow is 103 or 107 gpm as per my installation report that was registered with whomever they register those things with.  I don't recall the HP of my pump but, once I actually realized what we had, I was a bit miffed that we didn't install a larger pump and perhaps a larger pipe (or a second pump higher up for lawn use).  I think but am not sure, that they used 3/4" pipe into the house although they might have used 1".  At the location where I can see it (pressure tank), I think it's 3/4".  It is definately 3/4" coming OUT of the tank because that is where I took over for the downstairs project.

 

When my pump or pressure tank give out, I'm going to probably install a larger pressure tank.  As it is, when we lose power (about once a week), if it doesn't come on pretty quick, we essentially have three flushes (now four with the new bathroom) before we run out of water.  A larger pressure tank might give a drink of water or two.

[Coytee]

Guess Coytee is not on the hot seat anymore.

 

Wife asked me if I've used it yet (no)

 

She said she loves it.  Seems it's a slightly higher seat than standard....so now, she really is queen of the throne!