Jeff Matthews Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I'm sure Dave will appreciate that it is much better for a trained phsycologist to prescribe the appropriate drugs and therapy to those who need it than a drug pusher. What if the trained psychologist (I am sure you meant psychiatrist) can't give you drugs that do the trick? There is a reason for the saying,m "He's off his meds again." Many of those drugs they prescribe are not really helping in the right way. They are inferior. People feel sick, "out of it," or even suicidal from the officially-endorsed drugs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) I'm sure Dave will appreciate that it is much better for a trained phsycologist to prescribe the appropriate drugs and therapy to those who need it than a drug pusher. What if the trained psychologist (I am sure you meant psychiatrist) can't give you drugs that do the trick? There is a reason for the saying,m "He's off his meds again." Many of those drugs they prescribe are not really helping in the right way. They are inferior. People feel sick, "out of it," or even suicidal from the officially-endorsed drugs. Yes I meant psychiatrist for the meds. Thank you. Maybe a licensed clinical social worker for everything else. Drugs and alcohol aren't necessarily bad things, but the use of them is an indication that there might be something wrong. There might be pain that needs healed. There might be mental illness and nobody gives a damn. When the young use drugs, and it makes the pain of life go away like magic, it has a powerful pull on them. The question shouldn't be who sold them the drugs, it should be what is the pain? If a person can self medicate better than a psychiatrist can medicate them then that means one of the following: The patient is a better psychiatrist than his psychiatrist The patient is not communicating well enough to the psychiatrist The psychiatrist is not communicating well enough to the patient The psychiatrist is incompetent The psychiatrist doesn't care enough The psychiatrist doesn't like the patient The psychiatrist is prescribing and getting kickbacks from pharma Drugs that help can only be obtained illegally MJ should probably be in a psychiatrist's arsenal. Edited February 13, 2016 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 And, they want these drugs in their arsenal. Many of them are very frustrated by not having access to psychedelics too. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 This is the kind of discussion the government should be having. Give the right people the tools they need to do their job. Weaken the underground by lifting the bans. Strengthen our mental health professionals by giving them the tools and the money to combat the problems effectively. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Naseum Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 This is the kind of discussion the government should be having. Give the right people the tools they need to do their job. Weaken the underground by lifting the bans. Strengthen our mental health professionals by giving them the tools and the money to combat the problems effectively.Sure, if they had any concern for the interests of citizens. But their interest lies with other allegiance. Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) You should understand that kids are now starting in 5th and 6th grade, and it is a DIFFERENT problem than the one you grew up with. As you have personal experience in a down side that I am not familiar with and I know and respect you I will not debate anything you've said. But I want to point out that I believe the above to be a result of the Federal crack down that reached its peak in Nixon's placing MJ as schedule one in spite of expert advice from his own commission and it having not a single one of the characteristics of the others. Kids have heard adults scoff at these laws and people on TV mock them for decades. Why should they listen to you or other counselors when it flies in the face of everything else they hear and experience? We weren't angels when I was a kid, but we respected the police, government, and our parents and teachers because we heard pretty much a single story from all of them. This whole WoD has destroyed all that. Legalization may not help right off the starting blocks but I firmly believe it will NOT make it worse. Eventually, with trust restored in authority it will make things better. Dave PS - While I speak as a moderator only for myself, I consider this to be a perfectly good topic. PLEASE keep politics out of it so it can remain a discussion of great interest to the nation as a whole. Edited February 13, 2016 by Mallette 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 On the medicinal side, benefits are way beyond anecdotal, as it's not just about getting high and participating with Jazz anymore. But that's just the thing. They need to reschedule MJ so proper research, at our best research hospitals and universities, with peer review, can take place. Our bodies are rife with cannabinoid receptors, they do modulate things (mood, pain, etc), and it demands proper study. There is no rational reason why MJ should be schedule 1. And the freakin' banking industry needs to get it together and serve the MJ businesses. Also related to the sched 1 situation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 On the medicinal side, benefits are way beyond anecdotal, as it's not just about getting high and participating with Jazz anymore. But that's just the thing. They need to reschedule MJ so proper research, at our best research hospitals and universities, with peer review, can take place. Our bodies are rife with cannabinoid receptors, they do modulate things (mood, pain, etc), and it demands proper study. And this is the key........ to fully dissect the properties of the drug so that we can understand how to best apply it contributions. There is a good and a dark side to recreational use of psychoactive drugs. When used with others, socially they can add positive dimensions to the overall experiences. When used alone to recede from troubles or stresses they become ineffective mental crutches that do not in any manner contribute to solving problems. I believe the world is at a point where advancement depends upon serious participation. Future generations have a sizable learning task ahead of them requiring mental acuity - not mental retardation. I suppose those who survive the wash will rise to the top. But will there be hordes of the lesser accomplished needing to be supported by those who succeed? Already we witness social stratification and its consequences. Tough and complex questions, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) ... PS - While I speak as a moderator only for myself, I consider this to be a perfectly good topic. PLEASE keep politics out of it so it can remain a discussion of great interest to the nation as a whole. There should not be finger pointing and blame. Unless I understand incorrectly, that is what you are talking about. What is done is done, and we can most definitely look at what science is saying and what other countries are having success with. Our government does need to be a part of the conversation, because it is them who have gone down the wrong path. The War on Drugs is a failure as has been defined by the government. Repeating the same behavior and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. There are many governments who have been successfully combating addiction while not empowering the drug underground. They are not locking up the young underprivileged and minorities as we are. This is a social win for them, and makes us look cruel and a bit silly. Perhaps we can still have a war on drugs, but it involves some of the things we have discussed. A war more on the reasons for drug abuse. Notice I called it drug abuse and not drug use. IMO, there is a big difference! Edited February 13, 2016 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Still the cheapest audio system upgrade too! I remember a time in the distant past, that a refrigerator sounded pretty good for about 10 (was probably 1) minutes until we realized the song was over. LMFAO (and doing it without weed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted February 13, 2016 It's all about Glaucoma prevention man, I got it covered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 It is unfortunate ill informed people just stereotype MJ users like Cheech and Chong or Snoop. Some testing has been done but there is lots of paid off information out there. Benefits have been shown in real unbiased testing including. Appetite in AIDS patients Nausea and vomiting in cancer patients and possible cancer fighting qualities. Epilepsy Alzheimer's Glaucoma Diabetes Nerve pain and chronic pain Multiple sclerosis And some i probably forgot. If MJ was removed from the class 1 schedule and more testing was available the sky is the limit to its uses. Helps very much with my aches and pains, no joke either. I have nerve damage in my left wrist and neck and arthritis in my hands not to mention all my issues and bore you death. Don't judge a book by its cover, it may be you, a close friend or family member that may benefit from its qualities someday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 And this is the key........ to fully dissect the properties of the drug so that we can understand how to best apply it contributions Largely something going on already for many thousands of years. As mentioned above there have to be reasons for those incredible number of receptors built into our bodies and people have made use of this blessing for untold eons. A war more on the reasons for drug abuse. Notice I called it drug abuse and not drug use. IMO, there is a big difference! Yes, there is. We don't put people in prison for being alcoholics unless they hurt someone else...then, it's for that crime not being victims of a disease. As to politics, I've seen none so far as I think we all know that the blame goes to all of them, not any single party or person. Anslinger and Hearst weren't politicians nor the goals political. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Future generations have a sizable learning task ahead of them requiring mental acuity - not mental retardation. I suppose those who survive the wash will rise to the top. But will there be hordes of the lesser accomplished needing to be supported by those who succeed? Already we witness social stratification and its consequences. Tough and complex questions, really. Tough, but not new at all. Social strata has always existed and always will. If a comfortable life is any indicator of using the right ingredients in the proper amounts, I'd say whatever we're mixing right now is a pretty good recipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Good reading.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-influence/real-reasons-marijuana-is-banned_b_9210248.html A bit inaccurate and one-sided but whatever. I've been following the Marijuana debates on C-SPAN. A much different light is painted there, but then a balanced perspective doesn't make for a good news article. That said, I'd rather see marijuana legalized before alcohol and cigarettes.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Future generations have a sizable learning task ahead of them requiring mental acuity - not mental retardation. I suppose those who survive the wash will rise to the top. But will there be hordes of the lesser accomplished needing to be supported by those who succeed? Already we witness social stratification and its consequences. Tough and complex questions, really. Tough, but not new at all. Social strata has always existed and always will. If a comfortable life is any indicator of using the right ingredients in the proper amounts, I'd say whatever we're mixing right now is a pretty good recipe. I'd say what we're mixing now is marginal to unravelling. Add a new layer of inebriate fog into the blend and who knows what'll occur. IMHO we need to be adopting behaviors understood to enhance the human condition and I remain unconvinced that easy access to MJ is such a swell idea. Imagine visiting the grand kids and finding them sloppy stoned glued to their electronic games - week in and week out. I dunno - I s'pose if they churn out good grades, can be articulate and informed, objective, etc.......... that being in a chronic state of giggly jello makes little difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Imagine visiting the grand kids and finding them sloppy stoned glued to their electronic games - week in and week out. I kind-of figure that if they wanted to be high and play games, they are going to find a way to do that. I don't think MJ makes them do it. If you took away MJ from society, they'd find the next best thing. Correlation does not mean cause. What I think an accurate study would reveal, if one could ever be had, is the opposite. People of a certain type gravitate to certain activities. Edited February 13, 2016 by Jeff Matthews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 A bit inaccurate and one-sided but whatever Not a thing in their that isn't consistent with MJ history and science. What is inaccurate and one-sided? This was news to me, and I love it: This is why, in 2006, a young man in Colorado called Mason Tvert issued a challenge to the then-mayor of Denver and eventual governor, John Hickenlooper. Hickenlooper owned brew-pubs selling alcohol across the state, and it made him rich. But he said cannabis was harmful and had to be banned. So Mason issued him a challenge -- to a duel. You bring a crate of booze. I'll bring a pack of joints. For every hit of booze you take, I'll take a hit of cannabis. We'll see who dies first. It was the ultimate High Noon. Mason went on to lead the campaign to legalize cannabis in his state. His fellow citizens voted to do it -- by 55 percent. Now adults can buy cannabis legally, in licensed stores, where they are taxed--and the money is used to build schools. After a year and a half of seeing this system in practice, support for legalization has risen to 69 percent. And even Governor Hickenlooper has started calling it "common sense." In deference to wvu80 and not having seen any science to refute or deny his experience with children, I'll qualify this by applying it only to adults: There is no known downside to MJ. No deaths have ever been reported. I contains no addictive substances. It either fights (still not proven, but many reports) cancer or doesn't cause it (known). Probably bad for asthmatics, but no more so than burning leaves. Here's the verdict from the classic book "A Child's Garden of Grass" from 1975 or so, and it still holds: Chapter: The Dangers of Marijuana Complete text: Getting busted. In another chapter, it also states that MJ MAY be fatal if you eat 100 lbs at once. Dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) All that nonsense about marijuana being stronger than it used to be gives me a good laugh as well. Maybe the good stuff is more readily available and sure there is newer strains but it was around when i was younger. Thai stick Maui wowi Sensimilla Just to name a few. You just don't smoke as much of it to get where you want to be. For instance you would not drink 6-12 Oz cans of Bourbon to catch a buzz would you. I for one would rather see one of my kids smoke a little weed than drink alcohol or pop a slurry of pills from the medicine cabinet or any of the other stupid things kids do to get high. Would i rather them not do anything ? Yes of course but many kids are going to bend to peer pressure and as a parent know you cannot be everywhere at once to keep them out of harms way. Edited February 13, 2016 by jason str 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 "Thai stick" was dipped in opium, or at least that was what I was once told. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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