Wolfbane Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I've read this story on a few sites today. I know it's not a new discussion, but it appears to be going to trial now. I'm guessing a settlement will come of it, but it's at least an interesting topic. I think there are similarities, but I'm not an attorney and I don't know how "close" a song has to be legally - I guess that's where the jury comes in. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/12/led-zeppelin-members-face-trial-in-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-infringement-lawsuit/ It is fascinating. Thicke had to pay Marvin Gaye estate over 7 million and split future royalties. StH has hade something like 600 million. Not sure how much of that is publishing royalties, which Spirit wiuld be entitled to some portion of if they prevail. If you are interested in these types of cases you should check this place out. http://mcir.usc.edu/purpose/Pages/default.html The actual cases, what the courts look at, how they decide what the split should be, etc. I believe if they were to prevail, under California Law they would only be entitled to some portion of go-forward royalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2016 B.S. get over it. Even if Zeppelin ripped it off, they a did a better job with it and for the that Spirit is just pissed. That isn't the issue, the issue is whether they are entitled to a partial song writing credit for the song intro. Led Zeppelin has lost/settled a couple of prior cases for plagiarism of old blues riffs and lyrics without giving proper credit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2016 I've read this story on a few sites today. I know it's not a new discussion, but it appears to be going to trial now. I'm guessing a settlement will come of it, but it's at least an interesting topic. I think there are similarities, but I'm not an attorney and I don't know how "close" a song has to be legally - I guess that's where the jury comes in. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/12/led-zeppelin-members-face-trial-in-stairway-to-heaven-copyright-infringement-lawsuit/ It is fascinating.Thicke had to pay Marvin Gaye estate over 7 million and split future royalties. StH has hade something like 600 million. Not sure how much of that is publishing royalties, which Spirit wiuld be entitled to some portion of if they prevail. If you are interested in these types of cases you should check this place out. http://mcir.usc.edu/purpose/Pages/default.html The actual cases, what the courts look at, how they decide what the split should be, etc. I believe if they were to prevail, under California Law they would only be entitled to some portion of go-forward royalty. It isn't under California law, it's federal copyright, that's why it's in federal court. They are limited to three years prior to the date of filing suit. I am not sure when they filed, but I think I remember something like '97. If they prevail they are entitled to recover whatever portion on the single, the lp, and if judge thinks StH boosted sales of lp, a portion of total lp profits, sheet music, and mechanical royalties. Even if the court finds 5%, and it is ten years, I wouldnthink it would be in the tens of millions. Which is why it will probably settle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2016 Obviously a judge has decided there's merit to the lawsuit. Interested that the two bands actually toured TOGETHER for two years. Then a year or so later and "BAM" you got Stairway To Heaven. The riff is what it is and tt is basically the same between the two songs. Should be interesting. Page and Plant testified they never played any shows together. Surviving members of Spirit testified that they played at least two festivals together and Led Zeppelin was in the front row watching them perform. That's a problem for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2016 No sour grapes there. What did Spirit go on to do that Zep didn't? The families of many deceased classical composers could sue lots of modern songwriters with such a puny standard. Everything prior to 1923 is public domain. Afterwards it is life if composer plus 70 years. It all derives from Mickey Mouse. Everytime MM gets close to being in the public domain Congress extends the Copyright length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebuy Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 My Sweet Lord--Are we going though this again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2016 I can never get the search engine here to find anything, but somewhere there is a thread on this, or at least a thread on the top ten bands who ripped off other bands' songs.I figured as much as this is not a new story (other than it appears to be heading to a jury trial now), I'm sure a study could be made on this throughout the last 60 years. I don't have a strong opinion either way, it just caught my eye that such a legendary band is going to be brought to a trial over this after this many years. I don't think it will matter to fans one way or another. I think duder hit the nail on the head that they did a better job with it and that's what will matter to most. Most, but not if you're the child of Randy California and you saw an interview where your father said they never bothered to even thank him or credit him for the intro. Plant and Page claim they never played with Spirit, Spirit members testified, "ih yes you did." Depending on who is more credible on that I think is going to determine how people react to the outcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 13, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2016 The way I understand it the judge just thinks he's not the best guy to decide. The opening licks have many variations, it starts similar but changes a lot pretty quick. The feel of the song may be similar in some sense but it'a a very different song to my ears. I'm sure every song every artist ever done is based on life experience and what they have heard. Zeppelin did not invent Rock/Blues music, they just made it better than anyone ever (disclaimer) I consider Zeppelin the best band ever, just imo. If you steal one line of kyric, you owe a partial credit. If you use someone elses intro, you owe a partial credit for that. LZ tied to get out on a Summary Judgement, and you are correct, jusge said that there is enough to let a jury decide. LZ has already paid on at least two other songs where they used lyrics from old time blues artists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Hmm. I hear the similar chord progression from Page, but is a stretch and progression is all over the place in music. How many times have you had the radio on (back in the good old days) and hear an intro and think its one song and ended up being another? It will take a court of California today and not one of yesteryear to throw the axe at LZ. Having said that, who thinks they could get away with something even remotely minute to Stairway today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Everytime MM gets close to being in the public domain Congress extends the Copyright length. That's disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Ooh, it makes me wonderOoh, it really makes me wonder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I thought spirit was an OK band, maybe a 5 on a 1-10. They, none of them ever had a Stairway in em' IMO. And yes, we all hear a riff and think it's another song occasionally. There are only so many notes, chords and ways to arrange them. It would be great if a potential jury was made up of musicians....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted April 13, 2016 Author Share Posted April 13, 2016 I can never get the search engine here to find anything, but somewhere there is a thread on this, or at least a thread on the top ten bands who ripped off other bands' songs.I figured as much as this is not a new story (other than it appears to be heading to a jury trial now), I'm sure a study could be made on this throughout the last 60 years. I don't have a strong opinion either way, it just caught my eye that such a legendary band is going to be brought to a trial over this after this many years. I don't think it will matter to fans one way or another. I think duder hit the nail on the head that they did a better job with it and that's what will matter to most. Most, but not if you're the child of Randy California and you saw an interview where your father said they never bothered to even thank him or credit him for the intro. Plant and Page claim they never played with Spirit, Spirit members testified, "ih yes you did." Depending on who is more credible on that I think is going to determine how people react to the outcome. Well said and I agree! I'm thinking in terms of the masses for the statement. The law, in theory will only consider the law (*cough MM exemption!*) not public opinion. If it were my dads song I'd want a cut. I understand the differences of opinion on whether or not it's copied, like I said I don't personally feel that strongly one way or another on this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I thought spirit was an OK band, maybe a 5 on a 1-10. They, none of them ever had a Stairway in em' IMO. And yes, we all hear a riff and think it's another song occasionally. There are only so many notes, chords and ways to arrange them. It would be great if a potential jury was made up of musicians....... The first thing they ask a potential juror is if they are a musician or a music teacher then they say "no way" on this jury. We want a jury full of dummies. JJK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) from the link: "Many other versions of Taurus tab are incorrectly posted on the web with thefirst 4 bars of Stairway to Heaven tab. These 2 songs, based on a commonlyused A minor descending chromatic walk are vastly different in composition and complexity.Only an amateur would confuse them for the same song." http://www.guitaretab.com/s/spirit/61731.html Edited April 13, 2016 by oldtimer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 wonder if the jury will have to listen to it backwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldred Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 wonder if the jury will have to listen to it backwards That one made me laugh...... Come. . On... It's Fricken Stairway to Heaven........ Spirit..... They have... . Nature's Way..... WT...... F G.E.M 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 .nevaeh ot yawriats eht gniyub s'ehs dnA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted April 14, 2016 Moderators Share Posted April 14, 2016 I found this article to be balanced and fairly comprehensive. Yes, Led Zeppelin took from other people's records – but then they transformed them http://flip.it/VULsI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted April 14, 2016 Author Share Posted April 14, 2016 wonder if the jury will have to listen to it backwards. This is brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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